Paul saw the ten commandments as part of the "ministry of death."

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Pilgrimshope

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John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
“I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:30‬ ‭

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: ( his name as in a person a man child Immanuel god with us ) which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 4, 9-14, 16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭48:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬

“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭

at he wore came and dwelt among us then retrained to his glory in the beginning after accomplishing salvation ….

this is simply true Jesus is who this is talking about

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when God came it was Jesus the son and in him was God the father who is a spirit like a man is one with his spirit so is Jesus one with God he stepped off his throne on the throne in the form of Christ the perfect man I. Order to save us from death he had to make his own self like we are and become subject but after the resurrection it’s no longer hidden

“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. ( they are one and have a singular name of the person of God , Jesus the Christ ) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He would never accept and approve that if it was not accurate, Jesus is the revelation of God to mankind all nations and peoples he was hidden behind that smoke and tempest and fire on the Old Testament they never really knew God he says it repeatedly in the prophets

The law doesn’t show him to born again but to doomed sinners who can’t see and hear
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
“I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:30‬ ‭

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: ( his name as in a person a man child Immanuel god with us ) which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 4, 9-14, 16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭48:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬

“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭

at he wore came and dwelt among us then retrained to his glory in the beginning after accomplishing salvation ….

this is simply true Jesus is who this is talking about

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when God came it was Jesus the son and in him was God the father who is a spirit like a man is one with his spirit so is Jesus one with God he stepped off his throne on the throne in the form of Christ the perfect man I. Order to save us from death he had to make his own self like we are and become subject but after the resurrection it’s no longer hidden

“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. ( they are one and have a singular name of the person of God , Jesus the Christ ) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He would never accept and approve that if it was not accurate, Jesus is the revelation of God to mankind all nations and peoples he was hidden behind that smoke and tempest and fire on the Old Testament they never really knew God he says it repeatedly in the prophets

The law doesn’t show him to born again but to doomed sinners who can’t see and hear
If your heart is cleansed by the Father His ways will be in your heart, you wont fight against them. THis shows the renewed mind and heart/"born again"

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."












You you replied to my post concerning this:

So you don't know that you hate your brother by requiring to keep laws that you can't even keep? or does he only have to keep the ones that you can?
Where is the verse that says guarding His Laws/Commands is "hate?"

I keep hearing this here but none have produced Scripture to back up that claim.

Mat 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deuteronomy 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
 

SomeDisciple

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Jul 4, 2021
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They weren't eating off a pagan altar. They were purchasing meat in a marketplace and eating it in their homes
That's speculation on your part... but Paul addresses both meat on the altar, and meat in the market- so it was probably both scenarios were occurring and in question at the time- and we have the answers for which is acceptable and which is not. (or at least, I am satisfied that we have the answer for which is acceptable and which is not.)
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
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That's speculation on your part... but Paul addresses both meat on the altar, and meat in the market- so it was probably both scenarios were occurring and in question at the time- and we have the answers for which is acceptable and which is not. (or at least, I am satisfied that we have the answer for which is acceptable and which is not.)
Woah!!!!!!!! I never realized that, I must have read right over it. I just searched it and 1 Cor 8:10 came up.

1 Corinthians 8:7-13,7 However, not all have this knowledge. But some, being aware of the idol, until now eat it as having been offered to an idol, so their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 But food does not commend us to Elohim, for we are none the better if we eat, nor any worse for not eating. 9 But look to it, lest somehow this right of yours becomes a stumbling-block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s place, shall not his conscience, if he is weak, be built up to eat food offered to idols? 11 So this weak brother, for whom Messiah died, shall perish through your knowledge! 12 Now sinning in this way against the brothers, and wounding their weak conscience, you sin against Messiah. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I am never again going to eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.”

I dont even think it a good idea to step foot into a pagan temple, eating maeat sacrificed to idols in the pagan temple? Am I reading this right?
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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That's speculation on your part... but Paul addresses both meat on the altar, and meat in the market- so it was probably both scenarios were occurring and in question at the time- and we have the answers for which is acceptable and which is not. (or at least, I am satisfied that we have the answer for which is acceptable and which is not.)
Actually Acts 15 and Revelation 2:20 are dealing with the actual partaking in an idol worship service. That's why they are forbidden. They describe what was happening in houses of idolatry. They mention sexual immorality as well as feasting.
1 Corinthians 8 concerns itself only with meat.
 

SomeDisciple

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Jul 4, 2021
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I dont even think it a good idea to step foot into a pagan temple,
Yeah, chances are, you don't belong in one... pretty much ever- but that's up to the holy ghost, and not me... if God wants to evangelize a pagan temple, he can- but that's not something you go and do because the idea pops into your head.
eating maeat sacrificed to idols in the pagan temple? Am I reading this right?
Yeah... it's bad.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
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Yeah, chances are, you don't belong in one... pretty much ever- but that's up to the holy ghost, and not me... if God wants to evangelize a pagan temple, he can- but that's not something you go and do because the idea pops into your head.

Yeah... it's bad.
Im at a loss for words.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
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Im at a loss for words.
I mean, this was obviously a more prominent issue in the classical-era anyway; it's modern application boils down mostly, I think, to not taking communion with false bretheren. I don't know of a single pagan temple or altar within 100 miles of my home... but maybe it's more of an issue in other places.
 

SpeakTruth101

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Aug 14, 2023
874
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SO im re reading it, I don't understand why Paul goes to "I am never again going to eat meat"

"eat it as having been offered to an idol,...For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s place,...I am never again going to eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.”

"I am never again going to eat meat"

So no meat at all if it can't be in a pagan temple?

Why would eating say a healthy lamb from a clean grazing field by positioned with idol meat?

1 Corinthians 8:7-13,7 However, not all have this knowledge. But some, being aware of the idol, until now eat it as having been offered to an idol, so their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 But food does not commend us to Elohim, for we are none the better if we eat, nor any worse for not eating. 9 But look to it, lest somehow this right of yours becomes a stumbling-block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s place, shall not his conscience, if he is weak, be built up to eat food offered to idols? 11 So this weak brother, for whom Messiah died, shall perish through your knowledge! 12 Now sinning in this way against the brothers, and wounding their weak conscience, you sin against Messiah. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I am never again going to eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.”

Well I can say I was firm before that ACts 15 and Rev 2 were correct but I think im twice as certian now, in the pagan temple is crazy.

1 John 5:21, “Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amĕn.”
 

Cameron143

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A good example of this today is alcohol. There are Christians who believe all use of alcohol is sin. There are others who believe that so long as you do not come under its influence it is perfectly acceptable.
If you believe it is ok, you have liberty to partake. But if you are in the presence of someone who doesn't, you shouldn't go to the liquor store with them.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
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I mean, this was obviously a more prominent issue in the classical-era anyway; it's modern application boils down mostly, I think, to not taking communion with false bretheren. I don't know of a single pagan temple or altar within 100 miles of my home... but maybe it's more of an issue in other places.
Mosques, masonic temples and there are "churches" of satan and other mystery religion temples, more in California that ive seen. I dont know what goes on in there, but yeah I understand this was written many years ago, but to be honest and im not going to get graphic, but what they used to do in some of the pagan rituals would have physically tainted the meat, as well as spiritual sickness.
 

SpeakTruth101

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Aug 14, 2023
874
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A good example of this today is alcohol. There are Christians who believe all use of alcohol is sin. There are others who believe that so long as you do not come under its influence it is perfectly acceptable.
If you believe it is ok, you have liberty to partake. But if you are in the presence of someone who doesn't, you shouldn't go to the liquor store with them.
I dont think that is a good example, 2 reasons.

Drinking alcohol is not a sin, being drunk (out of control) is.

Drinking alcohol is not of pagan origin, pagan temples and pagan animal sacrifices are.

So its apples to crocodiles
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
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A good example of this today is alcohol. There are Christians who believe all use of alcohol is sin. There are others who believe that so long as you do not come under its influence it is perfectly acceptable.
If you believe it is ok, you have liberty to partake. But if you are in the presence of someone who doesn't, you shouldn't go to the liquor store with them.
A third reason also. we are not judged by what other peopel think, even if they are believers

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
 

SomeDisciple

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A good example of this today is alcohol.
I've heard (Calvary Chapel) preachers say this before... but I don't think so.

Alcohol is more of a conviction issue. It is sin for some people to drink at all. For me; I'm not supposed to drink outside my home; or in my home in the presence of women.

People will generally not break their personal convictions and stumble because another Christian is doing what they have a personal conviction against. Obviously, pressuring someone to break their convictions is really bad; and will get your teeth kicked in.

Food offered to idols isn't a conviction thing- you aren't supposed to do it, because you can influence other people into worshipping idols.
 

Cameron143

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I dont think that is a good example, 2 reasons.

Drinking alcohol is not a sin, being drunk (out of control) is.

Drinking alcohol is not of pagan origin, pagan temples and pagan animal sacrifices are.

So its apples to crocodiles
It's anything that binds the conscience.
 

SomeDisciple

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There are probably some- I live in between two large cities in NY state- but I don't know where they are. There is a LOT of protestantism around here- but things like Masons: I think you have to be "initiated" or whatever, so it's not like you're waltzing up into a masonic lodge and partaking in whatever they do. You have to make a conscious effort to find these people whereas in the classical era, the pagan crap was everywhere.
 

Cameron143

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I've heard (Calvary Chapel) preachers say this before... but I don't think so.

Alcohol is more of a conviction issue. It is sin for some people to drink at all. For me; I'm not supposed to drink outside my home; or in my home in the presence of women.

People will generally not break their personal convictions and stumble because another Christian is doing what they have a personal conviction against. Obviously, pressuring someone to break their convictions is really bad; and will get your teeth kicked in.

Food offered to idols isn't a conviction thing- you aren't supposed to do it, because you can influence other people into worshipping idols.
Again, I respect your opinion. But I believe the issue is anything that binds the conscience. But I do appreciate you sharing.
 

SpeakTruth101

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There are probably some- I live in between two large cities in NY state- but I don't know where they are. There is a LOT of protestantism around here- but things like Masons: I think you have to be "initiated" or whatever, so it's not like you're waltzing up into a masonic lodge and partaking in whatever they do. You have to make a conscious effort to find these people whereas in the classical era, the pagan crap was everywhere.
True, but that does not change the act, if they are on every corner or they are very rare does not change the act, it does change to amount of access
 

Cameron143

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what? are you saying a sin is based upons one own conscience? Im not sure Im understanding you
Anything not of faith is sin. So if your conscience constrains you, and you still do it, to you it is sin.