How Can We Help, Prevent, and Stop the Abuse of Men in Relationships?

[presidente]

Hi Everyone,

Some recent talk in the forums had me thinking about the fact that when we talk about abuse in relationships, it's almost always assumed to be a case of a woman who is being abused by a man (and in many cases, maybe the abuse is coming from both sides.)

But the opposite side is rarely talked about, and as Christians, I think it's important to discuss so that we can be of help.

* Have you ever witnessed a man (perhaps even a close relative or your own father) being abused in a relationship? (I realize this question is probably too personal for any man who has been through it himself; feel free to share only what you are comfortable with.)

* Did he try to tell anyone or get help? What was done? How did the person survive?

* What can be done to help prevent men from getting into abusive relationships/marriages, and how do we help them get out if they are in one?"

One of the inspirations for this thread is a story I remember from a regular Singles poster who knew a man who was killed by his wife, and just reading that felt like a stab through the heart.

We probably have to start with talking about how abuse can be defined in these cases, as I'm guessing (I could be wrong; this is a chance for me to learn,) that a woman abusing a man might look a bit different than a man abusing a woman. For example, there might not be as much physical confrontation or beatings (though it certainly could be that,) but possibly more hateful ultimatums and threats?

I have known many men who were financially abused by women, which I think can be a delicate subject especially in the church because Godly men are seen as needing to be providers. But there must be a line between a man providing and a woman simply demanding more, more, and more to the point where the man is literally working himself to death.

This also has me thinking of times when husbands would have Biblical grounds to divorce their wives due to abuse. I have also heard of many single fathers who became that way because their wives were alcoholics or drug addicts, etc.

I grew up in a childhood church that pretty much insisted a married couple stay together no matter what; the church I found in my later adulthood told its members that if one was in an abusive marriage, "Get out while you still have your life." Now, I understand that there is a wide array of beliefs about this, and that the definition of "abuse" can easily be manipulated into serving one's wants and not actual Biblical grounds. I myself have the stance that God does not want us to stay in abusive situations, but those are just my own beliefs.

I have seen both male and female friends, co-worker, family members, etc., get into bad relationships or marriages because of something they were attracted to (a pretty face, financial stability, etc.) and they couldn't be talked out of it (I've been guilty of this myself!)

But over the years, as "Girl Power!" becomes the extremely lopsided battle cry of society, I find myself more and more concerned that men, especially those of various demographics that have been almost unanimously villainized, will become more susceptible to suffering in silence than ever before. I think especially of young men who are trying to navigate an increasingly hostile society that sees them as the enemy, just for being male.

Something has to be done.

What can we do as Christians to come together to help and protect our Godly men?

Good questions. I thought I would finishing out my existing threads on this forum and be on my way for the time being, but the topic reeled me in?

What can we do the help? Men can offer each other support and advice. Since this is the singles forum, I'd say start with prevention.

I would advice a Christian single thinking of marriage to avoid a woman who expresses serious concern about 'the patriarchy' as an evil, bad thing and can't easily be persuaded otherwise. Go for a woman who embraces her own Biblical role in marriage which includes being submissive, obedient, and respectful/reverent toward her husband. That can be difficult for women, especially women raised in western culture, to embrace, but if she embraces it in theory, that's an advantage. Some foreign cultures or church subcultures may be better for finding this kind of woman.

If a woman seeks God's kingdom first and honestly desires to be obedient to God in all things, that is a good starting point. If she prioritizes making things right with others if she wrongs them, making up after arguments or disagreements, that's good.

I would say avoid a woman with severe temper problem-- who likes to throw plates or even verbally just loses self control when she's angry and says cruel thing. That's similar advice for a woman considering a man. A lot of self-control when it comes to a temper is also a bad thing.

For me, I didn't like girls who were arm slappers if you told a joke, especially if they hit hard. That's partly a cultural thing. I just didn't think it set a good pattern for a relationship. I wouldn't consider that a deal breaker, just something I personally would nip in the bud.

It is a bad thing when a woman always has to be right, even when she isn't. Starting arguments of nothing is another red flag. A man also has to cut a woman some slack. The truth is a lot of us can be stubborn about being right in an argument or we can start arguments when we get grumpy. If she admits her mistakes and tries to make up if she's done that, then a relationship might be feasible.

Then when the relationship goes forward into marriage, set some boundaries. Call her out for disrespect. No insults, name-calling. No verbally abusive behavior. And don't do that to her. For men, that would be my advice also. Don't let her be your mother. Don't let her boss you around. She has to say please and ask nicely. Call her out if she's disrespectful, and if you've allowed it in the past. Some behaviors, left unchecked, can grow into abusive behaviors. If she's just plain wrong in an argument, don't pretend she's right just to get along.... or just so she can cool down so you can return to a normal sex life. But admit your own mistakes and be compassionate and empathetic. Don't let her have you walk on eggshells.

If she's given to tantrums, have the attitude that you are an adult and she is a little child. Don't get sucked into the anger. Keep your cool. The Bible says do not let the sun go down on your wrath. The new day begins at sundown. If you get in an argument late at night and can't resolve it, don't stay up fighting to resolve it. You might be tired or she might be tired. Let her get some rest and see if you can resolve it in the morning when she isn't tired and grumpy. You still have until sundown for the new day to begin.

Setting boundaries and nipping disrespect in the bud before it grows into abusive behavior may work sometimes. But there are some people with major flaws when it comes to character and interpersonal relationships who are just going to be horrible to get along with. Not all shrews can be tamed without supernatural intervention.

What can men do to help? Offer advice on how to handle a woman when she is being difficult. That's the scope of the advice in this post. I'm sure there are other things.

 

[presidente]

* Gentlemen, how helpful (or not) do you find things like Men's Groups and get togethers ("Men's Pancake Breakfast This Saturday at 8 AM") to be? Do any of you participate in these groups and do you feel they have helped you build a support network? *

I've actually done the way-to-early-in-the-morning men's Bible study series, which turned out to be an irritating series on how just about almost everything is an 'idol' and everyone always has an 'idol', and this is how to get the 'idols' out of your life--- rather contradictory. Parts of it were good. But it was way too early. I was working a job with some long hours, and somehow my house got to be the cell group location for another church for a night, on Friday night, and they kept it going until midnight before the men's thing on a week I was exhausted.

I joke about the 5:30 AM Saturday men's breakfast. I think the one I went to was around 7 AM or 7:30. Supposedly some men like that so they can have the rest of the day. I like having those early morning hours to sleep.

8:30 is way too early for Saturday, IMO.

But I have been to men's bowling and video games that started at 10. 10:30 men's breakfast is pretty cool.

The early morning session had a large group divided into tables for discussion. That was good. The other church with the later sessions tended to have lighter, more fun social activities, but weren't as deep.

I'm involved in a men's Bible study that just started. There is a bit of sharing. I don't know if anyone would share marital problems with a group of 10 men, but it could serve as a basis for forming the relationships where those problems could be shared for prayer and advice.

 

[presidente]

I can relate to this very well, but from the other side.

One of the reasons I'm single is because most first dates felt like counseling sessions. I got into situations where I felt more like a crutch than an actual person, and it took me a long time to get out of the cycle myself.

I'm very sorry you've been through this.

Praying you meet someone who appreciates you for who you are.

You seem to be an empathetic and understanding soul. I suspect a man one day will appreciate that without turning it into a counseling session.

A date where the other person vents and whines about their ex sounds rather unpleasant.

 

[seoulsearch]

You seem to be an empathetic and understanding soul. I suspect a man one day will appreciate that without turning it into a counseling session.

A date where the other person vents and whines about their ex sounds rather unpleasant.

Thank you for your kind words.

It's interesting to me that my dating stories have gotten a few "surpised" emoji's from men -- perhaps they were not aware that these are some of the things women are experiencing with the Christian dating world. And my experiences are very mild compared to what others have gone through (both men and women.)

This is why I like having these discussions -- my hope is always that maybe it will help people better understand what the other is going through and will make us all want to support one another.

 

[presidente]

Basically it seems the men did all the work but worked so hard to put bread on the table and were not spending enough time with ther wives and the wives got angry as theywere left by themselves all day with just the children to cope with and nobody else around to help them.

which probably happens in pretty much ALL suburban marriages. Not sure if this counts as abuse though? If the dad could work from home, he'd be a farmer right.

I heard a preacher say for mother's day, everyone praises mothers at church and gives them flowers. For Father's day, the preacher plays "Cat's in the Cradle' and scolds the men. I haven't quite seen that, but I do remember a preacher talking to father's who 'never got to see your children by the light of day', talking about priorities, working overtime. I wonder if the audience members ever thought, "Easy for you to say with your cushy preacher job."

Your post also brings up the issue of what is abuse.

I hear 'abuse' and I think of black eyes, swollen shut, broken bones and such. But some people use abuse for 'financial abuse' and 'verbal abuse.' I'm not saying that verbal abuse can't be quite harmful. But what is verbal abuse? It's one thing if a man curses his wife, wishing her dead, calls her cuss words to call her a prostitute, tells her she's stupid and won't to ever be able to do anything right. It's another thing if he honestly answers her when she asks, yes she looks fat in that dress. Is telling one's husband/wife that he/she needs to lose some weight to be physically attractive again 'abuse.'

I know when I was young and did some construction work, it wasn't hazing per se, but the crude stuff some of the workers would say to helpers might be considered verbal abuse.

And financial abuse, some of the 'abuse' models include financial abuse. I remember seeing a list of questions from one of the international organization, WHO, I think, on intimate partner violence. Most of the questions were about real abusive situations. But as I recall, one of the questions along the lines of whether your partner with holds funds. So someone could say 'yes' to that, and if her husband didn't give her money when she asked, he was put in the same category as wife beaters.

There are cultures where men earn and control the money. So if some man from the middle east just gave his wife an allowance and didn't have a joint account (which might not even be a thing there), then he's considered abusive as if he were slapping her around. That seems to me to be an ethnocentric prejudice for those defining abuse.

I also find bad questions and bad methodology from surveys from such major organizations irritating when they have the resources to have academics critique their instruments.

 

[stilllearning]

I ran across a documentary back in 2018, it was done by a feminist, she sought to find out herself what the rise of MRA's or men's right activist was all about. It is is not a Christian documentary by any chance. However, will say it is honest. I think it covers rather good why we had a rise of feminism and now the opposite, MRA's. At least from a non biblical perspective, as lets face it sin is man's problem and Christ the only answer.

So much more could be said by me, but I don't want to say anymore cause I want folks to come to their own conclusion's. At least those willing to just watch with a open mind and hear what men are saying is the abuses they feel in their own words. As I am under the opinion how can you fix abuses unless the abuses have been defined.

So anyway here is a link that should take you to youtube and the link should be for the no charge viewing of the documentary. It is a 2 hour movie, but if anyone has a interest or curious to hear from the horse's mouth. I find that the film delivers on that point.

 

[presidente]

The flip side for women is that nice women who don't have a certain look the guys want are also tossed aside. I know women who are the sweetest Christian gals you could ever meet, still virgins, no tattoos, could probably outcook Paula Deen, earn their own wages and are frugal with money -- but they don't fit within the weight limits, body styles, or level of looks the guys they've been attracted to, and so they too are "just friends."

As I was reading this paragraph, about the time I got to the Paula Deen and frugal with money part, I wondered.... how much do these women weigh?

There are a lot of men go for a larger body type than the typical model, but realistically, it seems like most young people in the west aren't looking for a heftier partner, whether male or female.

I remember hearing a friend from a Bible study group say to my wife we me present that to find a husband, she just needed to do x, y, and z, and wait on the Lord and watch her figure, keep her weight down. She had a pretty face, but had put on a few dozen pounds since I knew her. My wife commended on the keeping her weight down part to me later. If there was some button you could push to be attracted to larger body types, different types of looks, etc., it might be a lot easier.

One of the worst dates I ever had was with a guy I really had high hopes for, as my friends who worked in missions had set him up, saying he had been a worship leader, etc.

The entire date consisted of him telling me everything his ex-wife did wrong, including witholding sex from him, and he winked at me and said, "I sure hope you wouldn't be like." He then actually made a comment about being willing to test things out right then and there on the restaurant floor.

I politely evaded, listened, and endured the "conversation"... but man oh man.

I couldn't get home fast enough.

You would have been your rights in saying, "This conversation is over" when he got to the testing on the floor part.... with a comment about how you expected something different from a former worship leader.

Talking that way to a single Christian woman is also insulting to her, implying she might be interested in fornication. It's different if a couple have been dating and moving toward engagement and marriage and respectfully have a discussion about sexual expectations and attitudes along with discussion of having children, finances, etc.

(This is also a reason why I usually don't ask someone pick me up on a date -- so I can have my own transportation to rely on if needed.)

That does make sense. You could Uber away if he picks you up, but if you got there on your own then the social pressure is less on him to take you home if you got there by yourself. Picking a woman up and escorting her home seems more chivalrous, but it makes sense for her to know that he is a decent guy first.

 

[seoulsearch]

That does make sense. You could Uber away if he picks you up, but if you got there on your own then the social pressure is less on him to take you home if you got there by yourself. Picking a woman up and escorting her home seems more chivalrous, but it makes sense for her to know that he is a decent guy first.

(Your reply regarding my insistence on driving myself to and from dates.)

It certainly does feel more chivalrous for a man to pick a woman up and drop her off, but there are just too many unknowns these days.

Unfortunately, you get caught in a Catch 22. If I insist on having my own vehicle and using it, some Christian guys would see me as an Evil Jezebel feminist who yells at a man for opening a door for her.

No, no, no! I love it when a man opens a door for me, and I mourn the fact that old-fashioned chivalry has been killed off.

But you just never know what you're going to face. It's tough for both genders out there, for sure. That's another reason I stopped actively dating. I didn't want to be accused of being An Evil Feminist who was Breaking Down The Family because I had a job and my own money (to hopefully help relieve the financial pressures if I did meet the right person someday,) but some guys see that as a sign that you're not good, submissive wife material.

Then depending on how things went, I always offered to pay for myself but of course, was flattered if he offered to pay for me.

And if he had spent a lot of time talking about how woman after woman had only used him for money, which was the norm, I just went ahead and paid the whole check for both of us. (I also quit actively trying to date because after paying the whole way several times, it got pretty expensive, so I can sympathize with the guys.)

The number one request I had in my dating profile was that I was seeking a Christian -- and of course we all know Christians in name only, but anyone who's dated know how tough it is to be able to screen for every possibility.

I made another mistake once of mentioning that I had a house, which led to that guy figuring out I lived alone, and he said, "Well, how about inviting a guy on over to your place?"

HUGE SIGH.

I just couldn't take the stress anymore, to be honest. I most definitely don't see men as predators but dating was making me feel way more vulnerable that I ever anticipated. I don't want to have to worry about saying the wrong thing or having to dodge uncomfortable situations or expectations.

And so, for now, and unless God changes things, I just choose isolation over all that anxiety.

Not in a self-pitying way, but, in a way that makes me sympathized even more with other singles as we try to get through life.

I apologize for the ramble, but thank you for allowing me to answer honestly.

P.S. I pray your daughters have a much better experience!

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

I don't know what God's answer would be.

I know what God's answer would be, and it is quite simple.

Men, submit yourselves to God, his Spirit, and his word, and behave yourselves according to the dictates of scripture.

Women, submit yourselves to God, his Spirit, and his word, and behave yourselves according to the dictates of scripture.

What is so hard about that?

Nothing...except that most people, including a lot of professing Christians, are proud and self-willed.

Even on some of your threads, seoul, and I am not singling you out, I find it very interesting which posts are "liked", and which posts are not.

Post something scriptural, and most people do not "like" it.

Post your own opinion, and people "like" it.

Therein lies the problem.

P.S.

By "your own opinion", I mean anybody's opinion.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

No one seems to have mentioned how we are to take EVERYTHING to Him for His guidance, so far I see people posting of how they are going to continue to lean on they're own understanding, the very thing that creates problems.
If there is trouble here on earth, it is never from Him.

Exactly.

In my estimation, the whole "blame game" began in the garden of Eden.

You know.

Eve blamed the serpent, and Adam blamed both Eve and God.

And so it goes.

To this day, hardly anybody wants to take accountability for their own actions.

As I recently posted on another thread (and that went over like a lead balloon), God has not only called us to suffer, but also to patiently endure suffering with a conscience towards him or for his sake while continuing in well-doing ourselves no matter what other people are doing.

On a lot of these threads, I see a lot of finger-pointing followed up with self-justifications for responding wickedly to what other people have allegedly done. None of this will hold any water with God come Judgment Day. We will all give an account for our own actions.

Well, probably just another lead balloon...

 

[presidente]

But you just never know what you're going to face. It's tough for both genders out there, for sure. That's another reason I stopped actively dating. I didn't want to be accused of being An Evil Feminist who was Breaking Down The Family because I had a job and my own money (to hopefully help relieve the financial pressures if I did meet the right person someday,) but some guys see that as a sign that you're not good, submissive wife material.

How common is it for men to think like that? Do they expect a woman in her 20s or 30s to sit at home, do nothing, and live off her parents? Unless her parents or rich have a farm or a home business making soap and candles or something like that, she'll have to work somewhere. I would think if a woman expressed interest in the stay-at-home mom role that would be good enough for a lot of men who want rigidly defined gender roles. Is that not enough for those types of men?

And if he had spent a lot of time talking about how woman after woman had only used him for money, which was the norm, I just went ahead and paid the whole check for both of us. (I also quit actively trying to date because after paying the whole way several times, it got pretty expensive, so I can sympathize with the guys.)

It can be rough. The Asian currency crisis hit right before I started seeing my wife, so the nice buffet was about $2 a piece in Indonesia, and she was college, so I just took her out all the time and didn't worry much about prices. She also expressed concern about not spending too much, which was good.

The number one request I had in my dating profile was that I was seeking a Christian -- and of course we all know Christians in name only, but anyone who's dated know how tough it is to be able to screen for every possibility.

If a woman were to right a bit about wanting a Christian who was living out his faith... including no sex before marriage... does that weed out the naughty ones or does it run off the really conservative ones because she used the word 'sex.' I wonder if a woman mentioned that she was a virgin if that would attract the right kind of men or some of the wrong kind of men.

I made another mistake once of mentioning that I had a house, which led to that guy figuring out I lived alone, and he said, "Well, how about inviting a guy on over to your place?"

HUGE SIGH.

It's probably good to mention that and a few other very innocent things that would lead to such comments so you know not to have a second date.

P.S. I pray your daughters have a much better experience!

My wife and I are praying about spouses for our children. It's tough out there for singles who are serious about their faith.

 

[seoulsearch]

I know what God's answer would be, and it is quite simple.
Men, submit yourselves to God, his Spirit, and his word, and behave yourselves according to the dictates of scripture.
Women, submit yourselves to God, his Spirit, and his word, and behave yourselves according to the dictates of scripture.
What is so hard about that? Nothing...except that most people, including a lot of professing Christians, are proud and self-willed.
Post something scriptural, and most people do not "like" it. Post your own opinion, and people "like" it.

In my own experience, I've had a lot of people over the years label me as "a bad Christian"(I'm not saying you, Seeking, I'm just saying in general) because I don't follow the same spiritual protocol as they do. And I understand that. In many of the Christian circles I've been around, I'm not "spiritual enough" for their definitions.

But I believe I am called to go about things from a different approach. I'm used to talking to seasoned Christians, therefore, I don't look for an automatic "spiritual checklist" I have to "make sure" they've completed every time if I know them, and those who know me show me the same courtesy.

When a child is young, his parents have to remind him to brush his teeth and get his backpack ready for school. At first, he requires lots of prompts and reminders, but hopefully, it becomes second nature, and his parents trust him to do these things on his own.

In Christian circles, if people don't automatically say something "spiritual enough" or give "enough evidence" that they've prayed "long enough" or "hard enough," and if they don't copy and paste walls of Scripture, they are always assumed to be worldly and only giving their own opinions.

The number one complaint I've gotten over the years is that I don't constantly recite Scripture in my posts. There are sometimes when I do (thankfully the old timers here know that,) but in general, I have a different approach, especially when a lot of regulars are answering. I don't have to check if they've spiritually brushed their teeth ("Have you prayed about this?") or brought their backpack ("Can you give me all the Scriptures you can find about this?") -- and I'm hoping they've trusted me to do the same.

Now by all means, for the ones who feel led to post Scripture, keep on doing so, especially when you feel God is leading.

But as for me, I'm going to go about things the way I've learned to do within my own calling.

I am almost always called to people who have been very damaged, usually physically and sexually abused (both men and women,) and often by those who worked in ministry or claimed to be Christians. The people abused them were often the ones trying to teach them about God, or so they said. Because of this, I tend to try to get to know people and their stories for a long time before i start reciting Scripture. The child rapist who victimized them might have been twisting things from the Bible to justify their actions, so in my experience, I can't start reciting Scripture to them right away or it will almost always set off fear/anger/repulsion, so I usually listen to a person for several months before asking about their spiritual beliefs. They have to know that I care about them as a person first.

Any seasoned Christian knows inside and out that the root of every problem is that people are not submitting to God's will. Again, for a believer, I see that as being as much of a given as brushing one's teeth. But my thoughts when I write these threads and posts is always, always about how God's will can be carried out thoughtfully and safely in real life.

The first thing I thought of when I read this post was of a young woman I slowly befriended and finally took to lunch. Before we finished eating, she begged me to stop over at her apartment, and I already knew why without her explaining. I told her, "I have to prove to your husband that I exist, don't I? And I have to prove that I'm a woman, or he will think you've been out with another man." She nodded silently

Her husband of course was perfectly cordial to me -- friendly and outgoing. But she had told me he kept loaded guns in the house and had threatened her on more than one occasion, saying, "I have no problem with my children growing up without a mother."

THESE are the kinds of things I'm thinking about when I write these threads.

OF COURSE the answer is that the world is broken and humans are not following God's will. Every Christian knows the answer to every single one of the world's problems. And I would love to see anyone who felt up to it volunteer to go in and demonstrate how to tell this husband that he needed to start obeying the will of God. THESE are the things I'm thinking about beyond "God has the answer," because we all KNOW God has the answer, but how should it be carried out in each situation?

Should there be a situation? Who can step in and hold the husband accountable so that he doesn't strike or threaten her again? Who is going to help her feed her kids if he refuses to support them? THESE are the answers I'm seeking from God and His people.

I want to know how to get people to stop hurting someone, or to stop using someone, or to stop doing a hundred thousand other horrible things that are going on daily in the lives of the people God seems to regularly send across my path.

I want to see someone effectively come in and model how to recite those verses to the people involved and actually get them to stop and change, because I can flat-out say, I don't know how to do it. All I'm ever able to do is hopefully somehow shield the ones who are receiving the most of the fallout. And it breaks my heart every time.

Even right now, someone I care about deeply is suffering at the hands of an entire... I should not say too much, as it's not my story to tell, but there are people involved who refuse to get any help or treatment, let alone listen to spiritual guidance. But my friend is suffering daily because of it, and these are the things that keep me awake at night.

So please, yes.

For the spiritual people who feel called by God to teach others how to be spiritual... Please, come on over and help, and step into the lives of my friend's abusers and show us how it's done; show us how to not just post walls of Scripture but how to actually translate them into action; show us how "the answer can be so simple," and I mean that sincerely and without sarcasm, because God sends people into my life all the time.

And I would love nothing more than to find people who know exactly what to do to bring about effective change, and to teach me how to do it.

In the past, I've had young female co-workers room with me temporarily to escape negative home situations, but I could never offer permanent solutions.

So if someone knows the secret to turning these circumstances around besides just with the things I already try -- fasting, praying, fellowship, praise, constant study -- by all means, please let me introduce you to these people and with all my heart, I want you to model how to get them to listen to and obey God, because it feels like my efforts are to no avail.

 

[seoulsearch]

How common is it for men to think like that? Do they expect a woman in her 20s or 30s to sit at home, do nothing, and live off her parents? Unless her parents or rich have a farm or a home business making soap and candles or something like that, she'll have to work somewhere. I would think if a woman expressed interest in the stay-at-home mom role that would be good enough for a lot of men who want rigidly defined gender roles. Is that not enough for those types of men?

My wife and I are praying about spouses for our children. It's tough out there for singles who are serious about their faith.

I can't give you an exact statistics, but there are some Christian subsets (who aren't even Amish, lol... sorry, lame joke) who believe in the man being the provider and the woman staying at home and having kids. Which is perfectly fine! After all, I come from a family of male providers and stay-at-home mothers (but most of them went to work after the children had grown.)

But in some of these circles, women are not allowed to have jobs at all, and if they do, they are viewed as being part of the feminist problem that is tearing down the Christian family model.

Then on the complete opposite of the spectrum... Some men will look down on you if you don't bring in enough money. Lol. I don't want to sound like I'm complaining or cutting men down at all... Let me tell you, these experiences have made me appreciate the good guys I do know 1,000 times more.

But if I may tell yet another old dating story... The guy told me he worked as an engineer, and when he asked about my job and when I told him I worked in retail, I could see the look of disapproval on his face.

As we later took a walk outside past my neighborhood, I mentioned that was where I lived. It was big enough that he would have had a hard time finding me, but it was in an upscale area. (I was able to stay there because of family at the time.)

Once he saw that... His disposition towards me became much more favorable. Lol. I know, he was probably trying to make sure I wasn't just another gold digger (as he had told me all about his ex-wife, also mentioning their former sex life as well...)

Goodness gracious. Once again, no thank you, lol.

It's a Catch 22 for all of us out here, whether you're a man or a woman.

I'm sorry for prattling on...

Thank you for your gracious endurance of my old war stories. And yes, you hit the nail on the head, indeed.

Thank you for taking the time to compassionately recognized the plights of singles.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

And I would love to see anyone who felt up to it volunteer to go in and demonstrate how to tell this husband that he needed to start obeying the will of God. THESE are the things I'm thinking about beyond "God has the answer," because we all KNOW God has the answer, but how should it be carried out in each situation?

With God as my witness, I would willingly be the man who volunteered to do just that. In fact, in just the last couple of weeks here, I offered my services to a female member here in relation to somehow speaking to her husband whom she has been having problems with. Her only request was that I pray for him, and I have been earnestly praying for him.

Anyhow, I definitely was not criticizing you for not posting scripture. I can understand why you might think that, but that is just poor communicating on my part. What I was trying to say is that when I have seen pertinent scriptures posted on a lot of different threads (and not just your threads, but your threads are definitely included), I see certain people just shrug them off as if they were not the word of God.

I know that real life is messy, and I also know (and God knows) that time, and time, and time again, I have willfully walked into such messes while trying to bring the cure, and I have literally put my own life in danger while doing so. in one instance, a woman was following a pair of young Christians around with a gun, and they called me for help, and I jumped into the fray.

It is like what I said on one of these threads recently. If there is an offending party, then I believe that they ought to be confronted, one on one, by the one they are offending. If that does not result in genuine repentance and reconciliation, then two or three other witnesses ought to step in, and, again, I would willfully be one of those witnesses, and I have been a multitude of times over the years. When I have stepped in, I have always stepped in with God's word on the matter.

Has there been genuine repentance and reconciliation every time?

No.

Not even close...but I tried.

Thankfully, there have been times when my involvement brought about positive results.

So, to your point, yes, God has the answers, but are we willing to be the vessels through whom he brings them?

I can only answer for myself on that, and my answer is "yes"...come what may.

 

[seoulsearch]

If a woman were to right a bit about wanting a Christian who was living out his faith... including no sex before marriage... does that weed out the naughty ones or does it run off the really conservative ones because she used the word 'sex.' I wonder if a woman mentioned that she was a virgin if that would attract the right kind of men or some of the wrong kind of men.

You're asking good questions here and I can only answer from my own experience, which includes talking to many other Christian singles over the years.

You can be as specific as you want in your profile but the truth is, a lot of people don't actually read what you write and/or just don't care -- all they generally care about is your picture. And even if you say you want a conservative Christian living out their faith, heaven only knows what you'll get. I only got a few responses and many of them were upfront about smoking substances.

They would say, "Well it's a plant, and God made plants, so it's natural," but it's not something I want to be around.

And personally, I would advise singles, especially women, to NEVER, EVER state publicly that you are a virgin for anyone to see.

I know it sounds crazy but within both Christian and secular circles, there seems to be a bit of a "virgin fetish," with some people purposely seeking virgins to "conquer." And all the things I'm saying seem to apply to both women AND men, as some of the men have said that when a woman found out they were a virgin, they would either drop him like a hot potato (lots of secular people on Christian sites) or would throw themselves at him all the more (also seeing him as a conquest.)

The unfortunate thing is, sometimes the more honest you and upfront you are, the more riff raff you are going to attract.

 

[presidente]

And personally, I would advise singles, especially women, to NEVER, EVER state publicly that you are a virgin for anyone to see.

I know it sounds crazy but within both Christian and secular circles, there seems to be a bit of a "virgin fetish," with some people purposely seeking virgins to "conquer." And all the things I'm saying seem to apply to both women AND men, as some of the men have said that when a woman found out they were a virgin, they would either drop him like a hot potato (lots of secular people on Christian sites) or would throw themselves at him all the more (also seeing him as a conquest.)

Getting dropped like a hot potato would be a good thing if one is looking for a fellow virgin or someone with decent enough moral values to value and respect virginity. If I were single and dating and a woman wanted to 'conquer' me over mentioning virginity, I could just say 'bye' and move on. Unless she's a wrestler or serious athlete, I wouldn't have safety concerns if she didn't know where I lived. Women are generally more vulnerable in that regard. If a man were getting lots of 'hits' for mentioning this from immoral women, that could be a concern.

In the Old Testament, they would call young virgin women virgins. Apparently they were distinguishing clothes that Tamar stopped wearing after she was attacked by Amnon. It should be a normal thing.

 

[seoulsearch]

Getting dropped like a hot potato would be a good thing if one is looking for a fellow virgin or someone with decent enough moral values to value and respect virginity. If I were single and dating and a woman wanted to 'conquer' me over mentioning virginity, I could just say 'bye' and move on. Unless she's a wrestler or serious athlete, I wouldn't have safety concerns if she didn't know where I lived. Women are generally more vulnerable in that regard. If a man were getting lots of 'hits' for mentioning this from immoral women, that could be a concern.

In the Old Testament, they would call young virgin women virgins. Apparently they were distinguishing clothes that Tamar stopped wearing after she was attacked by Amnon. It should be a normal thing.

I definitely agree that it might possibly weed posting one's virginal status might let a person know right away if someone has ill intentions...

It really does feel like spinning a wheel and getting the luck of the draw.

The one bad thing about a woman possibly rejecting a man over stating that he is a virgin is that it might possibly scare off Christian girls from abusive or formerly secular backgrounds who are now dedicated Christians.

I knew a girl who was, unfortunately, raised in a terrible family, but God got her away from it and she became a Christian. She was, however, too intimidated to talk to Christian guys, and most especially a virgin, because she felt far too "dirty" and ashamed to talk to such a person.

Her husband was a virgin and didn't care about her past -- he chose to pursue her anyway, and they eventually married. (She told me this as part of her testimony; it wasn't something they went around advertising of course.) But if it would have been up to her, she would not have even talked to him because of his status, just because she didn't feel good enough.

I'm a big believer in getting to know a person before talking about such personal things, but I can see where some people might want to show their cards right away in the hopes of finding more authenticity in return.

 

[Tall_Timbers]

I'm an abused husband in the physical and verbal categories, and my wife has had at least a few affairs. I chose to stay married even though I could divorce Biblically. Because I can doesn't mean I should. My wife pretended to be a Believer before I married her. I'll leave that to the Lord as to whether or not she's saved. She's got a lot of issues and as my knowledge grew it became easier to forgive. I reckon everything I've been through in my marriage will have helped to develop me into the person I'll be in all of eternity, so I thank God for everything that has happened in my life. I won't go into more detail on this Board as the population seems quite mixed here.

 

[presidente]

You're asking good questions here and I can only answer from my own experience, which includes talking to many other Christian singles over the years.

You can be as specific as you want in your profile but the truth is, a lot of people don't actually read what you write and/or just don't care -- all they generally care about is your picture. And even if you say you want a conservative Christian living out their faith, heaven only knows what you'll get. I only got a few responses and many of them were upfront about smoking substances.

I can see why a lot of people have given up on online dating or complain about it.

And personally, I would advise singles, especially women, to NEVER, EVER state publicly that you are a virgin for anyone to see.

I know it sounds crazy but within both Christian and secular circles, there seems to be a bit of a "virgin fetish," with some people purposely seeking virgins to "conquer." And all the things I'm saying seem to apply to both women AND men, as some of the men have said that when a woman found out they were a virgin, they would either drop him like a hot potato (lots of secular people on Christian sites) or would throw themselves at him all the more (also seeing him as a conquest.)

The unfortunate thing is, sometimes the more honest you and upfront you are, the more riff raff you are going to attract.

Btw, there do seem to be some nice women on this website.

In fact, I think that I might be falling in love with lanolin.

Pray for me...her!

lol.

I was really tempted to say, when I got backlash on the divorce thread, that maybe the divorced men were afraid I was hurting their chances with Lanolin, but she doesn't seem very interested in marriage.... based on my own observations.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

I was really tempted to say, when I got backlash on the divorce thread, that maybe the divorced men were afraid I was hurting their chances with Lanolin, but she doesn't seem very interested in marriage.... based on my own observations.

I was only joking (hence the "lol") about being in love with her, but she does certainly have some good qualities in my sight or estimation. At the same time, she does seem to have an aversion to men in general and to marriage. I am not saying that to judge her. Instead, I would genuinely be interested in knowing what happened in her life to give her such strong opinions, but that is really none of my business unless she would be willing to share.