Baptism

[Everlasting-Grace]

You insist on setting up straw me.... those verses also don't mention faith, or believing... or, gasp, grace..... so I suppose in your world that means they are not required, either? To quote the brilliant Joe Biden...... c'mon, man....

it does nto mention faith or believe?

can you tell me why the people did not look up to the serpent to be saved when moses lifted it up? Could it be they did nto have faith or believe it would save them?

Did jesus not say he would be lifted up. that whoever believes (has faith) will never die. but has eternal life (born again)

did it not say he who believes is not condemned

did John the baptist not say he who believes (has faith)

is grace not unmerited.. so s it not in the text that this gift of life and being born again which was paid for by the blood of Christ is by grace?

If Baptism was required. Jesus would have told Nicodemus, the fact he did not proves its not required.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Don't forget the flood waters! Nobody saved got wet then, either.

Amen!

 

[hornetguy]

No he does not

thats why in acts 2 he did nto say be baptized to be saved.. in which he also would have directly contradicted christ in John 3

In your opinion, when does one receive the Holy Spirit?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

In your opinion, when does one receive the Holy Spirit?

Just like Peter said

repent, and you will recieve the gift of the spirit

This command was given to everyone, and the offer of the gift was given to everyone

only a select group of people were told to be baptised.

Thats the part you will not look up.

A person recieves the Holy Spirit when they are born again.. and jesus tells us how that happens in John 3. not one mention of water baptism, because it is not required.

 

[hornetguy]

Don't forget the flood waters! Nobody saved got wet then, either.

But, sis, the comparison to Noah was simply to point out that Noah was saved through the "washing" of the world of the flood... his family was saved through that washing.
Baptism was compared to that washing with water, and baptism has always been an immersion in water.
Otherwise, we could just throw a glass full of water past someone and say they were "baptized"....

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

In your opinion, when does one receive the Holy Spirit?

Ephesians 1:13

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

again, no water baptism involved

 

[Pilgrimshope]

We need to be very clear regarding this critical matter. Repentance is for the remission of sins. Baptism confirms this. Repentance is internal, while baptism is external. Water does NOT wash away sins. It is the blood of Christ that does so. And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (Rev 1:5)

So it is erroneous to claim that baptism is for the remission of sins. And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47). Those are the words of Christ Himself and He is careful not to include the word "baptism".

yeah we should just accept what scriptire says and not invent reasons not to

baptism is established here it’s purpose this man was sent by God

“There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He came to fulfill prophecy in oreperstion for Christ see Malachi 3:1 god sent him to do this

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.



….and preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. ( he’s talking about Jesus )

I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-2, 4, 7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

water and spirit says John

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus comes after John is imprisoned saying water and spirit

a Jesus says before he died

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭K

jesus says after he is raised up

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-

Jesus explaining what John had said

“and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A few days later

“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:4, 17, 32-33, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the first thing Peter offers baptism for repentance and remission of sins promising reception of the Holy Ghost just like John had promised

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

john was doing this

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

And promising this after

indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”


peter was saying this

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

at he only difference is John was speaking before the gospel had been accomplished the apostles were speaking after it was fulfilled that’s the only reason it seems different

ashen the apostles are talking about baptism in the epistles it’s speaking about the same baptism that Jesus and all his apostles partook of the only baptism ever established by God when he sent John the Baptist to prepare the world for Jesus Christ by giving the knowledge of remission of sins

there’s just one baptism there is what we do which is an act of faith , because faith without the action is dead and then there’s the promise Jesus made to give us his spirit baptism is just baptism the holy ghost is a promise to believers ot can also happen in this order

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they already received the holy spirit because they believed what he was saying about Jesus then Peter immediately commands baptism in water for remission of sins

The reason is because baptism is established by God for remission of sins of those who believe Jesus died for those sins and was raised again the third day that’s what baptism is about the death and resurrection of Jesus and the believer acting upon thier belief

here is no secret baptism where no one does anything or no action is taken faith is never like that it’s always about hearing what God said and th e promose he made and acting because you hear and believe baptism is exactly like this

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt. And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“believe the gospel and be baptized and ye shall be saved “

its really important that we don’t hear clearly and the. Dismiss what the scripture actually says brother instead we’re meant to let it sink in once we inderersnd baptism is just what the Bible always said it is then all the writings about baptism make sense like Roman’s 6-8 or Galatians 3 but when we hear what’s there and reject it explain it away we’re never going to really understand it all of our answers are written down and made really clear in scripture baptism is just a basic

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

But, sis, the comparison to Noah was simply to point out that Noah was saved through the "washing" of the world of the flood... his family was saved through that washing.
Baptism was compared to that washing with water, and baptism has always been an immersion in water.
Otherwise, we could just throw a glass full of water past someone and say they were "baptized"....

actually your right. water baptism is just like it

they both represent what God did with his resurrection..

 

[hornetguy]

Just like Peter said

repent, and you will recieve the gift of the spirit

Um..... you conveniently left out "be baptized" which, I believe is your primary intention.... to leave it out. Is that not "taking away from scripture" ?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

its really important that we don’t hear clearly and the. Dismiss what the scripture actually says brother instead we’re meant to let it sink in once we inderersnd baptism is just what the Bible always said it is then all the writings about baptism make sense like Roman’s 6-8 or Galatians 3 but when we hear what’s there and reject it explain it away we’re never going to really understand it all of our answers are written down and made really clear in scripture baptism is just a basic

The reason romans and 1 cor do not make sense is because people add water where no water is involved.

if water is involved, it would literally say baptized in water in his death

baptized in water in christ

now that is confusing

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Um..... you conveniently left out "be baptized" which, I believe is your primary intention.... to leave it out. Is that not "taking away from scripture" ?

Um no I did not

the gift of the holy spirit is 2nd person plural. it matches with repent which is also second person plural

baptism is 3rd person singular. the gift of the HS does not relate to that, rules of language forbid it

again, the rules of language must be maintained.

Peter did not say everyone repent , and let him be baptized. and every one will recieve the gift of the HS. that does not make sense..but that is what the language would persist to say if we look at it the way you are

 

[Cameron143]

Being baptized into Christ is a spiritual phenomenon. Being baptized in water is a physical exercise. Always in the Bible, performing a physical activity was meant to picture an inward reality. Romans 1:20 teaches that the things that are seen reveal to us the invisible things of God.

 

[hornetguy]

And, I'm going to leave this pointless back and forth... it is gaining us nothing. I have more useful things to do.... blessings on you all.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I assume that you are talking about water baptism. It is not a man made ritual, however, neither is it essential to forgiveness of sins. We get baptised because we are forgiven. Baptism signifies death to world, an important step in progress in the Christian life.

Suppose a believer dies before he is baptised? Some Australians on death row were saved in an Indonesian prison. The authorities refused permission for them to be baptised before they were executed. Are they in hell? No way. How about the ignorant? I knew nothing of baptism for months after I was born again. I know that I was forgiven and accepted by God as His child (John 1:12).

The idea of baptisimal regeneration is a fine example of how not to interpret scripture. It takes a few verses out of context and makes a false doctrine out of them. Believers should be baptised, but that does not mean that they must. We are still saved by God's grace, not by what we do.

“I assume that you are talking about water baptism. It is not a man made ritual, however, neither is it essential to forgiveness of sins”

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So God just established baptism for repentance and remission of sins but it’s not necassary for repentance and remission of sins ?

“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then

Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:37-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It seems like it’s important to the people in the Bible maybe “ water baptism “ was t what they kept doing because it’s irrelevant now magically ? But wait

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

phillip must have been confused and practicing this irrelevant “ (water baptism “ that God established by the way )

maybe Peter would know bettter than to use “ water baptism “ since he was filled with the Holy Ghost certainly gentiles don’t need that darn “ water baptism “

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

at what point do we just acknolwedge that baptism is baptism ? And then start learning about it in places like this ?

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or this which you say doesnt apply

“buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭

Or this

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27, 29‬ ‭

nstead it seems like we just can’t accept what baptism even is even though it’s established thoroughly and clearly. We can’t learn anything if we don’t accept the basics that are so plainly stated

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Being baptized into Christ is a spiritual phenomenon. Being baptized in water is a physical exercise. Always in the Bible, performing a physical activity was meant to picture an inward reality. Romans 1:20 teaches that the things that are seen reveal to us the invisible things of God.

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.

And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what’s going to be the result of this ? If we hear and believe it ? Or if we don’t believe it ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;


but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The reason romans and 1 cor do not make sense is because people add water where no water is involved.

if water is involved, it would literally say baptized in water in his death

baptized in water in christ

now that is confusing

“The reason romans and 1 cor do not make sense is because people add water where no water is involved.”

At what point is water not involved in baptism ?

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a maybe gentiles ?

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭

There’s absolutely no scriptire in the Bible that ever says baptism isn’t necassary ornos t done in water I mean if we’re just saying things is one thing but in a Bible discussion forum shouldnt we talk about what the Bible says ?

it seems like there’s no question that water is involved in baptism I mean from John to Phillip to Peter maybe Peter and Phillip didn’t understand the new age hypergrace where no one needs to do what Jesus said will save them

 

[Cameron143]

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.

And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what’s going to be the result of this ? If we hear and believe it ? Or if we don’t believe it ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;


but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The darkness was real. It symbolized the spiritual darkness that had spread over the land since the days of Joseph. It also pictured the looming judgment that would soon come.

 

[DJT_47]

But, sis, the comparison to Noah was simply to point out that Noah was saved through the "washing" of the world of the flood... his family was saved through that washing.
Baptism was compared to that washing with water, and baptism has always been an immersion in water.
Otherwise, we could just throw a glass full of water past someone and say they were "baptized"....

Can't reason with unreasonable people. You're wasting your time hornetguy. Fools shall be what they are. God bless

 

[Cameron143]

Can't reason with unreasonable people. You're wasting your time hornetguy. Fools shall be what they are. God bless

But you can raisin with grapes.

 

[Nehemiah6]

“There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.” ‭‭John‬ ‭1:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There was also a man sent by God who was Jesus of Nazareth, and who superseded John. His baptism would be two-fold -- He would baptize with the Holy Ghost and then require water baptism.