10 BRIDEMAIDS

[Truthnightmare]

It is a very important and subtle point that Woman ((her name isn't Eve till later )) sinned before Adam did, but scripture tells us sin entered the world through one man - indicating Adam.

Paul says this because he knows the right interpretation of Genesis 3. it is fully deduced from what is written, not the revealing of a mystery.

Adam's sin is not like Woman's sin - he is not deceived.

Eve till later?

 

[Truthnightmare]

it is written,​

"The first man Adam became a living being."​

(1 Corinthians 15:45)​

Probably best for another discussion. But Adam was only the first man in the lineage that would lead to Christ.

 

[posthuman]

why did God choose a medium so fragile a man could break it?

is Moses's act a symbol of transgression or is it a Christological type?

why is his reaction to the sin of the people, to take away the handwriting, causing it to crumble into dust?

is he trying to save the people or to destroy them?

 

[posthuman]

Eve till later?

Adam changes her name after he hears the protoevangelion.

he knows that instead of being called 'taken out of man' she must be called 'mother of all the living'

very wise man, this Adam.
when he changes his wife's name, God declares him to have become like one of The "Us" - he is explicitly called a type and foreshadow of Christ in Romans.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Adam changes her name after he hears the protoevangelion.

O.. gotcha

 

[posthuman]

Wasn't the knowledge of good and evil known once Adam and Eve sinned?

How did they know it's good to obey God and evil to disobey Him before they ate?

 

[Cameron143]

How did they know it's good to obey God and evil to disobey Him before they ate?

I think there is an argument that on a number of levels for this:
1. Implicit in a restriction is the harm an allowance would be.
2. They had firsthand knowledge and experience of the goodness of God as an example.
3. They had a conscience that according to Romans 1 has the ability to ascertain right from wrong.

 

[Mem]

2. They had firsthand knowledge and experience of the goodness of God as an example.

Scripture tells us that unbelief is sin so I gather that is how sin was in the world before the law.
For example, Abel's sacrifice pleased the Lord, I suppose because it counted on the goodness of God's grace to restore? the 'loss'?, but Cain is told that sin lies at the door and this perhaps alludes to Cain's unbelief, considering that is followed with, 'if you do right,' and scripture tells us that faith is counted as righteousness. So in essence, it seems that God was saying, "Believe in Me, know My true character..." and that which Abel had right.

 

[Mem]

In Genesis 4, when God did not accept Cain's offering, He told him if he did well would it not be accepted? It seems God believed he knew what was right and what was wrong.

What it boils down to is that the will of God is that we believe in His Salvation and believing so rightly, our conduct follows our recognition of His goodness and grace. Fearing God rightly, we trust Him for life, and fearing wrongly, like that God would fail to provide and so fearing lack (as more powerful than God) leads to stealing, etc.

 

[Magenta]

Very interesting Magenta I will ponder on this.

Thanks and be blessed.

Colossians 2:16-17
Thank you, and thank you also for the inspiration! .

 

[cv5]

very wise man, this Adam.

Evidently even more wise and intellectually brilliant than Satan himself.
Adam was not deceived after all. Despite this.....

Eze 28:12
Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

Even the most powerful and wisest of Angels dare not contend in a battle of wits with the anointed Cherub.

Jde 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

Heya KCS, well let’s look at it a bit deeper, and perhaps my explanation can remove any contradiction you see.

Ok, you reference {Romans chapter 5} which we shall shall draw heavily from here in our exegesis.

For until [before] the law, sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed[charged] when there is no law" {Rom 5:13}. (I trust that you are using the reliable King James Version Bible). It does not say that they were not doing things that we now (since the Law of Moses) call sin. For without God first saying to us: "Thou shalt not...," there is no wrong nor penalty in doing the particular thing.

In other words, doing something that God doesn't want done, is not a sin until God says "Don't do this, or don’t do that;" Then it becomes sin to do the thing because you have been told and warned not to do it. You are then and only then accountable for that particular deed.

Cain, while he was indeed the murderer of his brother Able, was not charged by God as a murderer would be charged according to God’s law of ‘life for life’. For it was not until after the flood of Noah that God first gave the specific command against murder: "Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man" {Gen9:6}.


And above, as with all commands of God, He also gave us the consequences for violating same, i.e., "by man shall his blood be shed". God did not have Adam to execute Cain for his transgression, with was his duty under Old testament Hebrew Law as the father of the victim; But the Law was not yet given unto man. We know from the Law (Torah: Genesis-Deuteronomy) which was given to Moses on the Mount, that all murderers are to be tried fairly and promptly executed by stoning. But God, while He did ‘try’ Cain for killing Able and indeed found him guilty {Gen 4:1O}, He did not execute His own Law upon him, which calls for the death penalty. Cain was simply cast out of the Garden of Eden, for he did not belong there because of his deed. God even went so far as to protect Cain from others (6th day creation) who might seek to kill him {Gen 4:1 5}. This would be strange treatment for a murderer had we not understood that Cain could not have violated a law which was not yet given unto men.

So when you read in Romans: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that [because] all have sinned" {Rom 5:12}, you must understand that sin could only have been committed by the man Adam first because he received the Law from God first, i.e., regarding the tree of the knowledge of good AND evil. Therefore, while there were 'misdeeds' done in the world, sin had not entered the world until the first Law was given and violated, this simply happened to fall upon Adam, thus, through Adam sin entered the world because through Adam the Law entered the world.

Kind of a cool subject, you should start a thread on it, maybe we can learn more together.

Ver. 13. For until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed where there is no law.​

​

The phrase till the Law some think he used of the time before the giving of the Law — that of Abel, for instance, or of Noah, or of Abraham— till Moses was born. ​

​

What was the sin in those days, at this rate? Some say he means that in Paradise. For hitherto it was not done away, (he would say,) but the fruit of it was yet in vigor. For it had borne that death whereof all partake, which prevailed and lorded over us. Why then does he proceed, But sin is not imputed when there is no law? ​

​

It was by way of objection from the Jews, say they who have spoken on our side, that he laid this position down and said, if there be no sin without the Law, how came death to consume all those before the Law? But to me it seems that the sense presently to be given has more to be said for it, and suits better with the Apostle's meaning. And what sense is this? In saying, that till the Law sin was in the world, what he seems to me to mean is this, that after the Law was given the sin resulting from the transgression of it prevailed, and prevailed too so long as the Law existed. ​

​

For sin, he says, can have no existence if there be no law. If then it was this sin, he means, from the transgression of the Law that brought forth death, how was it that all before the Law died? For if it is in sin that death has its origin, but when there is no law, sin is not imputed, how came death to prevail? ​

​

​

- Chrysostom, excerpt from homily 10 on Romans, circa 392 AD​

Lest not Forget that the Lord GOD was in the garden with Adam and later Eve. He asked Adam also to name the beasts of the earth, it is also easy to imagine that it is highly probable that Almighty God did instruct ( a proto law perhaps?) Adam on certain things, we do not have any detailed writings but surely they knew how to behave in the Holy presence of GOD.

Just a thought

 

[cv5]

it is highly probable that Almighty God did instruct ( a proto law perhaps?) Adam on certain things, we do not have any detailed writings but surely they knew how to behave in the Holy presence of GOD.

Highly probable. Evidently, these were formal worship services so ordained by God post-fall.
And Cain got some valuable "negative feedback" which he tragically ignored.

Gen 4:3
And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
Gen 4:4
And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Gen 4:5
But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Gen 4:6
And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Lest not Forget that the Lord GOD was in the garden with Adam and later Eve. He asked Adam also to name the beasts of the earth, it is also easy to imagine that it is highly probable that Almighty God did instruct ( a proto law perhaps?) Adam on certain things, we do not have any detailed writings but surely they knew how to behave in the Holy presence of GOD.

Just a thought

I can see that, I don’t hold to the traditional account. I believe God created mankind in Genesis 1, and they were behaving badly.
I believe Adam was formed in Genesis 2, and this is the first time we have documentation of God telling man not to do something.

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

I can see that, I don’t hold to the traditional account. I believe God created mankind in Genesis 1, and they were behaving badly.
I believe Adam was formed in Genesis 2, and this is the first time we have documentation of God telling man not to do something.

i see it differently, GOD's creations step by step in gen 1, then more specifics on the creation of man, it is simply a continuation with more details. I am certain Adam was the first.

Blessings

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adamwas made a quickening spirit.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

Blessings

 

[Truthnightmare]

i see it differently, GOD's creations step by step in gen 1, then more specifics on the creation of man, it is simply a continuation with more details. I am certain Adam was the first.

Blessings

That creates a problem for me because I see differences in the account

In Genesis chapter One
They all (plural) were CREATED.
Created is Hebrew word #1254 bara'
"...male and female created he them" (Gen 1:27)

But in Genesis chapter Two
Adam alone (singular) is FORMED
Formed is Hebrew word #3335 yatsar
"...in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed." (Gen 2:8)

Genesis 1) They are created male and female at the same time. No 'Adam's Rib' here!

Genesis 2) Adam is formed some time before Eve. She later being made from him.

Genesis 1) They were simply created, human and mortal.
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Heb 9:27).

Genesis 2) Adam given the breath of life, became a living soul.
(Adam would have lived forever had he not fell - see Gen 6:3 "for that he also is flesh"). Ask yourself, "also," as in whom else?

Genesis 1) They are told to multiply.
"...Be fruitful and multiply..." (Gen 1:28)

Genesis 2) No such command is given to Adam and Eve
(Adam's family was told to multiply after the flood; i.e., Noah's family was told in Gen 9:1).
Mankind given dominion over animals and fish.
Adam was a farmer.
The animals were wild animals and the plants were wild plants. No names given. They were domestic animals and crop plants.
Adam named these.
There was not yet rain. "...went up a mist from the earth..."(Gen 2:6)
The creation was completed. All the various
races, men and women alike, were created.
THEN ------ >>>

But after that, in Gen 2:5, God saw that He "did not have a man to till the ground" (farmer).
So God then FORMED Adam.

But probably the most striking evidence that Genesis chapter One and Genesis chapter Two are not speaking of the same event would be:

In Gen 1, the plants and animals were created BEFORE man(kind) was created.

In Gen 2, the plants and animals were formed AFTER the man Adam was formed.

Nice to speak with you again. And may I ask, are you familiar with Hebrew article and particle?

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

That creates a problem for me because I see differences in the account

In Genesis chapter One
They all (plural) were CREATED.
Created is Hebrew word #1254 bara'
"...male and female created he them" (Gen 1:27)

But in Genesis chapter Two
Adam alone (singular) is FORMED
Formed is Hebrew word #3335 yatsar
"...in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed." (Gen 2:8)

Genesis 1) They are created male and female at the same time. No 'Adam's Rib' here!

Genesis 2) Adam is formed some time before Eve. She later being made from him.

Genesis 1) They were simply created, human and mortal.
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Heb 9:27).

Genesis 2) Adam given the breath of life, became a living soul.
(Adam would have lived forever had he not fell - see Gen 6:3 "for that he also is flesh"). Ask yourself, "also," as in whom else?

Genesis 1) They are told to multiply.
"...Be fruitful and multiply..." (Gen 1:28)

Genesis 2) No such command is given to Adam and Eve
(Adam's family was told to multiply after the flood; i.e., Noah's family was told in Gen 9:1).
Mankind given dominion over animals and fish.
Adam was a farmer.
The animals were wild animals and the plants were wild plants. No names given. They were domestic animals and crop plants.
Adam named these.
There was not yet rain. "...went up a mist from the earth..."(Gen 2:6)
The creation was completed. All the various
races, men and women alike, were created.
THEN ------ >>>

But after that, in Gen 2:5, God saw that He "did not have a man to till the ground" (farmer).
So God then FORMED Adam.

But probably the most striking evidence that Genesis chapter One and Genesis chapter Two are not speaking of the same event would be:

In Gen 1, the plants and animals were created BEFORE man(kind) was created.

In Gen 2, the plants and animals were formed AFTER the man Adam was formed.

Nice to speak with you again. And may I ask, are you familiar with Hebrew article and particle?

same here, I like to discuss things with you. I am not familiar with Hebrew article and particle unfortunately.

Lke I wrote Gen 1 account was just a quick overview, details came in the following chapters, these texts are old, a translation problem perhaps? it would not surprise me. I rely heavily on the Holy Spirit guiding me with understanding, it never failed me before it is a gift I always had but did not use it much in my life but that was a mistake I will not repeat. I am far from knowing everything in scripture, some things are closed to me and I have quite a lot to learn but I am making progress. I also have a gift for knowing some things that will occur within our lifetime, It never failed me but I never speak of it except here sometimes. All I can tell you with certainty is that Jacob's trouble is at our doorstep, I was warned in spirit many consecutive days about it. Also I saw the word ""exodus""in my mind many times per day for over a month I believe this will be within this generation. I have tried to put the 2 together and from what i read in Jeremiah 30 which points to the great tribulation, the return of Christ and the restauration of Israel and Judah.

Blessings

 

[Magenta]

Adam would have lived forever had he not fell

That's a stretch.

 

[Truthnightmare]

same here, I like to discuss things with you. I am not familiar with Hebrew article and particle unfortunately.

Lke I wrote Gen 1 account was just a quick overview, details came in the following chapters, these texts are old, a translation problem perhaps? it would not surprise me. I rely heavily on the Holy Spirit guiding me with understanding, it never failed me before it is a gift I always had but did not use it much in my life but that was a mistake I will not repeat. I am far from knowing everything in scripture, some things are closed to me and I have quite a lot to learn but I am making progress. I also have a gift for knowing some things that will occur within our lifetime, It never failed me but I never speak of it except here sometimes. All I can tell you with certainty is that Jacob's trouble is at our doorstep, I was warned in spirit many consecutive days about it. Also I saw the word ""exodus""in my mind many times per day for over a month I believe this will be within this generation. I have tried to put the 2 together and from what i read in Jeremiah 30 which points to the great tribulation, the return of Christ and the restauration of Israel and Judah.

Blessings

Welcome to the club bro, the amount of knowledge that escapes me is paramount.

Basically article and particle allows the reader to denote. It lets us identify whether the word “man” means mankind, people, races, etc.
Or if the word “man” means one specific man.
This is utilized heavily in Genesis.