Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[cv5]

Again, everyone Christ died for, are preserved forever. Before the elect are even called in time, they have been sanctified by God the Father and Preserved in Christ Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Frankly, in my opinion, OSAS has everything to do with entering into the New Covenant. Once you are in, you are in. THEN and thereafter God "keeps you in".

The children of Israel were PREVENTED from returning to Egypt, despite their yearnings. The waters of the Gulf of Aqaba closed up, and that was that.

 

[Underwhosewings]

I wonder if Adolf Hitler is in heaven.
Sounds here like maybe.

 

[gb9]

Frankly, in my opinion, OSAS has everything to do with entering into the New Covenant. Once you are in, you are in. THEN and thereafter God "keeps you in".

The children of Israel were PREVENTED from returning to Egypt, despite their yearnings. The waters of the Gulf of Aqaba closed up, and that was that.

God kept His promise. despite all the complaining, doubt, and at times outright rebellion , He led Israel to the border of Canaan, and they refused to go in.

the only thing that will keep one out of the Kingdom is refusal to believe in Jesus, the same thing Israel did with their refusal to trust Yahweh and go foreward.

 

[brightfame52]

Frankly, in my opinion, OSAS has everything to do with entering into the New Covenant. Once you are in, you are in. THEN and thereafter God "keeps you in".

The children of Israel were PREVENTED from returning to Egypt, despite their yearnings. The waters of the Gulf of Aqaba closed up, and that was that.

Your opinion means nothing, its what Gods word of truth says. The elect, the believer, even before they believe, and while ungodly, are preserved forever unto eternal glory.

 

[TheLearner]

do you know the difference between the church IS his body. and he is just the head of the body?

I think that is I cor 12

 

[TheLearner]

not keeping up

 

[justpassinthrough]

@justpassinthrough
No save judas the one who betrayed Him

My question was do you believe His disciples that He taught privately were unsaved Jews?


Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” Matthew 24:3



Either they were disciples of Jesus Christ or they were unsaved Jews.


At this point, Judas had not fallen away.







JPT

 

[SpeakTruth101]

OSAS is impossibe accoring to this and other passages.

2 Peter 2:20-22, “For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the set-apart command delivered unto them. For them the proverb has proved true, “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “A washed sow returns to her rolling in the mud.”

 

[PennEd]

Either they were disciples of Jesus Christ or they were unsaved Jews.

A straw man choice you have set up.

NO ONE was "saved" until Jesus's death and resurrection.
There were, and are, "disciples" or followers of Christ, that were not, and are not saved.

 

[PennEd]

OSAS is impossibe accoring to this and other passages.

2 Peter 2:20-22, “For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the set-apart command delivered unto them. For them the proverb has proved true, “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “A washed sow returns to her rolling in the mud.”

Yep. They were dogs, that had the KNOWLEDGE of the truth but NOT The Truth. It doesn't say they were regenerated, or born again.

And I don't know about you, but I'm not a dog. I'm a sheep. The DOG returns to it's vomit, NOT the sheep.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Yep. They were dogs, that had the KNOWLEDGE of the truth but NOT The Truth. It doesn't say they were regenerated, or born again.

And I don't know about you, but I'm not a dog. I'm a sheep. The DOG returns to it's vomit, NOT the sheep.

It says: "For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah"

2 Peter 2:20-22, “For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the set-apart command delivered unto them. For them the proverb has proved true, “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “A washed sow returns to her rolling in the mud.”

 

[mailmandan]

OSAS is impossibe accoring to this and other passages.

2 Peter 2:20-22, “For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the set-apart command delivered unto them. For them the proverb has proved true, “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “A washed sow returns to her rolling in the mud.”

Not so. Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.*

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (2 Peter 1:4)

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Not so. Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.*

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (2 Peter 1:4)

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.

SO you think one of the disciples of Yahshua/Jesus saing ""For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah" "

Means they just know about him? How then did they "escaped the defilements of the world through" Nobody "escaped the defilements of the world through" without being in the Messiah.

Peter met and travelled with Him, most people have never done so.... so for everone else it would be knowledge of Him....

Luke 9:62, “But יהושע said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the reign of Elohim.”

Hebrews 10:26-31, “For if we sin purposely after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a slaughter offering for sins, but some fearsome anticipation of judgment, and a fierce fire which is about to consume the opponents. Anyone who has disregarded the Torah of Mosheh dies without compassion on the witness of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think shall he deserve who has trampled the Son of Elohim underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was set apart as common, and insulted the Spirit of favour? For we know Him who has said, “Vengeance is Mine, I shall repay, says יהוה.” And again, “יהוה shall judge His people.” It is fearsome to fall into the hands of the living Elohim.”

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Here is another one:

Hebrews 6:4-12, “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Set-apart Spirit, and have tasted the good Word of the Mighty One and the powers of the age to come, and fall away, to renew them again to repentance – having impaled for themselves the Son of the Mighty One again, and put Him to open shame. For ground that is drinking the rain often falling on it, and is bearing plants fit for those by whom it is tilled, receives blessing from the Mighty One, but if it brings forth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and near to being cursed, and ends up by being burned. But although we speak in this way, beloved, we are persuaded, concerning you, of better matters which possess deliverance. For the Mighty One is not unrighteous to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His Name, in that you have attended to the set-apart ones, and still attend. And we desire that each one of you show the same eagerness, to the entire confirmation of expectation until the end, in order that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through belief and patience inherit the promises."

those who were once enlightened, - have an understanding and acceptance of the truth of YHWH

and have tasted the heavenly gift, - the gift of mercy

and have become partakers of the Set-apart Spirit, - they had the Spirit, that is only given to thos in Messiah

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

 

[cv5]

OSAS is impossibe accoring to this and other passages.

2 Peter 2:20-22, “For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the set-apart command delivered unto them. For them the proverb has proved true, “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “A washed sow returns to her rolling in the mud.”

OSAS is without doubt the state of the believer.

Heb 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Heb 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Heb 10:17
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

 

[cv5]

Here is another one:

Hebrews 6:4-12, “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Set-apart Spirit, and have tasted the good Word of the Mighty One and the powers of the age to come, and fall away, to renew them again to repentance – having impaled for themselves the Son of the Mighty One again, and put Him to open shame. For ground that is drinking the rain often falling on it, and is bearing plants fit for those by whom it is tilled, receives blessing from the Mighty One, but if it brings forth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and near to being cursed, and ends up by being burned. But although we speak in this way, beloved, we are persuaded, concerning you, of better matters which possess deliverance. For the Mighty One is not unrighteous to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His Name, in that you have attended to the set-apart ones, and still attend. And we desire that each one of you show the same eagerness, to the entire confirmation of expectation until the end, in order that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through belief and patience inherit the promises."

You had better figure out what those passages are saying. Because it DEFINITELY is not saying that you "lose you salvation".

 

[SpeakTruth101]

OSAS is without doubt the state of the believer.

Heb 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Heb 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Heb 10:17
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

read a little farther in that SAME chapter:

Hebrews 10:26-31, “For if we sin purposely after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a slaughter offering for sins, but some fearsome anticipation of judgment, and a fierce fire which is about to consume the opponents. Anyone who has disregarded the Torah of Mosheh dies without compassion on the witness of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think shall he deserve who has trampled the Son of Elohim underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was set apart as common, and insulted the Spirit of favour? For we know Him who has said, “Vengeance is Mine, I shall repay, says יהוה.” And again, “יהוה shall judge His people.” It is fearsome to fall into the hands of the living Elohim.”

 

[cv5]

read a little farther in that SAME chapter:

Hebrews 10:26-31, “For if we sin purposely after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a slaughter offering for sins, but some fearsome anticipation of judgment, and a fierce fire which is about to consume the opponents. Anyone who has disregarded the Torah of Mosheh dies without compassion on the witness of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think shall he deserve who has trampled the Son of Elohim underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was set apart as common, and insulted the Spirit of favour? For we know Him who has said, “Vengeance is Mine, I shall repay, says יהוה.” And again, “יהוה shall judge His people.” It is fearsome to fall into the hands of the living Elohim.”

Yea.....the newbie always blunders about incoherently massacring those passages.

Who is that book written to? HEBREWS. Your first clue.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

You had better figure out what those passages are saying. Because it DEFINITELY is not saying that you "lose you salvation".

This is salvation - an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens

I think a lot of people mix up recieving His Spirit

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

with a new eternal body.

1 Peter 1:3-9, “Blessed be the Strength and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah, who according to His great compassion has caused us to be born again to a living expectation through the resurrection of יהושע Messiah from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens for you, who are protected by the power of Yah through belief, for a deliverance ready to be revealed in the last time, in which you exult, even though for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by manifold trials, in order that the proving of your belief – much more precious than gold that perishes, and proven by fire – might be found to result in praise and respect and esteem at the revelation of יהושע Messiah, whom having not seen, you love; in whom you exult with unspeakable and esteemed joy, yet not seeing, but believing, obtaining the goal of your belief: a deliverance of lives.”

Mat 24:29-31, “Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other.”

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Yea.....the newbie always blunders about incoherently massacring those passages.

Who is that book written to? HEBREWS. Your first clue.

ohh so first its not meaning what I want when you were quoting it, I point out the rest of the same chapter you quoted, now im a newbie and the book is not for us...why did you quote it then? wow really.... that does not work with me