OT Gospel of the Kingdom - NT Gospel of the grace of God

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FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,274
436
83
#1
The phrase gospel of the kingdom & references to “the kingdom of God” and “the kingdom of heaven”

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: [ 1,,G932, basileia ] KINGDOM
"The fundamental principle of the Kingdom is declared in the words of the Lord spoken in the midst of a company of Pharisees, "the Kingdom of God is in the midst of you," Luke 17:21, marg., that is, where the King is, there is the Kingdom.
Kingdom - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

OT Gospel of the Kingdom: Israel only! Preaching begins with John the Baptist 25-26AD, is retired 70AD/Temple destroyed. Will be reinstated after the catching-up of the Church (Thes 4)

NT Gospel of the GRACE of God: Begins with Paul's return from Arabia (Gal 1) 35-37AD & is still operating. Will be retired at the catching up-up of the Church (Thes 4)

A glimpse of God's promised coming Kingdom to ISRAEL:
2 Sam 7:12-13, 1 Chron 17:10-14, Isa 9:6-7,11:1-9, Dan 2:44,7:13-14, Mic 4:1-5, Zec 14:1-21, Lk 1:32-33.

All the above OT verses are coming kingdom promises God made to ISRAEL'S fathers (Rom 15:8). Necessary context in understanding the kingdom messaging. (Matt 3:2).

Matt 15:24 Messiah answered & said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(SCRIPTURE PROCLAIMS: Jesus was sent, ONLY, to the lost sheep of the "House of Israel")

Rom 15:8 I say that Messiah was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
(SCRIPTURE PROCLAIMS: Jesus was sent to minister to the circumcision/JEWS. To fulfil OT promises made to the ISRAEL'S fathers)

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
(MY NOTE: It's SIX years after Jesus death & resurrection. Jewish converts that fled Israel. Running for their lives from law zealots like Saul. They are still sharing Christ with other JEWS ONLY!).

Acts 10:28 Peter said unto them, Ye know how that it is an """unlawful""" thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean
(BTW: Jesus died on the cross 7 yrs before Peter tells Cornelius/an Italian/gentile "IT'S UNLAWFUL" for a Jew to hang out with a gentile. Remember, Jesus faithfully kept the law)

Matt 15:26 Jesus said; It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
(MY NOTE Jesus calls this gentile woman of Canaan a dog. Jews often referred to Gentiles as "dogs" Matt 7:6 )

Gal 4:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
(SCRIPTURE PROCLAIMS: God sent forth his SON """made under the law""" to """redeem those > UNDER the law/JEWS""")

Jesus' in the flesh mission, was to the lost sheep of the lost sheep of the ""House of Israel"" ONLY!

Gentiles (like dogs) were considered unclean/ungodly (living outside of OT covenant seals & purification laws). Just being in their presence could make a Jew ceremonially unclean/impure (Jn 18:28)

A/the new covenant/testament doesn't/can't begin until after Jesus (the testator) dies.

Heb 9:
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
(MY NOTE: Jesus taught, lived, kept, & fulfilled old covenant Mosaic laws. There is no new covenant until after Jesus (the Testator) dies.

Study tips from a pro:
Myles Coverdale; Bible theologian/translator. He wrote the Coverdale Bible. Say's; don't judge scripture by what is spoken, or written only.

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.

Who was preaching the gospel of the kingdom message? Jesus, John & the 12! ALL under the Mosaic law covenant!
Who were they preaching to? JEWS UNDER THE LAW! Reread Matt 15:24, Rom 15:8 above.
What's the timeframe? PRE-DEATH!
Where? ISRAEL!
To what intent? REDEEM THOSE UNDER THE LAW/JEWS! Reread Gal 4:4-5 above.

The gospel of the kingdom message Jesus preached was for Israel ONLY! This message is void of Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection. Even though Jesus told the 12 He would suffer & die. They didn't UNDERSTAND! (Mk 9:31-4, Lk 18:33-34, Lk 9:44-45, Jn 12:1). Their OT God given Levitical animal sacrificial system dealt with (covered) Israel's sin.

QUESTION: Did John or Jesus ever say? Repent be baptized (in his/my name) & receive the Holy Spirit? NO! There repent message was: ISRAEL! You're headed the wrong way REPENT/turn back to the Lord your God!

Enter (covenant mixing confusion) Peter Acts 2, read the text He is preaching to Jews only, during a mandatory (every male over 20 ys) trip to Jerusalem, MILLIONS are in attendance for the required Pentecost feast.

Acts 2:5 Jews out of every nation under heaven, (Acts 2:14) Ye men of Judaea & all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, (Acts 2:22) Ye men of Israel, (Acts 2:36) let ALL the HOUSE OF ISRAEL know, that God made that same Jesus, WHOM YE CRUCIFIED, both Lord and Christ.!

The Holy Spirit had filled/indwelt the 120 (no mention of any of them being water baptized 1st) Peter tells the Jews listening, that Jesus (whom you allowed to be killed) was Messiah & has risen (I've seen & spoke with Him) They are sorry & say what can we do? He tells them you (in unbelief) allowed Him to be killed. Repent from unbelief to BELIEF & BELIEVE! He was our long promised (to our fathers) Messiah/Redeemer/Son of God .

You can't force gentiles into Peter's message. Gentiles had NO PART in the All Jewish Temple Mt event (Eph 2:12, Acts 10:45).

Eph 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(SCRIPTURE PROCLAIMS: Pre-death & resurrection, gentiles were: ""strangers living outside covenant seals of promise"" ""having no hope"" living without God in the world)

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(SCRIPTURE PROCLAIMS: But NOW/post death & resurrection. The blood of Christ has brought you near.)

Acts 10 records the dispensational message change. From the OT ALL JEWISH gospel of the kingdom promise. To the NT gospel of the GRACE of God message.

The NT good new/gospel of the GRACE of God (void Mosaic law adherence (Acts 15). Is open to ALL, Jew & gentile.

Acts 10, Seven years after the (Acts 2) Temple Mt Holy Spirit out pouring. Peter has a vision, it tells him to eat unclean creatures. Peter argues with the Lord 3 times & the Lord says. Peter, if I make/say it's clean, ITS CLEAN! Peter then goes with the unclean gentiles that had already been traveling to find Peter.

Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

(MY NOTE: These gentiles don't repent of anything, don't bring a animal sin offering, adhere to any Mosaic laws or get water baptized 1st! They hear about Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection, BELIEVE (FAITH ALONE) & Christ (who knows everyone true heart) baptizes them with His FOREVER indwelling (Jn 14:16) eternal salvation sealing (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 4:4) Holy Spirit. Also see Eph 1:13. They HEARD, BELIEVED & RECEIVED! Christ's FOREVER indwelling Holy Spirit. They partake in water baptism AFTER the NEW BIRTH/BORN AGAIN event )

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: If any gentile had received the Holy Spirit 7 years ago at the Acts 2 Pentecost. These Jews (to include Peter) wouldn't have been astonished!)

Next the Risen Lord gives Saul/Paul the NT gospel of the GRACE of God message (Acts 20:24) and sends him to gentiles/all other nations (Acts 26:17)

TODAY'S NT gospel of the GRACE of God message is: Jesus died for your sins, was buried & rose on the 3rd day (1 Cor 15:1-4) for your justification (Rom 4:25)

Under TODAY'S NT gospel salvation is offered by the GRACE of God & accessed by FAITH (Eph 2:8, Rom 5:1-2) placed in Jesus sin atoning sacrifice.

Although salvation comes by Gods GRACE & is accessed by FAITH ALONE. There are some prerequisite understandings needed.

You must acknowledge God is, understand you've sinned (Rom 3:23) against a sovereign Creator God's/JESUS (Jn 1:3 & 10, Col 1:16 & 17, 1 Cor 8:6, Eph 3:9) & are under a death sentence (Rom 6:23) & in need of rescue.

That Jesus is the only path to a full sin pardon. You REPENT from your UNBELIEF & ask Him to come into/indwell your heart, forgive & rescue you from your sins. He has promised to accept all true confessions (1 Jn 1:9). Jesus knows every heart & is promises are absolutely faithful.

Understand with your confession, you're agreeing to marriage union commitment. You become His BETROTHED, the Holy Spirit is His promise (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:3,14, 4:4) an engagement ring Earnest (Noun) - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

He accepts every true seeker that approaches with a contrite heart. At acceptance Jesus gives the convert GIFTS: His Holy Spirit (Acts 10:45, 11:17), A declaration of righteousness (Rom 4:5 & 5:17-18) & eternal life (Rom 6:23, Jn 5:24).
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,747
609
113
#2
TODAY'S NT gospel of the GRACE of God message is: Jesus died for your sins, was buried & rose on the 3rd day (1 Cor 15:1-4) for your justification (Rom 4:25)
I think it is better said ----NT gospel of the GRACE of God message is:----

Jesus Shed His Blood to cover all sin for all people for all time --- His Death did not forgive our sins ------it was His Blood that forgave our sins ------------Jesus death on the cross and His resurrection defeated the 2nd death and did away with the Curse of the Law bringing back the Blessings and eternal life ----and our Faith in Jesus and what He accomplished for us makes us righteous ------

Everywhere Jesus shed His blood He purchased back something that Satan took from us ------


you can read all here -----I just posted 3 here ------

Seven Places Jesus Shed His Blood & its significance
https://nathanandemilia.wordpress.com/2016/02/29/seven-places-jesus-shed-his-blood-its-significance/

1) The Sweating of Blood (In the garden of Gethsemane

This signifies that Jesus Won Back Our Willpower to resist temptation because He overcame the greatest temptation that was so intense, it caused Him to sweat blood.

2) The stripes on Jesus back and shedding of blood at the whipping post.

This signifies that Jesus has won back our Health. His body was broken so ours could be made whole.

3) He was bruised and suffered Internal bleeding from being beaten.

This signifies that Jesus won back our right standing with God & delivered us from our iniquities (Wickedness/Sin)
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
#3
Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: [ 1,,G932, basileia ] KINGDOM
NT Gospel of the GRACE of God: Begins with Paul's return from Arabia (Gal 1) 35-37AD & is still operating. Will be retired at the catching up-up of the Church (Thes 4)
Is Vine's teaching a destruction or casting aside of Yahshua/Jesus teachings while on earth?

Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Comforter – the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you."

John/Yahanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Why do so many people cast aside everything He taught for another?

John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,274
436
83
#5
I think it is better said ----NT gospel of the GRACE of God message is:----

Jesus Shed His Blood to cover all sin for all people for all time --- His Death did not forgive our sins ------it was His Blood that forgave our sins ------------Jesus death on the cross and His resurrection defeated the 2nd death and did away with the Curse of the Law bringing back the Blessings and eternal life ----and our Faith in Jesus and what He accomplished for us makes us righteous
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,274
436
83
#6
You're welcome to think & promote whatever you choose. BTW your self promoted ""better way"" lacked a main ingredient > FAITH!

Without FAITH, His precious perpetual sin removing/cleansing God blood offering/sacrifice can't be applied.

I'll stick with the NT gospel of the GRACE of God message cited in the OP, found here:

1 Cor 15
1 Now brothers and sisters, let me remind you [once again] of the good news [of salvation] which I preached to you, which you welcomed and accepted and on which you stand [by faith].

2 By this faith you are saved [reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose], if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain [just superficially and without complete commitment].

3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold],

4 and that He was buried, and that He was [bodily] raised on the third day according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold],
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians 15&version=AMP

Recap:
Written to believers (1 Cor 1:2)
Vs 1, The good news/GOSPEL of your SALVATION, I preached to you, which you stand by FAITH!

Vs 2, By this FAITH you are SAVED, reborn from above, spiritually transformed, renewed & set apart for His purpose.

Vs 3, I passed on to you as FIRST IMPORTANCE: Christ died for our sins, Vs 4, He was buried & raised on the 3rd day according to Scripture

^^^^^That's the NT Gospel/Good news of Jesus the Christ/NT Gospel of the Grace of God ^^^^^
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,274
436
83
#7
The Op cited verses on Israel's promised coming kingdom. Find a few here:

Isa 9:
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Isa 11:
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Dan 7:
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Zechariah Chapter 14 the most comprehensive look

Lk 1:
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

The gospel of Israel's promised coming kingdom is ALL about Israel (not promised to gentiles). It's an ALL Jewish message (preached by John the Baptist, Jesus & the 12). During the Mosaic law dispensational administration. Then the gospel of of the GRACE of God message (for today's Body of Christ/Church) that the Risen Lord Jesus gave to Paul. If under today's GRACE dispensation administration

John the Baptist info:
Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
(MY NOTE John's water baptism, or any water baptism, can't/doesn't remove/forgive sin)

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the ""baptism of repentance"", saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

(MY NOTE: John the Baptist is sent to preach, the baptism of repentance. That they should BELIEVE on Him that would come after John, that is, on Christ Jesus. Who would bring remission/forgiveness/full pardon from all their sins.)

Lk 1:
76 “And you, child, will be called a prophet of the Most High; For you will go on before the Lord (the Messiah) to prepare His ways;

77 To give His people the knowledge of salvation By the forgiveness of their sins,

Jn 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

(MY NOTE: John say's Jesus will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. When that happens ALL your sins are taken away/removed/forgiven

BTW: Repent & be baptized to receive the Holy Spirit isn't the message for today's Body of Christ. You can find today's message in my reply in post #6.

DISPENSATION: A mode of dealing, an arrangement, or administration of affairs "a stewardship. A God given stewardship of time sensitive cycle's of truth managed/administered accordingly.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
(MY NOTE: Sundry = Many parts or portions & Divers manners = many ways. God spoke to the fathers in different times in different ways. Example: Adam - Noah - Abraham - Moses.)

Col 1:
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
(MY NOTE: Paul is appointed a dispensation/stewardship/administration as: A minister or God's word.)

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
(MY NOTE: Mystery - implies knowledge withheld, a secret held "in time" to be revealed. Find defining links Here:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
(MY NOTE: Vs 25: God appointed Paul the stewardship administer to gentiles in relation to Christs Holy Spirit indwelling body/the Church)

1 Cor 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
(MY NOTE: Paul says: The stewardship/dispensation/management of the gospel, of the GRACE of God (see Acts 20:24) was given/committed to Paul)

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
(MY NOTE: Paul was chosen/made to be a minister, to manage the dispensing of the gospel, of the grace of God. Paul say's, the word of God is given to me/HIM, to share with us)

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
(MY NOTE: The management/dispensation/stewardship of the gospel, of the grace of God (See Acts 20:24) was given to Paul, to give, to us)

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him
(MY NOTE: The dispensation/arrangement or administration by God, by which in "the fullness of the times" (or seasons) God will sum up all things, that are in Christ)

Jesus gospel of the kingdom message was under of dispensation of law, where self-works were required.

Paul's gospel of the GRACE of God (given to Paul by the Risen Lord Jesus (Gal 1:2, Acts 20:24) is under of dispensation of GRACE. Where Jesus did all the work & His work is accessed/seized by FAITH!
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
#9
The Child born is our King.
Isaiah 9:6-7, "For a Child is born unto us, a Son is given unto us, and the rule is on His shoulder. And His Name is called Wonder, Counsellor, Strong Ěl, Father of Continuity, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of Dawiḏ and over His reign,a to establish it and sustain it with right-ruling and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this." (Isa 16:5, Psa 2:1-12, Psa 45:6, Mic 5:2, Luk 1:32-33)

Isaiah 16:5,“And in loving-commitment the throne shall be established. And One shall sit on it in truth, in the Tent of Dawiḏ, judging and seeking right-ruling, and speeding righteousness.”
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,274
436
83
#10
Is Vine's teaching a destruction or casting aside of Yahshua/Jesus teachings while on earth?

Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Comforter – the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you."

John/Yahanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Why do so many people cast aside everything He taught for another?

John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”
Jesus said a lot of things. Here's something He said as well:

Matt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Have you sold everything you have? And should every NT gentile believer (not under Mosaic law) be broad brushed into this verse?
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
#11
Jesus said a lot of things. Here's something He said as well:

Matt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Have you sold everything you have? And should every NT gentile believer (not under Mosaic law) be broad brushed into this verse?
Common tactic by those who try to discard His words. DO my actions make His words more or less true? NO. DO my actions make His words more or less true? NO. Because you find it insurmountable or you misunderstand it does that make void His words? NO. Maybe you have sold everything you own? I dont know how we could be taking on the internet if that were so... I have not sold every possession I own, yet I have given up nearly eveything if not everything that is a distraction against following Him, and the other things I have done I do not want to brag about because I have also failed at times. with that said I am still imperfect. Have you sold everything? Is that the vital act to enter the kingdom? or did Yahshua explain it to His disciples right after?

Lets read that passage?

Matthew 19:16-24, “And see, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good shall I do to have everlasting life?”And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – Elohim. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.” (Luk 10:28, Joh 12:50, Rev 14:12-13, 22:14) He said to Him, “Which?” And יהושע said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness, Respect your father and your mother,’ and ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ ” The young man said to Him, “All these I have watched over from my youth, what do I still lack?”יהושע said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you shall haved treasure in heaven. And come, follow Me.” (Luk 12:33, 16:9, Act 2:45, Act 4:34, Mat 6:20) .And when the young man heard the word, he went away sad, because he had many possessions. And יהושע said to His taught ones, “Truly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter into the reign of the heavens.“And again I say to you, it is easier for a camele to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the reign of Elohim.”

This man's worldly possessions stopped him from following Yahshua/Jesus. Can a man be able to afford a meal and a bed and follow Him? I say yes as long as He comes first:

Mat 6:24, “No one is able to serve two masters, for either he shall hate the one and love the other, or else he shall cleave to the one and despise the other. You are not able to serve God and money.

can one make money and use it for the teaching and preaching of YHWH's word? That would be serving YHWH not money...

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,274
436
83
#12
In post #7 under dispensation you'll find a partial answer to you question. Adam lived in a dispensation of obedience.

The OP focus is rightly dividing (2) dispensations: law & grace

2 Timothy 2:15 Rightly Divide The Word Of Truth

Source: Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: divide

Greek orthotomeo - English dividing - Strongs 3718:
"to cut straight" is found in 2 Tim 2:15 "rightly dividing,"

2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, "rightly dividing the word of truth".
(MY NOTE: We divide by cutting a straight line)

Question: Where do we cut the straight dividing line in the word of truth?

Answer: The Death & Resurrection of Christ

Heb 9:
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(MY NOTE: While Jesus is alive the old covenant is in full force. The New Testament/Covenant doesn't begin until after Christ's death & resurrection)

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
(MY NOTE: Jesus taught, lived, kept, & fulfilled old covenant Mosaic laws. There is no new covenant until after Jesus (the Testator) dies.

2 Cor 3:7 (A) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
(MY NOTE: The law engraved in stones (10 commandments) exposed & administered death for sin.)

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
(MY NOTE: NT believers are not under the law dispensation, but under the GRACE dispensation.)

Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
(MY NOTE: A sinless Jesus obedient sacrificial death, burial & fulfilled & paying the laws sin required wage)

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
(MY NOTE: FAITH placed in Christ' sinless God-BLOOD (Once for ALL Time Heb 10:10) sin atoning death & resurrection. REDEEMS NT believers from Sins required/administered sentence/DEATH) condemnation)

Jesus sin atoning payment, found in his death (sins required wage PAID), burial (proof Jesus died) & resurrection (Fathers receipt, sins payment received & accepted). Is seized/accessed via FAITH (Rom 5:1-2, 10:9-10, Eph 1:13, 2:8) placed in the faithful, obedient work & resurrection of Jesus the Christ!
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,274
436
83
#13
Common tactic by those who try to discard His words. DO my actions make His words more or less true? NO. DO my actions make His words more or less true? NO. Because you find it insurmountable or you misunderstand it does that make void His words? NO. Maybe you have sold everything you own? I dont know how we could be taking on the internet if that were so... I have not sold every possession I own, yet I have given up nearly eveything if not everything that is a distraction against following Him, and the other things I have done I do not want to brag about because I have also failed at times. with that said I am still imperfect. Have you sold everything? Is that the vital act to enter the kingdom? or did Yahshua explain it to His disciples right after?

Lets read that passage?

Matthew 19:16-24, “And see, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good shall I do to have everlasting life?”And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – Elohim. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.” (Luk 10:28, Joh 12:50, Rev 14:12-13, 22:14) He said to Him, “Which?” And יהושע said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness, Respect your father and your mother,’ and ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ ” The young man said to Him, “All these I have watched over from my youth, what do I still lack?”יהושע said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you shall haved treasure in heaven. And come, follow Me.” (Luk 12:33, 16:9, Act 2:45, Act 4:34, Mat 6:20) .And when the young man heard the word, he went away sad, because he had many possessions. And יהושע said to His taught ones, “Truly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter into the reign of the heavens.“And again I say to you, it is easier for a camele to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the reign of Elohim.”

This man's worldly possessions stopped him from following Yahshua/Jesus. Can a man be able to afford a meal and a bed and follow Him? I say yes as long as He comes first:

Mat 6:24, “No one is able to serve two masters, for either he shall hate the one and love the other, or else he shall cleave to the one and despise the other. You are not able to serve God and money.

can one make money and use it for the teaching and preaching of YHWH's word? That would be serving YHWH not money...

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
1st I've discard nothing. The OP asks the right questions:

Of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context. Then answers these questions.
 

NightTwister

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2023
2,122
806
113
65
Colorado, USA
#14
In post #7 under dispensation you'll find a partial answer to you question. Adam lived in a dispensation of obedience.

The OP focus is rightly dividing (2) dispensations: law & grace

2 Timothy 2:15 Rightly Divide The Word Of Truth

Source: Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: divide

Greek orthotomeo - English dividing - Strongs 3718:
"to cut straight" is found in 2 Tim 2:15 "rightly dividing,"

2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, "rightly dividing the word of truth".
(MY NOTE: We divide by cutting a straight line)

Question: Where do we cut the straight dividing line in the word of truth?

Answer: The Death & Resurrection of Christ

Heb 9:
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(MY NOTE: While Jesus is alive the old covenant is in full force. The New Testament/Covenant doesn't begin until after Christ's death & resurrection)

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
(MY NOTE: Jesus taught, lived, kept, & fulfilled old covenant Mosaic laws. There is no new covenant until after Jesus (the Testator) dies.

2 Cor 3:7 (A) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
(MY NOTE: The law engraved in stones (10 commandments) exposed & administered death for sin.)

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
(MY NOTE: NT believers are not under the law dispensation, but under the GRACE dispensation.)

Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
(MY NOTE: A sinless Jesus obedient sacrificial death, burial & fulfilled & paying the laws sin required wage)

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
(MY NOTE: FAITH placed in Christ' sinless God-BLOOD (Once for ALL Time Heb 10:10) sin atoning death & resurrection. REDEEMS NT believers from Sins required/administered sentence/DEATH) condemnation)

Jesus sin atoning payment, found in his death (sins required wage PAID), burial (proof Jesus died) & resurrection (Fathers receipt, sins payment received & accepted). Is seized/accessed via FAITH (Rom 5:1-2, 10:9-10, Eph 1:13, 2:8) placed in the faithful, obedient work & resurrection of Jesus the Christ!
Dispensationalism never works. Everyone from Adam to present is saved by grace through faith in Christ.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
#15
My issues is with this.

NT Gospel of the GRACE of God: Begins with Paul's return from Arabia (Gal 1) 35-37AD & is still operating. Will be retired at the catching up-up of the Church (Thes 4)
It is literally saying what Yahshua yaught is not the good new/gospel/the message because itt does not begin until "NT Gospel of the GRACE of God: Begins with Paul's return from Arabia"

It is wrong,


Luke 4:18-19,18 “The Spirit of יהוה is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to bring the Good News to the poor. He has sent Me to heal the broken-hearted, to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to send away crushed ones with a release, to proclaim the acceptable year of יהוה.”

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.

John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Comforter – the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you."

John/Yahanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The wordsthat I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,569
661
113
#16
NT Gospel of the GRACE of God: Begins with Paul's return from Arabia (Gal 1) 35-37AD & is still operating. Will be retired at the catching up-up of the Church (Thes 4)
Incorrect. The gospel will be preached all thru the tribulation.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,274
436
83
#17
Incorrect. The gospel will be preached all thru the tribulation.
2nd paragraph in the OP: OT Gospel of the Kingdom: Israel only! Preaching begins with John the Baptist 25-26AD, is retired 70AD/Temple destroyed. Will be reinstated after the catching-up of the Church (Thes 4)

After the Church is removed & the dispensation of GRACE ends. 100% focus will be on Israel & the Gospel of the Kingdom will be reinstated.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
#18
Mat 28:19-20,28:19, “Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-apart Spirit, and make disciples of all the nations, immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-apart Spirit. Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,274
436
83
#19
Common tactic by those who try to discard His words. DO my actions make His words more or less true? NO. DO my actions make His words more or less true? NO. Because you find it insurmountable or you misunderstand it does that make void His words? NO. Maybe you have sold everything you own? I dont know how we could be taking on the internet if that were so... I have not sold every possession I own, yet I have given up nearly eveything if not everything that is a distraction against following Him, and the other things I have done I do not want to brag about because I have also failed at times. with that said I am still imperfect. Have you sold everything? Is that the vital act to enter the kingdom? or did Yahshua explain it to His disciples right after?

Lets read that passage?

Matthew 19:16-24, “And see, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good shall I do to have everlasting life?”And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – Elohim. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.” (Luk 10:28, Joh 12:50, Rev 14:12-13, 22:14) He said to Him, “Which?” And יהושע said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness, Respect your father and your mother,’ and ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ ” The young man said to Him, “All these I have watched over from my youth, what do I still lack?”יהושע said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you shall haved treasure in heaven. And come, follow Me.” (Luk 12:33, 16:9, Act 2:45, Act 4:34, Mat 6:20) .And when the young man heard the word, he went away sad, because he had many possessions. And יהושע said to His taught ones, “Truly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter into the reign of the heavens.“And again I say to you, it is easier for a camele to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the reign of Elohim.”

This man's worldly possessions stopped him from following Yahshua/Jesus. Can a man be able to afford a meal and a bed and follow Him? I say yes as long as He comes first:

Mat 6:24, “No one is able to serve two masters, for either he shall hate the one and love the other, or else he shall cleave to the one and despise the other. You are not able to serve God and money.

can one make money and use it for the teaching and preaching of YHWH's word? That would be serving YHWH not money...

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
You cited these verses in one of your replies:

Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Jesus said as well:

Matt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Have you sold everything you have?

If not, why not?

And should every NT gentile believer (not under Mosaic law like The Rich Young Ruler was) be broad brushed into this verse?

This reply begs an answer as well:

Matt 19: 17Jesus answered, “Why are you asking Me about what is [essentially] good? There is only One who is [essentially] good; but if you wish to enter into eternal life, keep the commandments.”

Should/are NT believers required to keep the Sabbath as recorded on Ex.?
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
#20
You cited these verses in one of your replies:

Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Jesus said as well:

Matt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Have you sold everything you have?

If not, why not?

And should every NT gentile believer (not under Mosaic law like The Rich Young Ruler was) be broad brushed into this verse?

This reply begs an answer as well:

Matt 19: 17Jesus answered, “Why are you asking Me about what is [essentially] good? There is only One who is [essentially] good; but if you wish to enter into eternal life, keep the commandments.”

Should/are NT believers required to keep the Sabbath as recorded on Ex.?
You just asked me this

Jesus said a lot of things. Here's something He said as well:

Matt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Have you sold everything you have? And should every NT gentile believer (not under Mosaic law) be broad brushed into this verse?
Literally you just asked and I replied:

Common tactic by those who try to discard His words. DO my actions make His words more or less true? NO. DO my actions make His words more or less true? NO. Because you find it insurmountable or you misunderstand it does that make void His words? NO. Maybe you have sold everything you own? I dont know how we could be taking on the internet if that were so... I have not sold every possession I own, yet I have given up nearly eveything if not everything that is a distraction against following Him, and the other things I have done I do not want to brag about because I have also failed at times. with that said I am still imperfect. Have you sold everything? Is that the vital act to enter the kingdom? or did Yahshua explain it to His disciples right after?

Lets read that passage?

Matthew 19:16-24, “And see, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good shall I do to have everlasting life?”And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – Elohim. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.” (Luk 10:28, Joh 12:50, Rev 14:12-13, 22:14) He said to Him, “Which?” And יהושע said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness, Respect your father and your mother,’ and ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ ” The young man said to Him, “All these I have watched over from my youth, what do I still lack?”יהושע said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you shall haved treasure in heaven. And come, follow Me.” (Luk 12:33, 16:9, Act 2:45, Act 4:34, Mat 6:20) .And when the young man heard the word, he went away sad, because he had many possessions. And יהושע said to His taught ones, “Truly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter into the reign of the heavens.“And again I say to you, it is easier for a camele to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the reign of Elohim.”

This man's worldly possessions stopped him from following Yahshua/Jesus. Can a man be able to afford a meal and a bed and follow Him? I say yes as long as He comes first:

Mat 6:24, “No one is able to serve two masters, for either he shall hate the one and love the other, or else he shall cleave to the one and despise the other. You are not able to serve God and money.

can one make money and use it for the teaching and preaching of YHWH's word? That would be serving YHWH not money...

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
Why do people start accusing you when you agree with Yahshua?