Jesus said for the hardness of your hearts Moses let you divorce. How much of the Law was just Moses? Jesus absolutely didn't like the stoning of the woman in adultery. Was the stonings just Moses?
The law and Moses
- Thread starter JonathanBentley
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All of the law was God. Moses had no authority to change the law. All changes were from God.
It's called the law of Moses because God delivered it to the people through Moses. But Moses didn't conceive the law. It was given to him. When Jesus said Moses allowed for a bill of divorcement, He meant that it was allowed by God, but delivered through Moses.
Not Moses, or anyone else, has the authority to make the law.
What do you mean by, "How much of the Law was just Moses?" Do you mean, "How much of the Law came from Moses' mind?" or "How much of the Law was delivered through Moses?" or something else? Your responses to Cameron suggest you aren't getting the answers you want.
“who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
Acts 7:53
the laws authority is here
“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
Exodus 23:20-21 KJV
ado you see how he’s saying “ beware of him , he will not pardon your transgressions my name is in him ?”
This is God giving the authority over the law to an angel because of what they did when Moses was on the Mount. So when you see this
“And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.”
Numbers 15:32, 35-36 KJV
that’s not Jesus commanding the sinner to be put to death it’s the angelic authority bearing the “name or authority of the lord “ the one he said “ will not pardon them “
a you know this can’t be Jesus because Jesus never changes and he had never not pardoned sin he’s the one who does pardon sin he’s the one who bears the mercy spoken of in the law
jesus is the one warning the people about the angel he’s sending before them
sits sort of a long story but when Moses went up on the Mount and they built the calf and worshipped it that’s why God gave them over to the angels
at he law would have not been what it is if they hadn’t worshipped the calf it was added because of that and is not the ordination of Christ and not the mediation of Christ it’s angels ordination and the mediation of Moses who gave the law it’s like a blue print for the real things in Christ
Ultimately of course everything comes from God like the law it came from God but then an angel was set over it and Moses was made its mediator
“For the law was given by Moses,
but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
John 1:17 KJV
“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
2 Corinthians 3:12-15 KJV
The angels ordained the law and moses mediated it God set up the order and turned the people over to the angels
“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon.”
Acts 7:41-43
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,
till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.”
Galatians 3:19-20
at he law was ordained of angels and given to Moses to mediate until Christ came forth , and it was added because they rejected the law immediately breaking the first command before it was even written down before Moses could even retrieve the tablets they were dancing naked around a golden calf thanking it for saving them from Egypt
they did that just after God said “ don’t make images and worship then and give glory and thanks to them I am God alone there is no other god
then they said to Aaron “ make us gods to worship “
God was going to utterly destroy everyone of them and leave only Moses but moses interceded and said “ lord of you won’t spare them then also forsake me “
God repented and relented because of moses intercession this again is a pattern of wheat Christ would do but when Moses did that he became the mediator and his judgements are evident throughout the law as well as the I forgiving disposition of the angel the people were placed under the le is coming from that ordination and mediation it’s not the same as the gospel not even close to the same
That's a very in depth look at the subject. I was only attempting to have the OP consider the source of the law.
the answers are in a lot of scripture if you follow the source of events in the law or writings of Moses ( the first five biblical books ) you see an actual course of events happening man begins in relationship with God , he is blessed and alive and welcomed into Eden by the good lord all is well
a then Satan deceived man and man follows sin as God warned then would cause death and soon mankknd itself is corrupt to the point God says this
First this is what he said when all was well before man sinned
“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
Genesis 1:31 KJV
but because of that course we spoke of this became reality
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.”
Genesis 6:5-7
a you see how man corrupted the earth which god made good but now it’s covered in evil and violence because of man
“And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
Genesis 6:13 KJV
the reason I’m talking about this is that the law of Moses hasn’t yet come it’s given later in exodus this is all happening before the law of Moses . Man had fallen into sin d became wicked at heart and we’re killing one another lyin and stealing cheating and worshipping false gods ect that’s why the law comes saying “ thou shalt not kill “ “ thou shalt not commit adultery “ thou shalt not have other gods “ ect
the law that was given to Moses in the cloud is a response to mankind becoming sinners see that’s what scripture like this is telling us
“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
1 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV
or this
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
Galatians 3:19 KJV
the law is for this
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
if you look at the law when it’s given in exodus something happens forst the lord descends upon the Mount and he speaks Ten Commandments , the people are terrified and “say we’ll do everything you said “
then they tell Moses “ we’re terrified if we hear the lords word anymore we’re going to surely die so you go talk with him and come tell us what he said and then we’ll obey every word always “
Moses goes up and God accepts this arrangement even saying it’s good that the people fear me , and then he begins to write with his finger the ten commands he spoke from the Mount . Before he can finish writing down below the Mount the people make Aaron build them a golden calf nd they worship it and get naked and dance like Bergen’s around it d thank it and praise it and say “ this is our god who saved us oh israel “
above while this is happening God reacts like this
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves: they have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.”
Exodus 32:7-10 KJV
At this point everything is going to change Moses intercedes and God spares them Moses imposes his own judgements on them , but the thing is now God now isn’t going to go with them he’s going to send this angel instead
“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
Exodus 23:20-21 KJV
This is what Stephen was killed for saying only the truth and why the Jews were always trying to kill Paul
“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness?
Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
….Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
Acts 7:41-43, 52-53 KJV
the law is gods word , an angels independent ordination and authority and Moses mediation and judgements it would have been like the gospel but they rejected the very first command that they agreed to obey forever just moments after it was given
The law originated from God it’s the ordination and judgements even mediation that’s not his word we have an unforgiving angelic authority over it and we have Moses mediating it with all authority the gospel is God the father in the son filled with his spirit ordaining and mediating the law as well as regulating it through sacrifice
moses is a pattern for Christ the law of Moses a pattern for the gospel like a shadow but the gospel is the actual figure that cast that shadow
“And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, And rose up from Seir unto them; He shined forth from mount Paran, And he came with ten thousands of saints: From his right hand went a fiery law for them.”
Deuteronomy 33:2
This was actually a legal matter that Jesus had no legal authority to address. Permit me to explain.
By Glen Rogers
The Pharisees Attempt to Trap Jesus on a Point of Law, 1-11.
"But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery and having set her in the center of the court, they said to Him, ‘Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?’ They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him.”
The setting
Jesus is in the Temple
He already has an audience of listeners.
He is seated to teach in good rabbinic fashion.
A woman caught in adultery is brought before Jesus by the Jewish rules.
These rulers are the ones responsible for judging such matters so, why bring her to Jesus?
The scribes and the Pharisees hold no regard for Jesus as either a teacher of the Law nor a judge so, why bring her to Jesus?
Jesus in not a Levitical priest so he had no legal grounds for passing judgment in a criminal case, so, why bring him to Jesus?
Since all of this is true, there is no reason these rulers would have brought this woman to Jesus to decide her fate. You sort of begin to sense a trap.
Adultery and the Law of Moses
Leviticus 20:10, “If there is a man who commits adultery with another man's wife, one who commits adultery with his friend's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
Deuteronomy 22:23-34, “If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor’s wife. Thus, you shall purge the evil from among you.”
The accusation was that this woman had been “caught in adultery, in the very act.” So, where was the man? Why was he not also charged? Why did they only bring the woman? It would seem that these men were not so interested in justice and protecting the Law as they appeared. This entire exercise was nothing more than a hypocritical charade. They have no interest in the Law. They care only about destroying an innocent man.
What were the facts of the case?
The woman was caught red handed as it were. There is no question of her guilt for she had been caught in the very act of adultery.
The penalty under the Law was certain death. There was to be no appeal.
The Pharisees had an obligation under the law to stone both the man and the woman to death. That would have satisfied justice under the Law.
The legal dilemma
“Now in the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” It also commanded them to stone the man. They must have forgotten that part of the commandment. Now, there are only two possible options to this case. She must either be stoned or released. In their minds, no matter which answer Jesus gave they would be able to accuse him either before the Sanhedrin or before Pilate. If Jesus said not to stone her, he violates the commandment and they could bring charges against him before the Sanhedrin. If he says to stone her then they can bring charges against him before Rome because Rome had taken away the right of capital punishment form the Jews. Only Rome could condemn a person to death. They felt they finally had him either way.
Jesus' response – “But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground.”
Jesus has no intention of involving himself in this fiasco. This matter was theirs to judge, not his. So, he just stooped down and began doodling in the sand ignoring their question.
What did the Law say about casting the first stone? Deuteronomy 17:7, “The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So, you shall purge the evil from your midst.” It was the legal duty of the one witness who brought the accusation to cast the first stone against the accused. Jesus simply offers a challenge.
“But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” Jesus thus upholds the stoning of the woman. He stands by the demands of the law for the crime.
It may well be inferred from the text that Jesus is leveling an accusation of adultery against each of these men. “The one among you who is not guilty of the same cast the first stone.” This would over rule any hypocritical condemnation of this woman. How do you condemn someone of a crime for which you yourself are guilty? This must have really struck home because, “When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones....” By this one simple statement from Jesus, their scheme had completely fallen apart.
Jesus refuses to condemn the woman.
"And He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. Straightening up, Jesus said to her, ‘Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?’ She said, ‘No one, Lord.’”
With no witnesses to accuse her, Jesus simply says, “I do not condemn you, either.” The text does not say that Jesus pardoned her, nor does it say that he forgave her. This would have been contrary to the Law. By the provisions of the law in matters involving the death penalty, he could not do otherwise. The Law says, “On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness,” Deuteronomy 17:6. Even though Jesus, by virtue of the fact that he could have known the facts of her guilt if he so chose, she still cannot be put to death on the testimony of only one witness and with no other witnesses to accuse her, the law cannot judge her. He has to let her go; but Jesus sends her away with this warning, “Go. From now on, sin no more.” In other words, “You are free to go so go and don't do it again!”
When God wrote the law in stone it was symbolic of the law of God, and Go is a spirit. The law in stone all gave way of the flesh to obey God's law of the spirit. The Pharisees misunderstood that law, thinking that if they obeyed the symbolic law like keeping to a diet of foods from animals who ate no garbage, or by cutting of flesh----then they were obeying the law. They ignored the real law of the spirit.
Christ changed the symbolic law, Christ fulfilled the law and made the law of the flesh, the symbolic law, obsolete, and put the law in our hearts.
The law remained the same, but we understand the law through our hearts, now. So--before we cut flesh to show we belong to the Lord, now we accept Christ within so we live through Christ and the ways of Christ.
Christ changed the symbolic law, Christ fulfilled the law and made the law of the flesh, the symbolic law, obsolete, and put the law in our hearts.
The law remained the same, but we understand the law through our hearts, now. So--before we cut flesh to show we belong to the Lord, now we accept Christ within so we live through Christ and the ways of Christ.