The misunderstood Book of James & parsing the covenants/dispensations.

[FlyingDove]

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(MY NOTE: ALL scripture is written for our LEARNING. ALL scripture isn't written for our DOCTRINE. Example related directly to the post: Are NT believers required to be circumcised, required to travel to the temple Mt & keep the feasts or keep all the Mosaic laws?)

Myles Coverdale; a Bible theologian/translator from the 1500’s. He wrote the Coverdale. Say's don't judge Scripture by what is spoken, or written only.

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.

Abrahamic covenant was based on the UNCONDITIONAL promises from God & cut by the Lord only (Gen 15:4-18). Today's New covenant is a partial fulfillment of Abrahamic covenant promises. Today's New covenant was cut & is mediated by God/Christ alone. And requires FAITH ALONE to access it's blessings.

Jesus became a curse (Gal 3:13) & sin (2 Cor 5:21)Faith in His finished sin atoning sacrificial offering removes ALL the believers sins & nullifies all the judgement curses levied (Deut 28:15-68) for sin.

The Mosaic law covenant cut at Sinai, was a CONDITIONAL covenant cut by TWO parties. The PEOPLE & the LORD (Ex 19:8). It required SELF-WORKS to access God's blessings (Deut 28:1-14) Curses were levied for non-compliance (Deut 28:15-68)

Ja 1:1: Written to the "twelve tribes" which are scattered abroad.
(MY NOTE: 12/Tribes = Circumcision =Israel = Jews only!)

James was sent to the circumcision/Israel/Jews (Gal 2:9). He's writing to Israelites still adherent to Mosaic law. Temple worship, circumcision, required feast attendance, food & purity rituals etc.
James was a Mosaic law adherent/Judaizer = Someone that believed Jesus was Messiah & one must follow Mosaic law in order to be saved. James sent men to spy on Peter & Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles. (Gal 2:11-12).

The Acts 15 Council of Jerusalem takes place years after James writes his epistle. This is a key transitional inflection point! This transition begins in 51 AD, years after the epistle of James is written.

At the Council of Jerusalem James, ALL the Apostles & elders debate, then agree. They send letters (Acts 15:23) to the gentiles churches. Stating gentiles don't have to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses (Acts 15:24) to be SAVED.

The good news of salvation for BOTH gentile & Jew isn't found in James Epistle. The gentile/Jew Body of Christ, good news by which NT believers are saved is: Christ died for your sins, was buried & rose from the dead on the 3rd day (1 Cor 15:1-4).

The gentile/Jew good news has no connection to circumcision or Mosaic law adherence. James writings record ZERO about the NT Body of Christ. You won't find Paul's (one body) Jew & gentile doctrine anywhere in James epistle.

There is a transitional period of time. From aprox 40 AD until the Temple is destroyed in 70 AD. When BOTH Temple & Church assembly messages are valid & operating.

After the Temple is destroyed one valid message remains, Paul's! No circumcision, required feast attendance, food or purity rituals etc. No Mosaic law to adherence needed.

The RISEN Christ ordains (1 Tim 2:7) Paul. And sends him to minister to the Gentiles (Acts 26:17). Via Christ's gospel of the GRACE of God (Acts 20:24)

Acts 26:
15 Saul said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

16 Jesus said; rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
(MY NOTE: The RISEN Christ tells Paul. The Gentiles to whom ""I SEND YOU"".)

18 (A) To open their eyes, (B) and to turn them from darkness to light, (C) and from the power of Satan unto God, (D) that they may receive forgiveness of sins, (E) and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

(A) To open their eyes: Reveal/expose and introduce the Gentiles to God

(B) and to turn Gentiles from darkness to light: bring them out of an elaborate system of idolatry, false worship paganism to the knowledge and worship of the one true God.

(C) and from the power of Satan (Adamic nature) to the authority of God (A New Born from Above Spiritual Creation) bringing the soul from it's birth state of spiritual darkness. To light and liberty of/in Christ.

(D) that the Gentiles may receive forgiveness of sins: That ALL their sins may be PARDONED. Thru faith placed in the sin atoning sacrifice. Found in death, burial & resurrection of Jesus the Christ

(E) and inheritance among the Gentiles that are sanctified by FAITH that is in CHRIST

Finally see KJ bible dictionary definition: MYS'TERY below.
Eph 3:
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
(MY NOTE: This is one of many secrets God kept hidden)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
(MY NOTE: This mystery/secret in other ages WAS NOT MADE KNOWN unto the sons of men. IS NOW REVEALED!)

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
(MY NOTE: That GENTILES would be FELLOW-HEIRS & of the same (ONE) body. And partakers of God's promised/Eternal life giving Holy Spirit)

Eph mystery is revealed about 25 years after James epistle is written

KJV Dictionary Definition: MYS'TERY, n. L. mysterium; Gr. a secret, hiding or shutting; to shut, to conceal.
1. A profound secret; something wholly unknown or something kept cautiously concealed, and therefore exciting curiosity or wonder.
av1611.com

People are free to believe & promote whatever they choose. Having said that imposing law verses onto today's Body of Christ is unscriptural.

Jn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

The old covenant Mosaic law dispensation (taught in James epistle) required SELF-WORKS in order to access God's blessings.

The new covenant gospel of the GRACE of God dispensation requires FAILH ALONE to access God/Christ's blessings.

Eph 3:2 Paul said; have ye heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to give to you:

 

[FollowingtheWay]

Of course Works are not for salvation but they are evidence of a changed heart living in loving obedience to the kingdom. The works become the fruit of your salvation or the outpouring of a heart wanting to love God through service to people. God isn’t going love us any more or less by our works but our works show how much we love Him and through our works we can experience being the hands and feet of Christ in this age and the joy that comes from that . Eternally secure first ,then Through the transformed heart is where works come into play. Salvation is in Christ alone by faith alone but there is more to our redeemed life here on earth than our salvation. We were bought for a price and we have been given a purpose to do good works

“For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2‬:‭10‬ ‭NIV‬‬


Those who seek to do his will on this earth will find favor with God in this life or in the age to come.

“And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11‬:‭6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

This seeking is a lifelong persuit in our daily lives.

For we know

““The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭40‬-‭46‬ ‭NIV‬‬

And we are guaranteed blessings from these works.
“Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it. “Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward. And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭38‬-‭42‬ ‭NIV‬‬



My point here is works do have their place in your life as a Christian walking securely in the presence of God.

 

[jb]

Ja 1:1: Written to the "twelve tribes" which are scattered abroad.
(MY NOTE: 12/Tribes = Circumcision =Israel = Jews only!)

Absolute piffle!

It is for ALL believers in Christ! Gal 3v28, Eph 2v11-22, 2Tim 3v16

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Ja 1:1: Written to the "twelve tribes" which are scattered abroad.
(MY NOTE: 12/Tribes = Circumcision =Israel = Jews only!)

Amen.

Absolute piffle!

It is for ALL believers in Christ! Gal 3v28, Eph 2v11-22, 2Tim 3v16

So, which do we obey, today, Under Grace?:

I have decided to follow Jesus?

I have decided to Follow ( The earthly ) Jesus?

A) Do I follow Him, and the doctrine He Spoke as The:

Humble Christ, on the earth, To Israel, 12 apostles, Under The Law/covenants
/Prophecy:

1) Repent (change mind about sin/agree With God "it is Wrong!") or perish
(Luk 13:3,5 Mar 1:4 24:47)
+
2) believe the gospel of the kingdom (Mat 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mar 1:14,15)
+
3) be water baptized "For the remission of sin" (Mar 1:4 Luk 3:3, 7:29:30, 24:47;
Act 2:38)
+
4) "show works meet for repentance" (Mat 3:8), because,
+
5) "to the twelve tribes of Israel," "faith Without works is dead"
(James 1:1, 2:17,26)
+
6) "keep the commandments" to "enter life" (Mat 19:17)
+
7) "one thing thou lackest...sell ALL/take up cross/follow Jesus"
(Mar 10:17-23)
+
8) pray as a watchman, for Great Tribulation, man of sin, son of perdition, and
signs of the end times, and Second Coming?

A) Do I follow His earthly prophecy "faith PLUS works" program of covenants and law?
( OT, Mat - John, Heb - Rev ) or:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

B) Do I follow Him As The Risen And Glorified "Head Of His Church" and ask:

I have decided to Follow ( The Heavenly ) LORD Jesus?

And, His Heavenly Pure Grace Program, According To The Revelation Of The Mystery?
(His Doctrine in Romans - Philemon)

Of course, Under God's Other Context Of Grace for The ( Heavenly ) ONE Body
Of Christ, Which began with ( ONE apostle ) Paul, Baptized By The ONE Spirit,
as the first 'member' of the ONE New man...
(Ephesians 2:15; 1 Timothy 1:16; Romans 11:13; Ephesians 4:5; 1 Corinthians 12:13),

...it is ( as Paul states 21 x ) "But Now":

1) Have repentance toward God (change mind about sin/agree With God "it is Wrong!")
(Acts 20:21)
+
2) Have faith toward The LORD Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21), and trust/believe The Gospel
Of The Grace Of God: His Death ( ALL-Sufficient Work On The Cross ), Burial, And
Resurrection, According To The Scripture (Ephesians 2:5-9; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4)
+
3) Acknowledge I am Spiritually Baptized By The ONE Baptism Of The Holy Spirit
Into The ONE (Spiritual Organism) Body Of Christ, Seated In the Heavenlies
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13)
+
4) Acknowledge Christ Is Living in me, so I allow Him to, through me:
+
5) To Fulfil:

All Of His Law, In ONE Word: ►► love ◄◄ thy neighbor
as thyself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10)
+
6) Study God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided to show myself "Approved Unto God"
(2 Timothy 2:15), and all the rest of these Bible study rules!
+
7) Work with my hands to "give to them in need," and the LORD "shall supply all my need"
(Ephesians 4:28; 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12; 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12; 1 Timothy 5:8)
+
8) Be a humble prayer warrior and:
"...look, watch, and Patiently WAIT For..." = The LORD Jesus Christ!
(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25; 1 Corinthians 1:7;
Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10;
1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13)
+
9) Put on the FULL armour of God and stand, in the spiritual warfare I wrestle with
(Ephesians 6:10-18)
+
10)
Eph 6:19 "And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I
may open my mouth boldly, to make known the Mystery Of The Gospel,"
+
11)
Eph 3:9 "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of The Mystery, which from the
beginning of the world hath been hid in God, Who created all things by Jesus Christ"
+
12) Acknowledge that I am going to give an account at Judgment (1 Corinthians 3:8-15;
Romans 14:12), at my Heavenly Home-Going ( Great GRACE Departure! )

According to these and all the details of God's Sound Doctrinal Blueprint In
Romans Through Philemon? (1 Timothy 1:10; 2 Timothy 4:3; Titus 1:9):

Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

Or:

C) Do I speak after following the Many, who homogenize A) + B) into
Massive Confusion?

Final question would be: Which Option, Under Grace Today, should I take
To Honor and Glorify God, Who Plainly and Clear Says in Romans 11:6:

"And if By Grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise​

Grace is no more Grace. But if it be of works, then is it​

no more Grace: otherwise work is no more work."​

Amen.

Extra Related study Bonus:

UnScriptural or UNdispensational?

Conclusion:
Big Difference between "Grace In a dispensation" and

"The ( Current ) Dispensation Of The Grace Of God, eh?

Amen.

 

[Sipsey]

For a unique, and extremely thorough exposition of the book of James, by a Greek grammarian, may I suggest a book entitled, “Faith, Hope, and Love,” by Spiros Zodhiates.

 

[Komentaja]

Amen.

So, which do we obey, today, Under Grace?:

I have decided to follow Jesus?

I have decided to Follow ( The earthly ) Jesus?

A) Do I follow Him, and the doctrine He Spoke as The:

Humble Christ, on the earth, To Israel, 12 apostles, Under The Law/covenants
/Prophecy:

1) Repent (change mind about sin/agree With God "it is Wrong!") or perish
(Luk 13:3,5 Mar 1:4 24:47)
+
2) believe the gospel of the kingdom (Mat 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mar 1:14,15)
+
3) be water baptized "For the remission of sin" (Mar 1:4 Luk 3:3, 7:29:30, 24:47;
Act 2:38)
+
4) "show works meet for repentance" (Mat 3:8), because,
+
5) "to the twelve tribes of Israel," "faith Without works is dead"
(James 1:1, 2:17,26)
+
6) "keep the commandments" to "enter life" (Mat 19:17)
+
7) "one thing thou lackest...sell ALL/take up cross/follow Jesus"
(Mar 10:17-23)
+
8) pray as a watchman, for Great Tribulation, man of sin, son of perdition, and
signs of the end times, and Second Coming?

A) Do I follow His earthly prophecy "faith PLUS works" program of covenants and law?
( OT, Mat - John, Heb - Rev ) or:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

B) Do I follow Him As The Risen And Glorified "Head Of His Church" and ask:

I have decided to Follow ( The Heavenly ) LORD Jesus?

And, His Heavenly Pure Grace Program, According To The Revelation Of The Mystery?
(His Doctrine in Romans - Philemon)

Of course, Under God's Other Context Of Grace for The ( Heavenly ) ONE Body
Of Christ, Which began with ( ONE apostle ) Paul, Baptized By The ONE Spirit,
as the first 'member' of the ONE New man...
(Ephesians 2:15; 1 Timothy 1:16; Romans 11:13; Ephesians 4:5; 1 Corinthians 12:13),

...it is ( as Paul states 21 x ) "But Now":

1) Have repentance toward God (change mind about sin/agree With God "it is Wrong!")
(Acts 20:21)
+
2) Have faith toward The LORD Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21), and trust/believe The Gospel
Of The Grace Of God: His Death ( ALL-Sufficient Work On The Cross ), Burial, And
Resurrection, According To The Scripture (Ephesians 2:5-9; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4)
+
3) Acknowledge I am Spiritually Baptized By The ONE Baptism Of The Holy Spirit
Into The ONE (Spiritual Organism) Body Of Christ, Seated In the Heavenlies
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13)
+
4) Acknowledge Christ Is Living in me, so I allow Him to, through me:
+
5) To Fulfil:

All Of His Law, In ONE Word: ►► love ◄◄ thy neighbor
as thyself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10)
+
6) Study God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided to show myself "Approved Unto God"
(2 Timothy 2:15), and all the rest of these Bible study rules!
+
7) Work with my hands to "give to them in need," and the LORD "shall supply all my need"
(Ephesians 4:28; 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12; 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12; 1 Timothy 5:8)
+
8) Be a humble prayer warrior and:
"...look, watch, and Patiently WAIT For..." = The LORD Jesus Christ!
(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25; 1 Corinthians 1:7;
Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10;
1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13)
+
9) Put on the FULL armour of God and stand, in the spiritual warfare I wrestle with
(Ephesians 6:10-18)
+
10)
Eph 6:19 "And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I
may open my mouth boldly, to make known the Mystery Of The Gospel,"
+
11)
Eph 3:9 "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of The Mystery, which from the
beginning of the world hath been hid in God, Who created all things by Jesus Christ"
+
12) Acknowledge that I am going to give an account at Judgment (1 Corinthians 3:8-15;
Romans 14:12), at my Heavenly Home-Going ( Great GRACE Departure! )

According to these and all the details of God's Sound Doctrinal Blueprint In
Romans Through Philemon? (1 Timothy 1:10; 2 Timothy 4:3; Titus 1:9):

Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

Or:

C) Do I speak after following the Many, who homogenize A) + B) into
Massive Confusion?

Final question would be: Which Option, Under Grace Today, should I take
To Honor and Glorify God, Who Plainly and Clear Says in Romans 11:6:

"And if By Grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise​

Grace is no more Grace. But if it be of works, then is it​

no more Grace: otherwise work is no more work."​

Amen.

Extra Related study Bonus:

UnScriptural or UNdispensational?

Conclusion:
Big Difference between "Grace In a dispensation" and

"The ( Current ) Dispensation Of The Grace Of God, eh?

Amen.

This teaching once again fails because Paul didnt "leave out" the water baptism. Acts 16 it was done. Paul speaks about it in Gal 3. Romans, just cant get away from it. The church has always done it and will always do it.

 

[SomeDisciple]

(MY NOTE: 12/Tribes = Circumcision =Israel = Jews only!)

Yes, the letter is addressed to the twelve tribes- and like every other epistle, the wisdom it contains is for the entire church.

James was a Mosaic law adherent/Judaizer = Someone that believed Jesus was Messiah & one must follow Mosaic law in order to be saved.

False. Gross error.

James sent men to spy on Peter & Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles. (Gal 2:11-12).

It says men came from James- not that James sent them to spy.

The Acts 15 Council of Jerusalem takes place years after James writes his epistle. This is a key transitional inflection point!

No, it is not a "key transitional inflection point". All they did was confirm what they already knew to be true- the Judaizers were false brethren with false teaching.

The good news of salvation for BOTH gentile & Jew isn't found in James Epistle.

He is writing to people who already believe. James is watering, not planting.

The gentile/Jew good news has no connection to circumcision or Mosaic law adherence.

And James didn't say they had to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses to be saved in his epistle either... what a coincidence!

James writings record ZERO about the NT Body of Christ.

False. Different terminology, same message.

There is a transitional period of time. From aprox 40 AD until the Temple is destroyed in 70 AD. When BOTH Temple & Church assembly messages are valid & operating.

The "transition period" was during Jesus' earthly ministry, and the temple became insufficient from the moment John the Baptist began preaching. The transition was complete when the Holy Ghost was given at Pentecost. When the New came the first was made obselete, and in 70 it "disappeared".

After the Temple is destroyed one valid message remains, Paul's! No circumcision, required feast attendance, food or purity rituals etc. No Mosaic law to adherence needed.

The existence of a temple in Jerusalem was and is irrelevant to both the effectiveness of the new covenant, and the obsolescence of the old.

Eph mystery is revealed about 25 years after James epistle is written

The mystery was revealed the second Peter saw that gentiles receiving the Holy Ghost. Paul didn't mean "NOW" as in, "this very second", he's just saying that as opposed to people in ages past, it's being revealed to them in that generation.

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
(MY NOTE: That GENTILES would be FELLOW-HEIRS & of the same (ONE) body. And partakers of God's promised/Eternal life giving Holy Spirit)

What was unknown (the mystery) is that the one body would be done through the Gospel. That God would raise the tabernacle of David was known because it was in the scripture. JAMES is the one to point that out.

The old covenant Mosaic law dispensation (taught in James epistle)

False. James' epistle is foundational church doctrine that comes from Jesus Christ the cornerstone. To reject James' epistle is to reject Christ.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, the letter is addressed to the twelve tribes- and like every other epistle, the wisdom it contains is for the entire church.

False. Gross error.

It says men came from James- not that James sent them to spy.

No, it is not a "key transitional inflection point". All they did was confirm what they already knew to be true- the Judaizers were false brethren with false teaching.

He is writing to people who already believe. James is watering, not planting.

And James didn't say they had to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses to be saved in his epistle either... what a coincidence!

False. Different terminology, same message.

The "transition period" was during Jesus' earthly ministry, and the temple became insufficient from the moment John the Baptist began preaching. The transition was complete when the Holy Ghost was given at Pentecost. When the New came the first was made obselete, and in 70 it "disappeared".

The existence of a temple in Jerusalem was and is irrelevant to both the effectiveness of the new covenant, and the obsolescence of the old.

The mystery was revealed the second Peter saw that gentiles receiving the Holy Ghost. Paul didn't mean "NOW" as in, "this very second", he's just saying that as opposed to people in ages past, it's being revealed to them in that generation.

What was unknown (the mystery) is that the one body would be done through the Gospel. That God would raise the tabernacle of David was known because it was in the scripture. JAMES is the one to point that out.

False. James' epistle is foundational church doctrine that comes from Jesus Christ the cornerstone. To reject James' epistle is to reject Christ.

It’s this situation is why it seems so backwards

“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The church were all Jews at the start paul Peter John Jesus James …..all were born and circumcised Jews who all heard the gospel and believed just like gentiles do

 

[Niki7]

and let's just ignore the gospels too cause they take up too much room and are pre-new covenant

in fact, toss Revelation cause of the preterists

wait...well there goes the entire OT...except maybe Isaiah 53 but that could be up for discussion

Personal comment: I find it absolutely revolting when certain people wish to diss on some books in the Bible. Listen. It's your
CHOICE although the Calvinists would disagree about that

Always always always something to disagree and fight about it seems

I would offer this: Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. John 14:27

but those are the words of Jesus...from the gospels....

And now, for an entertaining encore, lets' dispute the Holy Spirit

The misunderstanding is with those who wish to discredit and ignore certain things in scripture cause it just grates them the wrong way.

 

[fredoheaven]

The "transition period" was during Jesus' earthly ministry, and the temple became insufficient from the moment John the Baptist began preaching. The transition was complete when the Holy Ghost was given at Pentecost. When the New came the first was made obselete, and in 70 it "disappeared".

Amen! I would say that the dividing line would point to Jesus' earthly ministry. For grace and truth came by Jesus Christ John 1:17, whereas Law came by Moses and ended with John the Baptist Luke 16:16.

 

[fredoheaven]

.

Eph 3:2 Paul said; have ye heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to give to you:

The verse simply means the act of dispensing and not the age. It is the act of giving the gospel from Christ himself

 

[Nehemiah6]

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Not one word in this post about "the misunderstood book of James"!

As a matter of fact James writes as a Hebrew Christian to other Hebrew Christians. But that does not automatically exclude Gentile Christians. There is nothing to misunderstand in that book. James is all about practical Christianity.

 

[John146]

Not one word in this post about "the misunderstood book of James"!

As a matter of fact James writes as a Hebrew Christian to other Hebrew Christians. But that does not automatically exclude Gentile Christians. There is nothing to misunderstand in that book. James is all about practical Christianity.

Can you find any other place in scripture where the term, "twelve tribes" is a reference to Jewish Christians? In fact, every other usage in scripture is a reference to the entire nation of Israel, all descendants from the twelve tribes of Israel.

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

 

[Blade]

Absolute piffle!

It is for ALL believers in Christ! Gal 3v28, Eph 2v11-22, 2Tim 3v16

Would like to thank you jb for kinda taking me back to school to learn a new word. I would know it if I heard it but I never read the word. I really didn't school.. no not a all. HAHA

So who am I now? What branches make up the vine? I know since He told me once asking "show me a branch that was not originally of the vine. I am the vine you are the branches". So as Isaac was I AM a child or promise and all of it was written for and to me and all who are His. See before Christ OT HE told them if stranger is with you treat them as if they were born of you. Its in Lev "But the stranger who resides with you shall be to you like someone native-born among you; and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God. "

How do you think He looks at all of those that believe on trust in His son? As one as if they were born of them. So stop looking as if there are two groups still you are one and He would gladly give you the bread for you are the children.

 

[FlyingDove]

The word Judaizer comes from a Greek verb meaning: to live according to Mosaic laws customs. So, James wasn't a Mosaic law adherent?

James like every Israeli lived his whole life as a Mosaic law adherent.

James did not believe Jesus was Messiah until after the resurrection (Jn 7:5). James is one of the 120 that are baptized with Jesus Holy Spirit at Acts 2 Pentecost (Acts 1:14). The risen Jesus appears to James (1 Cor 15:7).

If the law adherent's that caused division in Gal 2:12 weren't sent by James. Why does scripture proclaim they came from James? Why not just record they came from the Church in Jerusalem or where ever?

If Acts 15 wasn't a key inflection point. Why record the heated debate & then send letters to ALL the gentile Churches (NOT Synagogues), stating gentiles weren't required to get circumcised or keep Mosaic laws (Acts 15:24). Both absolutely mandatory for every Mosaic law adherent & let us not forget the punishment for breaking Mosaic Sabbath law/DEATH by stoning (Num 15:77-36).

Num 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
(MY NOTE: So, the CONGREGATION STONES him to DEATH! Why? For picking up sticks on the Sabbath!)

Ex 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
(MY NOTE: You shall kindle "NO FIRE" on the Sabbath. They couldn't even lite a candle! Quick question to those that promote Sabbath keeping today. Do you DRIVE to your chosen place of worship? You may want to study-up on internal combustion = The BURNING of fuel.)

QUESTION: To those that claim ALL scripture is written to the NT body of Christ. And believe any interpretations or beliefs different from their own to be, just personally revolting (boo hoo).

Are NT believers are instructed to Stone to Death any brother or sister that, picks up a stick, lights a match or works after sunset on Fri?

I'm not argue aimless with every water logger that claims water baptism is necessary for salvation. And somehow being dunked into water removes sin (only FAITH in Jesus spilled blood can take away sin). Or the Sabbatarian that doesn't follow the law they promote. Or the covenant mixers that add works as a requirement for salvation (James epistle being one of their favorite go-to's)

Some things are worth repeating:

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(MY NOTE: ALL scripture is written for our LEARNING. ALL scripture isn't written for our DOCTRINE. Example related directly to the post: Are NT believers required to be circumcised, required to travel to the temple Mt & keep the feasts or keep all the Mosaic laws?)

Myles Coverdale; a Bible theologian/translator from the 1500’s. He wrote the Coverdale. Say's don't judge Scripture by what is spoken, or written only.

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.

Who wrote James = A mosaic law adherent. To whom was James writing? = Mosaic law adherents. When did James write the epistle? = Before the The Council At Jerusalem. Where is was recorded in scripture gentile believers weren't required to follow Mosaic laws)

The Mosaic law covenant cut at Sinai, was a CONDITIONAL covenant cut by TWO parties. The PEOPLE & the LORD (Ex 19:8).

It required SELF-WORKS to access God's blessings (Deut 28:1-14) Curses were levied for non-compliance (Deut 28:15-68)

Abrahamic covenant was based on the UNCONDITIONAL promises from God & cut by the Lord only (Gen 15:4-18). Today's New covenant is a partial fulfillment of Abrahamic covenant promises.

Today's New covenant was cut & is mediated by God/Christ alone. And requires FAITH ALONE to access it's blessings.

Jesus became a curse (Gal 3:13) & sin (2 Cor 5:21). FAITH in His finished sin atoning sacrificial offering removes ALL the believers sins & nullifies all the judgement curses levied (Deut 28:15-68) for sin.

 

[Cameron143]

The word Judaizer comes from a Greek verb meaning: to live according to Mosaic laws customs. So, James wasn't a Mosaic law adherent?

James like every Israeli lived his whole life as a Mosaic law adherent.

James did not believe Jesus was Messiah until after the resurrection (Jn 7:5). James is one of the 120 that are baptized with Jesus Holy Spirit at Acts 2 Pentecost (Acts 1:14). The risen Jesus appears to James (1 Cor 15:7).

If the law adherent's that caused division in Gal 2:12 weren't sent by James. Why does scripture proclaim they came from James? Why not just record they came from the Church in Jerusalem or where ever?

If Acts 15 wasn't a key inflection point. Why record the heated debate & then send letters to ALL the gentile Churches (NOT Synagogues), stating gentiles weren't required to get circumcised or keep Mosaic laws (Acts 15:24). Both absolutely mandatory for every Mosaic law adherent & let us not forget the punishment for breaking Mosaic Sabbath law/DEATH by stoning (Num 15:77-36).

Num 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
(MY NOTE: So, the CONGREGATION STONES him to DEATH! Why? For picking up sticks on the Sabbath!)

Ex 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
(MY NOTE: You shall kindle "NO FIRE" on the Sabbath. They couldn't even lite a candle! Quick question to those that promote Sabbath keeping today. Do you DRIVE to your chosen place of worship? You may want to study-up on internal combustion = The BURNING of fuel.)

QUESTION: To those that claim ALL scripture is written to the NT body of Christ. And believe any interpretations or beliefs different from their own to be, just personally revolting (boo hoo).

Are NT believers are instructed to Stone to Death any brother or sister that, picks up a stick, lights a match or works after sunset on Fri?

I'm not argue aimless with every water logger that claims water baptism is necessary for salvation. And somehow being dunked into water removes sin (only FAITH in Jesus spilled blood can take away sin). Or the Sabbatarian that doesn't follow the law they promote. Or the covenant mixers that add works as a requirement for salvation (James epistle being one of their favorite go-to's)

Some things are worth repeating:

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(MY NOTE: ALL scripture is written for our LEARNING. ALL scripture isn't written for our DOCTRINE. Example related directly to the post: Are NT believers required to be circumcised, required to travel to the temple Mt & keep the feasts or keep all the Mosaic laws?)

Myles Coverdale; a Bible theologian/translator from the 1500’s. He wrote the Coverdale. Say's don't judge Scripture by what is spoken, or written only.

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.

Who wrote James = A mosaic law adherent. To whom was James writing? = Mosaic law adherents. When did James write the epistle? = Before the The Council At Jerusalem. Where is was recorded in scripture gentile believers weren't required to follow Mosaic laws)

The Mosaic law covenant cut at Sinai, was a CONDITIONAL covenant cut by TWO parties. The PEOPLE & the LORD (Ex 19:8).

It required SELF-WORKS to access God's blessings (Deut 28:1-14) Curses were levied for non-compliance (Deut 28:15-68)

Abrahamic covenant was based on the UNCONDITIONAL promises from God & cut by the Lord only (Gen 15:4-18). Today's New covenant is a partial fulfillment of Abrahamic covenant promises.

Today's New covenant was cut & is mediated by God/Christ alone. And requires FAITH ALONE to access it's blessings.

Jesus became a curse (Gal 3:13) & sin (2 Cor 5:21). FAITH in His finished sin atoning sacrificial offering removes ALL the believers sins & nullifies all the judgement curses levied (Deut 28:15-68) for sin.

Accessing blessings is different from salvation. Walking by faith was always a characteristic of God's peop

 

[Cameron143]

The word Judaizer comes from a Greek verb meaning: to live according to Mosaic laws customs. So, James wasn't a Mosaic law adherent?

James like every Israeli lived his whole life as a Mosaic law adherent.

James did not believe Jesus was Messiah until after the resurrection (Jn 7:5). James is one of the 120 that are baptized with Jesus Holy Spirit at Acts 2 Pentecost (Acts 1:14). The risen Jesus appears to James (1 Cor 15:7).

If the law adherent's that caused division in Gal 2:12 weren't sent by James. Why does scripture proclaim they came from James? Why not just record they came from the Church in Jerusalem or where ever?

If Acts 15 wasn't a key inflection point. Why record the heated debate & then send letters to ALL the gentile Churches (NOT Synagogues), stating gentiles weren't required to get circumcised or keep Mosaic laws (Acts 15:24). Both absolutely mandatory for every Mosaic law adherent & let us not forget the punishment for breaking Mosaic Sabbath law/DEATH by stoning (Num 15:77-36).

Num 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
(MY NOTE: So, the CONGREGATION STONES him to DEATH! Why? For picking up sticks on the Sabbath!)

Ex 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
(MY NOTE: You shall kindle "NO FIRE" on the Sabbath. They couldn't even lite a candle! Quick question to those that promote Sabbath keeping today. Do you DRIVE to your chosen place of worship? You may want to study-up on internal combustion = The BURNING of fuel.)

QUESTION: To those that claim ALL scripture is written to the NT body of Christ. And believe any interpretations or beliefs different from their own to be, just personally revolting (boo hoo).

Are NT believers are instructed to Stone to Death any brother or sister that, picks up a stick, lights a match or works after sunset on Fri?

I'm not argue aimless with every water logger that claims water baptism is necessary for salvation. And somehow being dunked into water removes sin (only FAITH in Jesus spilled blood can take away sin). Or the Sabbatarian that doesn't follow the law they promote. Or the covenant mixers that add works as a requirement for salvation (James epistle being one of their favorite go-to's)

Some things are worth repeating:

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(MY NOTE: ALL scripture is written for our LEARNING. ALL scripture isn't written for our DOCTRINE. Example related directly to the post: Are NT believers required to be circumcised, required to travel to the temple Mt & keep the feasts or keep all the Mosaic laws?)

Myles Coverdale; a Bible theologian/translator from the 1500’s. He wrote the Coverdale. Say's don't judge Scripture by what is spoken, or written only.

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.

Who wrote James = A mosaic law adherent. To whom was James writing? = Mosaic law adherents. When did James write the epistle? = Before the The Council At Jerusalem. Where is was recorded in scripture gentile believers weren't required to follow Mosaic laws)

The Mosaic law covenant cut at Sinai, was a CONDITIONAL covenant cut by TWO parties. The PEOPLE & the LORD (Ex 19:8).

It required SELF-WORKS to access God's blessings (Deut 28:1-14) Curses were levied for non-compliance (Deut 28:15-68)

Abrahamic covenant was based on the UNCONDITIONAL promises from God & cut by the Lord only (Gen 15:4-18). Today's New covenant is a partial fulfillment of Abrahamic covenant promises.

Today's New covenant was cut & is mediated by God/Christ alone. And requires FAITH ALONE to access it's blessings.

Jesus became a curse (Gal 3:13) & sin (2 Cor 5:21). FAITH in His finished sin atoning sacrificial offering removes ALL the believers sins & nullifies all the judgement curses levied (Deut 28:15-68) for sin.

I apologize for the previous post. I tried to edit but ran out of time.
My point is simply that the just have always walked by faith and salvation has always been by grace through faith. James would have known this.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Can you find any other place in scripture where the term, "twelve tribes" is a reference to Jewish Christians? In fact, every other usage in scripture is a reference to the entire nation of Israel, all descendants from the twelve tribes of Israel.

Can you imagine the ABSURDITY of addressing unsaved Jews (the whole nation of Israel) within the New Testament, while teaching them Christian truths? The unsaved had already rejected Christ and the Gospel so why would they obey Christian directives? But both James and Peter are addressing HEBREW CHRISTIANS. Those who were within the Church. Peter calls them strangers (or sojourners, παρεπιδήμοις, parepidēmois = someone passing through) since after the persecution of Hebrew Christians in Jerusalem and Judea, they were in fact scattered throughout the Roman empire: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, This is the same group addressed by James.

ALL THE EPISTLES ARE WRITTEN TO THE CHILDREN OF GOD -- CHRISTIANS -- AND IT DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER THEY ARE ADDRESSED TO HEBREW CHRISTIANS EXCLUSIVELY OR BOTH GROUPS (INCLUDING GENTILES). As we know, in the Body of Christ that distinction is null and void.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So someone says my post is "Old". Not worth reading. Yet we have some serious errors about who was being addressed by James. And this issue has not gone away.

 

[FollowingtheWay]

So someone says my post is "Old". Not worth reading. Yet we have some serious errors about who was being addressed by James. And this issue has not gone away.

That’s my bad. I hit the wrong button and didn’t realize it till just now. My apologies and by all means proceed😊