Salvation by works
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When it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot dissect good/works of faith etc.. from the law and teach that we are saved by "these" works (good works/works of faith) but just not "those" works (works of the law). In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "work of faith" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)
In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Now please explain to me which good works could a Christian accomplish which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18) *NOWHERE does the Bible teach we are saved by grace through faith plus works of any kind.
The apostle Paul does not merely limit "works" only to specific works of the law, but includes works in general. In Titus 3:5, we read that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, we read that God saved us and called us with a holy calling not according to our works..
In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Now please explain to me which good works could a Christian accomplish which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18) *NOWHERE does the Bible teach we are saved by grace through faith plus works of any kind.
The apostle Paul does not merely limit "works" only to specific works of the law, but includes works in general. In Titus 3:5, we read that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, we read that God saved us and called us with a holy calling not according to our works..
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
Titus 2:11-15 KJV
a theres gods grace that teaches us to repent and live right that saves us
then there’s people who use the word grace as if gods word of judgement doesn’t matter that deceived people
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Jude 1:4 KJV
a when we say I’m saved by grace , but I don’t need to stop sinning and obey God were clinging to the wrong grace , when a person starts herring the gospel Jesus taught they will find gods grace that saves us teaching us to repent and live right while we wait for the lord and happily begin to do good and not begrudgingly while we resist lol
satan talks about grace too it’s the kind th at ignores ongoing sin and makes excuses why we don’t have to hear what god said to do and do it
Titus 2:11-15 KJV
a theres gods grace that teaches us to repent and live right that saves us
then there’s people who use the word grace as if gods word of judgement doesn’t matter that deceived people
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Jude 1:4 KJV
a when we say I’m saved by grace , but I don’t need to stop sinning and obey God were clinging to the wrong grace , when a person starts herring the gospel Jesus taught they will find gods grace that saves us teaching us to repent and live right while we wait for the lord and happily begin to do good and not begrudgingly while we resist lol
satan talks about grace too it’s the kind th at ignores ongoing sin and makes excuses why we don’t have to hear what god said to do and do it
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Grace compels a believer to be faithful to Jesus. So a believer would have a high chance of doing good works as the 'reasonable service'.
The thing though, is salvation by grace thru faith in Jesus is the root of salvation. The root of it has no works involved. It is pure and simply believing Jesus is God, that He died and rose again, and by believing in Him you have eternal life. That is the message all thru the bible.
Foreshadowed in the OT. Revealed in the NT.
The root of salvation is Jesus' sacrifice and payment for the one who believes in Him. Not works.
If I gave you my bible and said you gotta now clean my car to keep it.. that is not a free gift. But salvation thru Jesus is. We don't have to do anything of works to keep it.
The reason to serve is because sin is undone. Not because if we don't serve we go to hell. That is taken care of at the cross.
The thing though, is salvation by grace thru faith in Jesus is the root of salvation. The root of it has no works involved. It is pure and simply believing Jesus is God, that He died and rose again, and by believing in Him you have eternal life. That is the message all thru the bible.
Foreshadowed in the OT. Revealed in the NT.
The root of salvation is Jesus' sacrifice and payment for the one who believes in Him. Not works.
If I gave you my bible and said you gotta now clean my car to keep it.. that is not a free gift. But salvation thru Jesus is. We don't have to do anything of works to keep it.
The reason to serve is because sin is undone. Not because if we don't serve we go to hell. That is taken care of at the cross.
“The thing though, is salvation by grace thru faith in Jesus is the root of salvation. The root of it has no works involved”
yes what about salvstion as Jesus explained it though ? Everyone has thier catch phrases “ the works of the cross “ your saved “ nothing else is needed or required “
Thats not what the Bible has to say , that’s what people say when they pluck sentences from Paul’s writings paul taught every thing Jesus did like this
“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:4-11 KJV
see here’s the thing Paul teaches that constantly but what people do is ignore that and then wuote a sentence saying “ your saved by grace not works so none can boast “ and then they say “ we’re all saved by e cross nothing else matters “ lol but Paul’s clearly saying what he’s saying and here
“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
Ephesians 5:3-7
at his osnt Paul sayong “ maybe your gonna change and do good and stop evil works “ it’s a warning a very stern and plain warning saying “ you have to stop sinning and do good or you won’t have any inheritance in his kingdom “
again here in another epistle
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
But if I just say this and ignore all that
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
Ephesians 2:8 KJV
If I just say that’s everything then of course I’m going to think nothing I do can affect anything…. if I choose to willfully ignore all the warnings about repentance and only accept a few verses sayong I’m saved by grace then of course I’m not going to accept that I’ll be judged by my deeds by the lord Jesus christ
a what we refuse to accept is our limit of understanding this part has always been true
“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 KJV
and the church knows him
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11
Security is found in hearing Jesus and learning from our lord like this if we just insist it’s not true it’s sad but his words aren’t ever going to change and we’ll never be able to correct him like this here this is just true and he’s the judge of all
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Matthew 6:14-15
arhats for a born again child of God to accept and believe and live that’s gods grace we hear and believe Jesus we can live
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
That’s security for a believer
but then there’s this opposite
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
If I say I don’t need to forgive I’m forgiven already , that’s what’s gonna get me in the end rejecting the lords words of eternal Life
What Jesus did shedding his blood for us is essential can’t be saved without it , but if we reject his word that comes with his blood we also are guaranteeing our own judgement simply because we’re rejecting Gods word like every sinner has done since Adam
In the end each person alive has to get judged accord g to the judges words th Jose words are the ones jesus preached they promise life for the hearers and believers and promise judgement and condemnation for those who reject him
about if I reject everything but a few grace lines then yea the cross or whatever I want to make everything is everything to me . We sort of sometimes limit our own selves just by what we won’t accept
yes what about salvstion as Jesus explained it though ? Everyone has thier catch phrases “ the works of the cross “ your saved “ nothing else is needed or required “
Thats not what the Bible has to say , that’s what people say when they pluck sentences from Paul’s writings paul taught every thing Jesus did like this
“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:4-11 KJV
see here’s the thing Paul teaches that constantly but what people do is ignore that and then wuote a sentence saying “ your saved by grace not works so none can boast “ and then they say “ we’re all saved by e cross nothing else matters “ lol but Paul’s clearly saying what he’s saying and here
“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
Ephesians 5:3-7
at his osnt Paul sayong “ maybe your gonna change and do good and stop evil works “ it’s a warning a very stern and plain warning saying “ you have to stop sinning and do good or you won’t have any inheritance in his kingdom “
again here in another epistle
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
But if I just say this and ignore all that
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
Ephesians 2:8 KJV
If I just say that’s everything then of course I’m going to think nothing I do can affect anything…. if I choose to willfully ignore all the warnings about repentance and only accept a few verses sayong I’m saved by grace then of course I’m not going to accept that I’ll be judged by my deeds by the lord Jesus christ
a what we refuse to accept is our limit of understanding this part has always been true
“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 KJV
and the church knows him
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11
Security is found in hearing Jesus and learning from our lord like this if we just insist it’s not true it’s sad but his words aren’t ever going to change and we’ll never be able to correct him like this here this is just true and he’s the judge of all
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Matthew 6:14-15
arhats for a born again child of God to accept and believe and live that’s gods grace we hear and believe Jesus we can live
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
That’s security for a believer
but then there’s this opposite
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
If I say I don’t need to forgive I’m forgiven already , that’s what’s gonna get me in the end rejecting the lords words of eternal Life
What Jesus did shedding his blood for us is essential can’t be saved without it , but if we reject his word that comes with his blood we also are guaranteeing our own judgement simply because we’re rejecting Gods word like every sinner has done since Adam
In the end each person alive has to get judged accord g to the judges words th Jose words are the ones jesus preached they promise life for the hearers and believers and promise judgement and condemnation for those who reject him
about if I reject everything but a few grace lines then yea the cross or whatever I want to make everything is everything to me . We sort of sometimes limit our own selves just by what we won’t accept
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Yes, so the verses about having consequences for our unfaithfulness.. well God will obviously rebuke and admonish and prompt us through His Holy Spirit when we fall into sin. This is where Romans 6 comes in.
But the fact remains that the sin is still covered by Jesus. The consequence is loss of close relationship with Jesus, loss of rewards in heaven, possibly being kicked from your church if you go to one, having mental anguish as a result of the sin and possibly having your life taken by God to discontinue your affect on others on this earth.
That is alot of consequence! Just because they don't get sent to hell... doesn't mean there is no consequence for a wayward believer!
The key thing here is the difference in when a verse is about initially being converted or about daily service. So for eg.. the book of John is a lot to do with initial conversion.. and knowing you have that. Whereas.. James 2 is about what happens AFTER conversion.. what a believer is going to do in 'reasonable service'.
(Rom 6:1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(Rom 6:2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
(Rom 6:3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(Rom 6:4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
(Rom 6:5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(Rom 6:6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(Rom 6:7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
But the fact remains that the sin is still covered by Jesus. The consequence is loss of close relationship with Jesus, loss of rewards in heaven, possibly being kicked from your church if you go to one, having mental anguish as a result of the sin and possibly having your life taken by God to discontinue your affect on others on this earth.
That is alot of consequence! Just because they don't get sent to hell... doesn't mean there is no consequence for a wayward believer!
The key thing here is the difference in when a verse is about initially being converted or about daily service. So for eg.. the book of John is a lot to do with initial conversion.. and knowing you have that. Whereas.. James 2 is about what happens AFTER conversion.. what a believer is going to do in 'reasonable service'.
(Rom 6:1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(Rom 6:2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
(Rom 6:3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(Rom 6:4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
(Rom 6:5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(Rom 6:6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(Rom 6:7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
The Bible says charity, love in action, works, is greater than faith, and hope.
And faith works by love.
If a person does not have love in action then their faith is no good.
Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains but if he did not have charity then he is nothing.
Paul said if any one teaches godliness is gain withdraw yourselves from them having food, and clothing, be content.
For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.
If a person goes by their wants, and wants money for their wants they have erred from the faith.
James talked about caring about the poor and needy which if a person has the means to do it, and they do not, then their faith is dead.
A person is justified by works, and not faith alone.
Paul and James actually say the same thing but people fight over them.
We are not saved by works, and saved by faith, when we first come to Christ for that is all we can do.
But when we receive the Spirit then we have to have works of love to have faith active in our life which Paul and James say that.
John said if a person has the means to help the poor and needy and they do not do it then the love of God does not dwell in them.
So do not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed, works, and truth.
Love can only be valid if it is done in works, not in words.
And love has to be valid in our life before faith can be active in our life.
Love is greater than faith, and faith works by love.
We have to have works of love whatever a person needs help with for their needs, or else we do not have faith to be saved.
Love is the fulfilling of the law.
We see millions of people claiming Christ that go by their wants, and love money, and say we are saved by faith, but they lack love so their faith is no good.
And faith works by love.
If a person does not have love in action then their faith is no good.
Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains but if he did not have charity then he is nothing.
Paul said if any one teaches godliness is gain withdraw yourselves from them having food, and clothing, be content.
For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.
If a person goes by their wants, and wants money for their wants they have erred from the faith.
James talked about caring about the poor and needy which if a person has the means to do it, and they do not, then their faith is dead.
A person is justified by works, and not faith alone.
Paul and James actually say the same thing but people fight over them.
We are not saved by works, and saved by faith, when we first come to Christ for that is all we can do.
But when we receive the Spirit then we have to have works of love to have faith active in our life which Paul and James say that.
John said if a person has the means to help the poor and needy and they do not do it then the love of God does not dwell in them.
So do not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed, works, and truth.
Love can only be valid if it is done in works, not in words.
And love has to be valid in our life before faith can be active in our life.
Love is greater than faith, and faith works by love.
We have to have works of love whatever a person needs help with for their needs, or else we do not have faith to be saved.
Love is the fulfilling of the law.
We see millions of people claiming Christ that go by their wants, and love money, and say we are saved by faith, but they lack love so their faith is no good.
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hard to separate works from faith and vice versa, just saying that initial prayer to get saved could be considered a tiny work of faith, batpsim another small work of faith, reading the bible another, learning what is sinful and making mental notes of things to change in our lives is another small work, eventually witnessing, a larger act of faith. Even the weakest of faith will have some small work somewhere.
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