Can there be forgiveness without repentance?
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You absolutely have to repent to be saved, as clearly discussed so far, Jesus says so. To say repentance isn't necessary is to completely contradict what Jesus says about the matter. Besides that iron clad case for repentance, could you even picture anyone who wasn't repentant for the things they've done even coming to Jesus in the first place? I honestly can't picture in my head how that could ever work in the first place. I testify by what He's graced me with, and opened my eye's to, the truth that salvation couldn't happen without repentance logically or rationally. I want to be clear that I do NOT believe this happens the same way in all of us as far as "exact words or thoughts", I mean that in the way that I came to repentance, at a time when I thought I knew what being a Christian was. I repeated the prayer, I went and got baptized, I was declared to be saved by a pastor, I even attended church and all that. I was not saved.
God brought me to my knees while I'd already thought I'd "done that" and found that it didn't help when things got real tough. After trying to shoulder the world myself, I wanted to kill myself for 2 solid years everyday. I lost the use of my right arm in a motorcycle accident and couldn't handle it. 1 thing kept me from killing myself. I had 2 sons that I couldn't leave with "my dad killed himself". I knew that no one that tried to step up in my place could ever love my boys like their father. Sounds noble now, but to me then I was just stuck in life. It sucked. After 2 years of this nonstop it all came to a head. If I had ever believed in God before, when I hit my knees I did not. I didn't cry out Jesus, or God I need you. When I hit my knees I said, "I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, world you win, I lose and I quit". I picked myself up off the floor and went to bed. The next day I woke up brand new. I'd love to share more, but wasn't trying to make a super long post, or make it about "me", my point was made with this one part. I just wanted to make it clear that I believe YES repentance is a necessity, however how that repentance happens can look many ways and is between that person and God.
God brought me to my knees while I'd already thought I'd "done that" and found that it didn't help when things got real tough. After trying to shoulder the world myself, I wanted to kill myself for 2 solid years everyday. I lost the use of my right arm in a motorcycle accident and couldn't handle it. 1 thing kept me from killing myself. I had 2 sons that I couldn't leave with "my dad killed himself". I knew that no one that tried to step up in my place could ever love my boys like their father. Sounds noble now, but to me then I was just stuck in life. It sucked. After 2 years of this nonstop it all came to a head. If I had ever believed in God before, when I hit my knees I did not. I didn't cry out Jesus, or God I need you. When I hit my knees I said, "I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, world you win, I lose and I quit". I picked myself up off the floor and went to bed. The next day I woke up brand new. I'd love to share more, but wasn't trying to make a super long post, or make it about "me", my point was made with this one part. I just wanted to make it clear that I believe YES repentance is a necessity, however how that repentance happens can look many ways and is between that person and God.
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"1 thing kept me from killing myself. I had 2 sons that I couldn't leave with "my dad killed himself" That I understand. Many Christian don't understand it takes a person of an event in your life to change or keep you going. I got so fed up with Christians saying, "All you need is Jesus" to someone in pain.
We are commanded to forgive others. Obedience to the command actually affects us. If we don't forgive God will not forgive us.
Forgiving others is a choice. Those who forgive, regardless of an offender's willingness to repent, keep themselves from the grip of the enemy. Maintaining one's primary focus on God rather than the actions of those influenced by the enemy has the ability to keep people from being trapped in a prison of their own making; steeped in hatred, and ongoing grief.
God is well aware of the effects of unforgiveness on those He created. His command to forgive is for our protection:
Matt 6:14-15
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Mark 11:25-26
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Forgiving others is a choice. Those who forgive, regardless of an offender's willingness to repent, keep themselves from the grip of the enemy. Maintaining one's primary focus on God rather than the actions of those influenced by the enemy has the ability to keep people from being trapped in a prison of their own making; steeped in hatred, and ongoing grief.
God is well aware of the effects of unforgiveness on those He created. His command to forgive is for our protection:
Matt 6:14-15
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Mark 11:25-26
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
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You often hear Christians talk about “forgiving the unrepentant person.” They say, “You must do it for your own sake, so your life is not controlled by another person.”
But in asking you to forgive the unrepentant person, they’re asking you to do something that God Himself never does, and in the process, they’re changing the nature of what repentance is. God’s forgiveness always effects a restored relationship.
Forgiveness involves the reconciling of two people—one who repents and the other who forgives. , that it is a great mistake to tell people that they must forgive where there is no repentance.
But in asking you to forgive the unrepentant person, they’re asking you to do something that God Himself never does, and in the process, they’re changing the nature of what repentance is. God’s forgiveness always effects a restored relationship.
Forgiveness involves the reconciling of two people—one who repents and the other who forgives. , that it is a great mistake to tell people that they must forgive where there is no repentance.
You seem to believe that forgiveness is a transaction between people, which it is not. It’s the offended party surrendering judgment and retribution to God. Anyone who has had to forgive a dead person understands that.
Forgiveness is freeing for the offended party. It has no effect on the offender. Whether the offender ever repents is irrelevant.
Forgiveness is freeing for the offended party. It has no effect on the offender. Whether the offender ever repents is irrelevant.
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op: forgiveness?
Forgiving the 'murderer {repentant or not} who did them wrong' would be more
"for their own 'closure' of the matter, and 'moving on' with life," eh?
Confusion of two Different Bible contexts, solved 'Rightly Divided':
Covenants / Prophecy / Law for Israel:
Forgive others First, Then God Will Forgive!
(Matthew 6:14-15, 18:35; Mark 11:25-26; Luke 6:37)
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
Mystery/GRACE! For [ Already Forgiven members of ] The Body Of Christ:
"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another,
Even as God for Christ's Sake Hath Forgiven you." (Ephesians 4:32)
Amen.
Forgiving the 'murderer {repentant or not} who did them wrong' would be more
"for their own 'closure' of the matter, and 'moving on' with life," eh?
Confusion of two Different Bible contexts, solved 'Rightly Divided':
Covenants / Prophecy / Law for Israel:
Forgive others First, Then God Will Forgive!
(Matthew 6:14-15, 18:35; Mark 11:25-26; Luke 6:37)
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
Mystery/GRACE! For [ Already Forgiven members of ] The Body Of Christ:
"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another,
Even as God for Christ's Sake Hath Forgiven you." (Ephesians 4:32)
Amen.