There will be no Rapture!!!
- Thread starter Romans1012
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Well.....don't blame me for winning. And knowing what I am talking about, and the indisputable force of my arguments.
BTW.....have I red-X'd anybody on this thread? No. Furthermore, see the status of the detractors. Scholars? Wise?
I don' think so. All of this is childish tomfoolery. And I shall continue to report it.
BTW.....this notion of yours that the 7th Trumpet is the marker for the arrival of the Second Coming Kingdom of righteousness and peace is......preposterous. The 7th trumpet is the third woe. Judgement death and misery, with even more devastating bowl judgements to follow.
BTW.....have I red-X'd anybody on this thread? No. Furthermore, see the status of the detractors. Scholars? Wise?
I don' think so. All of this is childish tomfoolery. And I shall continue to report it.
BTW.....this notion of yours that the 7th Trumpet is the marker for the arrival of the Second Coming Kingdom of righteousness and peace is......preposterous. The 7th trumpet is the third woe. Judgement death and misery, with even more devastating bowl judgements to follow.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
If that is your position then it makes no sense to use 'not appointed unto wrath' or I Thessalonians 5 to argue for pretrib.
'Going through the tribulation does not mean one is appointed unto wrath, do that phrase is not evidence for a pretrib rapture.
What evidence do you actually have for pretrib now?
'Going through the tribulation does not mean one is appointed unto wrath, do that phrase is not evidence for a pretrib rapture.
What evidence do you actually have for pretrib now?
-
1
- Show all
Here you go buddy. Some top notch scholarship regarding the THIRD WOE for you to consider......
https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/12311719213810/
https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/12311719213810/
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Here's a passage from the article that I think is a pretty good breakdown of the events, that I mostly agree with;
It seems much more reasonable, particularly in the light of His promises to save His church from the “wrath to come,” that He would save His church from the “hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world.” That would certainly be characteristic of our loving, merciful, forgiving heavenly Father and Bridegroom. The saints who are martyred during the Tribulation are not part of the church. They are defined in Revelation 7:14 as “the ones who come out of the Great Tribulation, and [have] washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
FULL article:
The Events of the Tribulation Period | Bible.org
It seems much more reasonable, particularly in the light of His promises to save His church from the “wrath to come,” that He would save His church from the “hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world.” That would certainly be characteristic of our loving, merciful, forgiving heavenly Father and Bridegroom. The saints who are martyred during the Tribulation are not part of the church. They are defined in Revelation 7:14 as “the ones who come out of the Great Tribulation, and [have] washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
FULL article:
The Events of the Tribulation Period | Bible.org
-
1
- Show all
J
just to be clear, you're reporting people for having the effrontery to disagree with YOU? 
-
3
-
1
- Show all
Oh my, and you said to me yesterday that I'm upset? It's rather apparent that you are not familiar with 1 Corinthians 11:19, "For there must be factions/differences of opinion among you, (why?) in order that those who are approved may have become evident among you." Having differences of opinion serve the purpose of sifting the good from the bad. Those approved by God become manifest to other men.
I also have another verse that fits you like a "T." Jeremiah 12:5, "If you have run with the footmen and they have "TIRED YOU OUT," THEN how can you compete with horses?" It's no wonder you want to be raptured, you can't even handle the "WRATH" differences of opinion. In short, gird up your loins boy!
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I also have another verse that fits you like a "T." Jeremiah 12:5, "If you have run with the footmen and they have "TIRED YOU OUT," THEN how can you compete with horses?" It's no wonder you want to be raptured, you can't even handle the "WRATH" differences of opinion. In short, gird up your loins boy!
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
you're a good brother, Ed. i love you
Can you imagine us sitting around a billion yrs from now saying "Remember that time we all bickered over the rapture!".
We are brethren, with a stronger bond than any fleshly blood. We are IN Christ together!
BTW. I'm painfully aware I can get overly passionate about things too. God has to constantly yank me out of that.
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Sure it does. UNIQUELY the Church is not appointed to see God's 70th week of Daniel tribulation wrath upon the "earth dwellers". The Church and the Church alone.
Very simple very straightforward verse. When you recognize the specificity of the intended audience......
Very simple very straightforward verse. When you recognize the specificity of the intended audience......
The prooftexts pretribbers like to use says not appointed unto wrath but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. Notice the contrast. Show me a verse that says the church is not appointed to the 70th week of Daniel's tribulation. I know a lot of pre-tribbers think that way. I'm asking for Biblical support.
Pre-tribbers are able to take verses about the coming of Christ and say this verse is about the pre-trib rapture and this verse is about a different coming of Christ. What is missing is scripture that shows that the coming of Christ we are waiting for happens more than once.
Well, I kind of "get" your question, or what you are getting at...
... but let me ask you, what do you make of 1Th3:13, where it uses both the word "parousia"... and the word "G1715," ("BEFORE [*G1715 - emprosthen ] the God and Father of us in the coming / parousia of our Lord Jesus Christ...")
[quoting from BlueLetterBible, under the heading of Thayer's Greek Lexicon]
*G1715 -
b. before, in the presence of, equivalent to opposite to, over against one: στῆναι, Matthew 27:11; ὁμολογεῖν and ἀρνεῖσθαι (Buttmann, 176 (153)), Matthew 10:32; Matthew 26:70; Luke 12:8,(9 Lachmann); also Galatians 2:14; 1 Thessalonians 1:3; 1 Thessalonians 2:19; 1 Thessalonians 3:9, 13; before one, i. e. at his tribunal: Matthew 25:32; Matthew 27:11; Luke 21:36; Acts 18:17; 2 Corinthians 5:10; 1 Thessalonians 2:19; (1 John 3:19). Here belong the expressions εὐδοκία, θέλημα ἐστι ἔμπροσθεν Θεοῦ, it is the good pleasure, the will of God, Matthew 11:26; Matthew 18:14; Luke 10:21, formed after Chaldean usage; for in 1 Samuel 12:22 the words יְהוָה הואִיל, God wills, Jonathan the targumist renders יְהוָה קֲדָם רַעֲוָא; cf. Fischer, De vitiis lexamples N. T. etc., p. 329f; (cf. Buttmann, 172 (150)).
[end quoting from BLB; bold mine... note that Matt25:32 is a distinct and wholly different "setting" from that which 1Th3:13 speaks to... I'm just bolding it also to show its meaning being "before" / in His presence]
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g1715/kjv/tr/0-1/
1Th3:13 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1th/3/13/ss1/s_1114013
Question: what does this verse have to do with His "parousia / presence"?
... but let me ask you, what do you make of 1Th3:13, where it uses both the word "parousia"... and the word "G1715," ("BEFORE [*G1715 - emprosthen ] the God and Father of us in the coming / parousia of our Lord Jesus Christ...")
[quoting from BlueLetterBible, under the heading of Thayer's Greek Lexicon]
*G1715 -
b. before, in the presence of, equivalent to opposite to, over against one: στῆναι, Matthew 27:11; ὁμολογεῖν and ἀρνεῖσθαι (Buttmann, 176 (153)), Matthew 10:32; Matthew 26:70; Luke 12:8,(9 Lachmann); also Galatians 2:14; 1 Thessalonians 1:3; 1 Thessalonians 2:19; 1 Thessalonians 3:9, 13; before one, i. e. at his tribunal: Matthew 25:32; Matthew 27:11; Luke 21:36; Acts 18:17; 2 Corinthians 5:10; 1 Thessalonians 2:19; (1 John 3:19). Here belong the expressions εὐδοκία, θέλημα ἐστι ἔμπροσθεν Θεοῦ, it is the good pleasure, the will of God, Matthew 11:26; Matthew 18:14; Luke 10:21, formed after Chaldean usage; for in 1 Samuel 12:22 the words יְהוָה הואִיל, God wills, Jonathan the targumist renders יְהוָה קֲדָם רַעֲוָא; cf. Fischer, De vitiis lexamples N. T. etc., p. 329f; (cf. Buttmann, 172 (150)).
[end quoting from BLB; bold mine... note that Matt25:32 is a distinct and wholly different "setting" from that which 1Th3:13 speaks to... I'm just bolding it also to show its meaning being "before" / in His presence]
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g1715/kjv/tr/0-1/
1Th3:13 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1th/3/13/ss1/s_1114013
Question: what does this verse have to do with His "parousia / presence"?
Harpazo/rapture = snatching the betrothed virgin to the Fathers house for the 7day (7 year) intimate "knowing".
Second Coming = wedding supper/feast where the already married Husband and Wife are the honored by the invited guests.
Until you comprehend this, you will be chasing your eschatological tail to infinity and beyond.
Jhn 3:29
He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
Second Coming = wedding supper/feast where the already married Husband and Wife are the honored by the invited guests.
Until you comprehend this, you will be chasing your eschatological tail to infinity and beyond.
Jhn 3:29
He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
-
2
-
1
-
1
- Show all