'Turning from sin'

[wattie]

In most tracts today, a form of this phrase is put with how to get saved. As well as believing on Jesus Christ, 'commiting your life to Christ '..
'turning from sin'... 'making Him Lord of your life'. .. are put in with 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ '

The issue with these phrases..is if we are taking about good behaviour/works integrated into believing on Jesus Christ..then that doesn't cut it for salvation.

Salvation is simply and purely ..
Believing Jesus is God, that He died and rose again on the third day, and that by believing in Him you have eternal life. John 3:16,5:24.. Romans 10-9-10. Ephesians 2:8-9 etc.

Of course you gotta know you are a sinner and be convicted of that fact by God to believe on Jesus Christ..but that isn't a work of effort or active behaviour of lessening our sin as well as believing.

'God be merciful to me, a sinner'. Is all thats needed

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Salvation is never offered apart from genuine repentance. In fact, God commands all men everywhere to repent.

 

[wattie]

Salvation is never offered apart from genuine repentance. In fact, God commands all men everywhere to repent.

Yes..so what is meant by repentance is key. I believe you've got to be converted first before any behaviour change can happen, and so any behaviour change shouldn't be part of salvation.

It's not a commitment to good behaviour but realising you are a sinner who can't do any good behaviour that would lead to salvation.

Repent is 'a change of mind, heart'...but does that mean a work on our part?

I'd say that change of mind, heart is all Jesus doing the work and us accepting Him.

 

[HeIsHere]

Salvation is never offered apart from genuine repentance. In fact, God commands all men everywhere to repent.

Repentance is not remorse.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Yes..so what is meant by repentance is key. I believe you've got to be converted first before any behaviour change can happen, and so any behaviour change shouldn't be part of salvation.

If what you are saying is that we cannot truly change apart from the help of the Holy Spirit who indwells us after we truly turn to Christ, then I agree with you. My issue with your OP is the phrase "turning from sin". We do need to realize, by Holy Spirit conviction (our consciences play a role in this as well), that we are headed in the wrong direction from which we need to turn back to God. I believe that this is expressed by the words "froward" and "untoward" in scripture.

Froward and untoward basically mean that we have "turned aside", or "departed", or that we are moving in a direction which is moving us away from God as opposed to towards God, and sin would be the reason why we have turned aside or departed. With such being the case, I believe that it is not only proper to say that we need to "turn from sin" and back towards God, but it is scriptural as well as is demonstrated in verses of scripture such as these:

Ezekiel 18:21

"But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die."

Ezekiel 33:14

"Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;"

To your point, no real change can take place until after we have turned to Christ, or until after we have truly been born again through saving faith in Christ, but if we are turning to Christ, then we must be turning away from something else as well, and that something else is sin.

It's not a commitment to good behaviour but realising you are a sinner who can't do any good behaviour that would lead to salvation.

Repent is 'a change of mind, heart'...but does that mean a work on our part?

I'd say that change of mind, heart is all Jesus doing the work and us accepting Him.

Again, if by saying "It's not a commitment to good behavior" you mean that we cannot do the good behavior before receiving Christ, then I agree with you. However, we must realize that God requires our behavior to change in order to be saved from it. In other words, we must realize that Jesus came to save us from our sins, and that is why we turn to him, and away from our sins.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Repentance is not remorse.

I am not sure why you posted this or what you mean exactly, but "godly sorrow" precedes genuine repentance.

2 Corinthians 7:10

"For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."

 

[ResidentAlien]

Yes..so what is meant by repentance is key. I believe you've got to be converted first before any behaviour change can happen, and so any behaviour change shouldn't be part of salvation.

Turning from sin and making Jesus Lord your life doesn't mean you're professing to change your behavior before you can be saved; it just means you no longer want to serve sin, but the Lord. I'm starting to think people just sit around trying to think up the most ridiculous things they can then post them here.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Turning from sin and making Jesus Lord your life doesn't mean you're professing to change your behavior before you can be saved; it just means you no longer want to serve sin, but the Lord.

Amen.

Whereas we were once servants of sin, we now desire to be servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:17-18

"But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."

 

[mailmandan]

The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. To change one's mind.

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G3340/metanoeo.htm#:~:text=Strong's #3340: metanoeo (pronounced met-an-o-eh'-o) from 3326 and,i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent. Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side (what you change your mind about) and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of receiving Christ. (Acts 20:21)

Certain people misunderstand the term "repentance" to mean "turning from sin" to the extreme which means from that moment on we live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life, 100% of the time, yet repent does not mean sinless perfection. The word "repent" basically means to "change your mind."

The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). I have heard certain people say, "if you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to completely stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they completely stop sinning and, in that case, none of us will be saved because none of us are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[JohnDB]

Sin is insidious.
Believe it or not, it harms those people whom you love the most.

Because of your attitude towards the sin is what causes the harm. A year of sermons will not have as much influence as 10 minutes with your friends. And parents have an essential role in shaping children's attitudes.

So....your attitude towards sin is the eternal death sentence for many.

Your only hope is Jesus.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Amen.

Whereas we were once servants of sin, we now desire to be servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:17-18

"But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s going to be hard to explain to the lord “ what I did doesn’t matter lord I’m saved “

 

[HeIsHere]

The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. To change one's mind.

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G3340/metanoeo.htm#:~:text=Strong's #3340: metanoeo (pronounced met-an-o-eh'-o) from 3326 and,i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent. Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side (what you change your mind about) and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of receiving Christ. (Acts 20:21)

Certain people misunderstand the term "repentance" to mean "turning from sin" to the extreme which means from that moment on we live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life, 100% of the time, yet repent does not mean sinless perfection. The word "repent" basically means to "change your mind."

The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). I have heard certain people say, "if you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to completely stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they completely stop sinning and, in that case, none of us will be saved because none of us are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time. (1 John 1:8-10)

Acts 26:20

.. but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance. (ESV)

"that they should repent (metanoein), turn (epistrefein) to God, and do (prassontas) works befitting (axia) repentance (metanoias)," (NKJV)

There is a logical and close relationship between repentance and its fruits, but not a necessary one.

Scripture does not back load works onto salvation.

 

[Edify]

Works are not required for salvation. They're only required to prove & stay saved.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Works are not required for salvation. They're only required to prove & stay saved.

I don't know that anyone is saying works are required for salvation. The OP seems to be suggesting that a desire to turn from sin and make Jesus Lord constitutes an effort to be saved by works.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Acts 26:20

.. but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance. (ESV)

"that they should repent (metanoein), turn (epistrefein) to God, and do (prassontas) works befitting (axia) repentance (metanoias)," (NKJV)

There is a logical and close relationship between repentance and its fruits, but not a necessary one.

Scripture does not back load works onto salvation.

“There is a logical and close relationship between repentance and its fruits, but not a necessary one. “

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:5‬ ‭

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not that anyone is adding anything to salvation it’s that people remove what he said about it based on other single verses they find and pluck from context

Jesus didn’t die si sinners can keep sinning and say they are saved and born again he died and rose so they could repent and be freed from the dominion of sin that is leading everyone to death

if we don’t come to repentance we’re always going to be serving satans Will in this world which is sin Jesus dying and raising up ⬆️ s not about makin an excuse for our sins it’s about taking thier doninion away so we can stop serving the devil and start living for the lord

If we serve sin it’s going to result in what he says if we repent and serve the lords will for us it’s going to lead to where he said

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? ( is it okay for us to sin now ?) God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death, ( we can obey sin and die )

or of obedience unto righteousness?”( we can obey the lord and be deemed right and live )
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In the end every Christian should be able to agree God has called us to stop sinning and start living upright lives that we were created for if we keep serving sin and don’t repent the warnings are all just as true as the blessings

Everything jesus did is meant to turn us fro. Serving sin and death to serving God willingly without saying “ it’s a grievance to keep these commands” he’s changing us but not if we won’t change

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Works are not required for salvation. They're only required to prove & stay saved.

Is this true ?

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is Jesus right about that part ? And can we be saved without being forgiven of our sins ? So then do Christian’s need to forgive others when they sin against them in order o be forgiven by God the father ?

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

is it a work to forgive someone ? Is it necassary that Christian’s hear this and believe so they will repent and start forgiving others ?

Or is Jesus not understanding that we’re saved regardless of what we do ? Sinply because he’s telling us about forgivness and bidding us to believe him

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

In most tracts today, a form of this phrase is put with how to get saved. As well as believing on Jesus Christ, 'commiting your life to Christ '..
'turning from sin'... 'making Him Lord of your life'. .. are put in with 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ '

The issue with these phrases..is if we are taking about good behaviour/works integrated into believing on Jesus Christ..then that doesn't cut it for salvation.

Salvation is simply and purely ..
Believing Jesus is God, that He died and rose again on the third day, and that by believing in Him you have eternal life. John 3:16,5:24.. Romans 10-9-10. Ephesians 2:8-9 etc.

Of course you gotta know you are a sinner and be convicted of that fact by God to believe on Jesus Christ..but that isn't a work of effort or active behaviour of lessening our sin as well as believing.

'God be merciful to me, a sinner'. Is all thats needed

This is what the Holy Spirit does to help the unsaved to get saved . Does the Holy Spirit make the unbeliever so very sorry that their tears atone for sins as I heard teaching on many times?
No, tears may be the response to the truth of God's grace in spite of the realization of deserved condemnation, but shed tears add nothing to shed blood of the Savior. This is one of many reasons that I use the Bible that I do. The reproof " of sin because they believe not on me."

John 16:8-11
"8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."

Reproof is what Paul taught Pastor Timothy.
..."Reprove, rebuked, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine."

The Holy Spirit likewise corrects the unbelievers about sin by reproving them.
He reproves the unrighteous that the Only Righteous One is Jesus, Who ascended to the Father. (The true God is the triune God of the gospel.) He is the Righteous One, whereas all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags in His sight....Isaiah. That's why they need to quit trusting their own righteousness and instead trust the Righteous One or they will have the same destiny as the prince of this world, the Devil.

I appreciate your description in your OP.
The only thing that I disagree with is that translation used uses the word "convict," which is often defined as feeling sorry for sins or something which implies emotional works. I believe that the correct translation is reprove instead, but it's not my purpose to turn this into a Bible version debate. You are teaching the correct gospel. I wish more would do likewise.

This is the most controversial issue among pop christianity, so it takes courage to stand on the truth of your topic. We must though if anyone is to be saved and God is to be pleased. People can believe reprobates if they want, but they will send them to the same place as Judas.
Most people listen to false preachers on TV and elsewhere who aren't even saved. They are loved by the world and mix grace with works while pointing to Jesus like a magician's slight of hand...."hey everyone, it's Jesus Who saves, BUT YOU GO TO TURN FROM YOUR SINS, ETC...". They are thinly veiling their termite eaten hollow wood with a veneer of paneling. They always say Jesus gave His life, but add that people must give their own life or some such heresy.
Preach on brother!

📖🙂👍

 

[Edify]

It has been my experience in chats that as soon as 'works' are mentioned anywhere near salvation, the 'antiworks crew" comes out in droves looking for conflict.
A true christian shouldn't be afraid to take a stand for the Faith, neither be afraid when accused falsely.
Have we not been told to stand with the shield of faith & the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God?

Ephesians 2:10
English Standard Version
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[wattie]

I don't know that anyone is saying works are required for salvation. The OP seems to be suggesting that a desire to turn from sin and make Jesus Lord constitutes an effort to be saved by works.

Of course there's nothing wrong with a desire to turn from sin, but believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is just that. So someone believing is placing their faith in Jesus 100 percent and not any part of themselves.

So I don't won't say you aren't converted or anyone else on this thread, because I don't know who has trusted in Jesus 100 percent for salvation and not themselves.

The key issue is ..' making Jesus Lord of your life..' plus the other phrases is it words the salvation to be coming from the unbeliever rather than Jesus 100 percent.

At salvation the four spiritual laws booklet..like I've said b4.. assumes the person calling for salvation..is making Jesus Lord over every part of their life... Submitted to Him right there and then. Because the follow up tract has Jesus 'no longer on the throne of your life' for the struggling believer.

But making Jesus Lord over every area of your life is a life long experience of submission to Him.

It doesn't happen at salvation straight away.

So... The problem with getting saved with a phrase like 'i now commit my life to you'..

Is if you struggle with sin after this then someone can easily say 'never saved in the first place ', because you aren't fully committed in your works.

Works become the test of salvation, where the works don't get the person saved to begin with. It's God's mercy that gets them saved and not a commitment of good behaviour to Jesus.

'not by works of righteousness but according to His mercy He saved us'

 

[wattie]

It has been my experience in chats that as soon as 'works' are mentioned anywhere near salvation, the 'antiworks crew" comes out in droves looking for conflict.
A true christian shouldn't be afraid to take a stand for the Faith, neither be afraid when accused falsely.
Have we not been told to stand with the shield of faith & the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God?

Ephesians 2:10
English Standard Version
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Yeah, God wants our obedience and love in serving Him. But that can only happen if we have full unconditional love and payment for our sin. We are dead in sin without Him. So any kind of reducing of sin b4 conversion is just putting perfume on a corpse.