Repent and be baptized, every one of you

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Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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...
You are replacing the baptism of God with the baptism of water.. Blasphemy
You are guilty of what you accuse me of; you assume.

I have repeatedly stated that being baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sin AND receiving the indwelling presence of God are to distinct experiences. Both are essential for salvation as scripture reveals.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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Note that Jesus differentiates between hearing the gospel, believing it, and being baptized. All detailed conversion records reveal this truth as well. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

Individuals are required to hear and respond to the gospel message that includes belief in Jesus, and obedience to baptism as Jesus words reveal:
"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15-16

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3:3, 5
once again

please show me the word baptize in john 3.

this is getting old.. I did not ask about any of the acts passages.. or mark 16. I want to see where Jesus told all those people in john they had to be baptized to get eternal life
 

Everlasting-Grace

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You are guilty of what you accuse me of; you assume.

I have repeatedly stated that being baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sin AND receiving the indwelling presence of God are to distinct experiences. Both are essential for salvation as scripture reveals.
Yuo can say it until you are blue in the face.

Saying water baptism is required for salvation is no different than say we must be physically circumcised to be saved.

They are both false gospels.. and both try to attribute to man the act of God.
 

Evmur

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It's called being obedient to God. If I hope to gain the knowledge that I am obeying God's command, it is not a work.
You can parse it all you want, but we were commanded to do it. Doing it does not make it a work, it makes it obedience.
Let me say this, not to argue with you [you're a fun bro to argue with ;)... I like you] but to make mebbe a different angle. I believe in water baptism and have been baptised.

But what IS John's baptism? what was it all about?

Wasn't he sent to prepare the way for Christ to come? to prepare the people to receive Christ?

But now Jesus has come, when we were born again He has come to us. We can never be closer to Him, never be more in Christ than we are now ,,, we can be baptized in the Holy Ghost with signs following ;) but we won't be more saved.

does this not circumvent baptism in water a little?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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It seems people are overlooking the very obvious.
Are we not all to do our best to imitate, rather tobe like Jesus Yeshua?

When He was baptized by John, and John protested that it was He Who should biptize him, Jesus Yeshua replied that it must bae so to complete all righteousness.

Are we not to attmpt to complete all righteousness with Him?

Having repeated thiss, I do not believe anyone who truly believes Jesus Yeshua will ever be condemned, but it is wonderful to know we can be just as He.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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He who hears my words...

Jesus is the author of eternal salvation unto those who obey Him. (Heb. 5:9) Hear and obey.

Romans 10-13 + Galatians 3:5~ Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you obey the law, or because you hear and believe?

:)
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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once again

please show me the word baptize in john 3.

this is getting old.. I did not ask about any of the acts passages.. or mark 16. I want to see where Jesus told all those people in john they had to be baptized to get eternal life
Receiving eternal life is not possible without the remission of sin, and it is not possible as well without receiving the indwelling presence of God. I have provided numerous scripture referencing these facts and you refuse to accept them. There is no need to continue this discussion. I have shared scripture that speaks for itself and only God can give revelation.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Receiving eternal life is not possible without the remission of sin, and it is not possible as well without receiving the indwelling presence of God. I have provided numerous scripture referencing these facts and you refuse to accept them. There is no need to continue this discussion. I have shared scripture that speaks for itself and only God can give revelation.
Sharing the things Paul taught about baptism is also a good place to start but the same won’t accept it either

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul came along preaching revelation to people who believed were baptized for remission of sins of how baptism effectively works by faith to remit our sins to n the body of Christ who die for our sins and was raised for our justification and what it means to us who were baptized in his name for remission of sins

“God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:2-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:….For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:10-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

One last example

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

of course we here of a different baptism

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

were meant to share in the same baptism and have the same God who spoke the same things and promise the same promises by his own words everything else is going to fail miserably in the end but if we would hear and believe him and what he said about salvation it’s going to be upheld forever

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

hornetguy

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Jan 18, 2016
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Let me say this, not to argue with you [you're a fun bro to argue with ;)... I like you] but to make mebbe a different angle. I believe in water baptism and have been baptised.

But what IS John's baptism? what was it all about?

Wasn't he sent to prepare the way for Christ to come? to prepare the people to receive Christ?

But now Jesus has come, when we were born again He has come to us. We can never be closer to Him, never be more in Christ than we are now ,,, we can be baptized in the Holy Ghost with signs following ;) but we won't be more saved.

does this not circumvent baptism in water a little?
I enjoy your comments as well... no arguments necessary. Discussions are better, IMO....
John's baptism was the precursor to Jesus' arrival and ministry. It paved the way, showing that believers in God should be baptized for forgiveness...
When Jesus came, died, and was resurrected, baptism was still for believers to do, but it took on new, added meaning. See what Peter said at Pentecost. There are several things that baptism "accomplishes", scripturally. It's for forgiveness of sins, it's also to allow you to receive the Holy Spirit.... and it's an appeal to God for a clear conscience, because of Jesus' resurrection. It also symbolizes our death to sin, our burial (in water) and our resurrection to a new life in Jesus..... just as Jesus death, burial, and resurrection. We are also saved through water baptism, just like Noah and family were saved through the "washing" of the flood...

It is also our visible acknowledgment that we have joined in the new covenant.... baptism is, to Christians, the same as circumcision was to the partakers in the old covenant....
 

hornetguy

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Jan 18, 2016
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it's also to allow you to receive the Holy Spirit....
"allow" is the wrong word to use here.... I think baptism "opens the door" for us to receive the Spirit, as Peter stated at Pentecost.
Personally, I believe we receive the indwelling Spirit when we are baptized, going by what Peter said.
 

Evmur

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"allow" is the wrong word to use here.... I think baptism "opens the door" for us to receive the Spirit, as Peter stated at Pentecost.
Personally, I believe we receive the indwelling Spirit when we are baptized, going by what Peter said.
THAT'S where I so-o disagree for Cornelius received the Holy Spirit [Peter later said] in exactly the way the disciples received Him at Pentecost. When I used the word circumvented I used it because in the case of Cornelius that seems to be exactly what God did in cutting in on Peter.

What is vital to salvation is confession, public confession that Jesus has become our Lord and baptism does seem to be a most excellent way to do that and it is such a jolly thing to do I don't really understand why folks don't want to do it.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
... did you see that "he that believeth and is baptised shall be saved but he that believeth not shall be damned"

He does not say "he that believeth not AND IS NOT BAPTISED" God does not omit that part by accident.
Thats because he that believeth not isnt going to be baptised, its self explanatory. He that believeth will be baptised and he who believeth not will naturally not be baptized.
 
Aug 27, 2023
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Thats because he that believeth not isnt going to be baptised, its self explanatory. He that believeth will be baptised and he who believeth not will naturally not be baptized.
Hello…
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Do you think this man was baptized?
 

Evmur

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Thats because he that believeth not isnt going to be baptised, its self explanatory. He that believeth will be baptised and he who believeth not will naturally not be baptized.
the church is full choc a bloc with folks baptised [christened] but unbelieving. Stalin was baptised.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
the church is full choc a bloc with folks baptised [christened] but unbelieving. Stalin was baptised.
So joseph stalin became an apostate.
That dont invalidate baptism the bible warns that there will be apostacy.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
Hello…
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Do you think this man was baptized?
Scripture doesnt tell us. The disciples of Jesus baptized many before that day.
Which doesnt even really matter because Jesus had yet to die, and be buried. Baptism burries you with Christ as Paul explained.
However Jesus was there to grant salvation to him in person, which makes him a bit of an exception. I dont think there is any scripture that makes any exception for anyone else.
I suppose if Jesus shows up and grants an exception to someone they to will be exempt from His word which he gave to us. However now since Jesus has given us a directive I think it very unwise and quite dangerous to refute the word He has given us.
 
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Also relevant to the experience in Acts 10 is the exchange about it between Peter and the Jews in Acts 11. Peter said who was I to withstand God AFTER seeing Cornelius and the others receive the Holy Ghost as well as we. (verse 17) Peter commanded Cornelius and others to submit to water baptism in the name of the Lord immediately AFTER they were indwelt by the Holy Ghost. (Acts 10:47-48) Peter's comment to the Jews indicates that neglecting to command obedience to water baptism would be to withstand the purposes of God. It was after Peter's explanation concerning Acts 10:43-48 that the Jews said that what occurred was proof that God had to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. (verse 18)

"And he (Cornelius) shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:13-18
Yes, Peter considered Cornelius not being baptized as a hindrance to God
And Paul tells us how in Romans 6 and Colossians 2

this is in addition to the importance baptism has for people, perhaps including even those who receive the Holy Spirit first, from Acts 2:38

also note, with regards to how "believe" was used by the apostles, what Paul assumed clearly in response to thinking these people believed in Jesus

Acts 19
1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interiora and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?”

“No,” they answered, “we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3“Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked.

“The baptism of John,” they replied.
now why would Paul assume this
 

hornetguy

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Jan 18, 2016
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THAT'S where I so-o disagree for Cornelius received the Holy Spirit [Peter later said] in exactly the way the disciples received Him at Pentecost. When I used the word circumvented I used it because in the case of Cornelius that seems to be exactly what God did in cutting in on Peter.

What is vital to salvation is confession, public confession that Jesus has become our Lord and baptism does seem to be a most excellent way to do that and it is such a jolly thing to do I don't really understand why folks don't want to do it.
Yes, it was different from the "normal" way... very specifically so.
It happened that way to prove to the Jewish Christians that Gentiles were acceptable to God, just as they were. In fact, Peter makes it pretty clear that's the reason why, in his statement...
“Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days."
The Jewish Christians didn't want to allow the Gentile believers to even be baptized, because they thought they were unaccepted by God. This is how God proved that they were wrong.
 

Evmur

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Yes, it was different from the "normal" way... very specifically so.
It happened that way to prove to the Jewish Christians that Gentiles were acceptable to God, just as they were. In fact, Peter makes it pretty clear that's the reason why, in his statement...
“Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days."
The Jewish Christians didn't want to allow the Gentile believers to even be baptized, because they thought they were unaccepted by God. This is how God proved that they were wrong.
But [I feel sure] you are not saying one who has been forgiven sins and born again but has not been water baptised even if that was by decision. You would not say such a one is not saved.