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I have seen many people online mentioning the Greek Septuagint
is it true that The Septuagint had to be RECONSTRUCTED and INVENTED out of the nothingness of the less that 1 % of the fragments that existed before Jesus Christ ?
and that these fragments that date before Jesus Christ are less that 1 % of the Greek Septuagint and are not enough to even translate a single page of the Old Testament. ?
what manuscripts of the Greek Septuagint are available existing before Jesus Christ ?
i managed to find this website and what I have found is that it seems that these fragments are all that have been found, does anyone have any information about what manuscripts of the Greek Septuagint are available existing before Jesus Christ to prove that a complete Greek Septuagint even existed ?
ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rak/earlylxx/earlypaplist.html#chronol
I have seen many people online mentioning the Greek Septuagint
is it true that The Septuagint had to be RECONSTRUCTED and INVENTED out of the nothingness of the less that 1 % of the fragments that existed before Jesus Christ ?
and that these fragments that date before Jesus Christ are less that 1 % of the Greek Septuagint and are not enough to even translate a single page of the Old Testament. ?
what manuscripts of the Greek Septuagint are available existing before Jesus Christ ?
i managed to find this website and what I have found is that it seems that these fragments are all that have been found, does anyone have any information about what manuscripts of the Greek Septuagint are available existing before Jesus Christ to prove that a complete Greek Septuagint even existed ?
ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rak/earlylxx/earlypaplist.html#chronol
Not according to those who know the history of both. The Jews living in the Roman empire outside Palestine were quite liberal theologically, so they had no problem with a corrupt Greek Old Testament translation. The very fact that the Apocrypha is an integral part of the LXX speaks for itself. There were only 24 inspired books of the Hebrew OT and Christ Himself confirmed this.
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I , in my post was not attempting in any way to claim the The Septuagint as valid or invalid -
but just asking how anyone would trust that it existed before Christ,
if there are not even enough B.C Greek fragments found as manuscripts - to even amount to even a tiny fraction of a single page in reconstituting a single page of the Septuagint.
but just asking how anyone would trust that it existed before Christ,
if there are not even enough B.C Greek fragments found as manuscripts - to even amount to even a tiny fraction of a single page in reconstituting a single page of the Septuagint.
Tov's list is well known for being inacturate.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Septuagint
https://biblearchaeology.org/research/new-testament-era/4022-a-brief-history-of-the-septuagint
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint_manuscripts
https://www.gotquestions.org/septuagint.html
https://www.bibleodyssey.org/passag...hat-is-the-septuagint-and-why-does-it-matter/
https://dbts.edu/2019/10/01/when-and-where-was-the-septuagint-written/
"Hebrew scholars at Talmudic schools in Palestine and Babylonia about the 6th century CE began trying to retrieve and codify the Hebrew scriptures, restoring them authoritatively and in the Hebrew language. Over centuries they laboured to complete the traditional, or Masoretic, text, which since its completion in the 10th century has come to be universally accepted. The Masoretic version was transmitted by scribes with amazing fidelity down to the time of movable type in the 15th century. "
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Septuagint
"Written in Hebrew between the 11th and 2nd centuries BCE, the Hebrew Bible, known as the Old Testament in the Christian tradition, is a very special product of the Ancient Near East. "
https://www.bl.uk/greek-manuscripts/articles/manuscripts-of-the-greek-old-testament
https://www.bible.ca/manuscripts/Se...akh-39-books-translated-complete-by-150BC.htm
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Septuagint
https://biblearchaeology.org/research/new-testament-era/4022-a-brief-history-of-the-septuagint
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint_manuscripts
https://www.gotquestions.org/septuagint.html
https://www.bibleodyssey.org/passag...hat-is-the-septuagint-and-why-does-it-matter/
https://dbts.edu/2019/10/01/when-and-where-was-the-septuagint-written/
"Hebrew scholars at Talmudic schools in Palestine and Babylonia about the 6th century CE began trying to retrieve and codify the Hebrew scriptures, restoring them authoritatively and in the Hebrew language. Over centuries they laboured to complete the traditional, or Masoretic, text, which since its completion in the 10th century has come to be universally accepted. The Masoretic version was transmitted by scribes with amazing fidelity down to the time of movable type in the 15th century. "
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Septuagint
"Written in Hebrew between the 11th and 2nd centuries BCE, the Hebrew Bible, known as the Old Testament in the Christian tradition, is a very special product of the Ancient Near East. "
https://www.bl.uk/greek-manuscripts/articles/manuscripts-of-the-greek-old-testament
https://www.bible.ca/manuscripts/Se...akh-39-books-translated-complete-by-150BC.htm
The most outstanding of the Dead Sea Scrolls is undoubtedly the Isaiah Scroll (Manuscript A) – the only biblical scroll from Qumran that has been preserved in its entirety (it is 734 cm long). This scroll is also one of the oldest to have been preserved; scholars estimate that it was written around 100 BCE.
List of Hebrew Manuscripts: **** best so far ***** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_...scrolls from,the Genesis Apocryphon (1QapGen).
https://www.imj.org.il/en/wings/shr...outstanding of the,was written around 100 BCE.
Vermes, Geza, The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English, London: Penguin, 1998. ISBN 0-14-024501-4.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_manuscripts_from_Qumran_Cave_1#CITEREFFitzmyer2008
https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/scrolls/libr.html
https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/learn-about-the-scrolls/languages-and-scripts?locale=en_US
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/history-and-overview-of-the-dead-sea-scrolls
List of Hebrew Manuscripts: **** best so far ***** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_...scrolls from,the Genesis Apocryphon (1QapGen).
https://www.imj.org.il/en/wings/shr...outstanding of the,was written around 100 BCE.
Vermes, Geza, The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English, London: Penguin, 1998. ISBN 0-14-024501-4.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_manuscripts_from_Qumran_Cave_1#CITEREFFitzmyer2008
https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/scrolls/libr.html
https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/learn-about-the-scrolls/languages-and-scripts?locale=en_US
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/history-and-overview-of-the-dead-sea-scrolls
Two young American Mormon blokes were once stopping people for a chat in the city centre and when they stopped me they said with a smile- "Excuse me sir, but can we ask what you know about the Lord Jesus Christ?", and I answered- "I think I heard somewhere that he's the Son of God".
Their eyes lit up and their smiles got even bigger, and they said- "That's exactly right sir, would you like to come with us to the cafe down the road to discuss it some more?"
But I told them I couldn't because I had to get to the computer shop before it closed.
However, if they'd have been sweet-smiling female mormons my heart strings might have started twanging like crazy and I daresay I'd have gone with them..
Their eyes lit up and their smiles got even bigger, and they said- "That's exactly right sir, would you like to come with us to the cafe down the road to discuss it some more?"
But I told them I couldn't because I had to get to the computer shop before it closed.
However, if they'd have been sweet-smiling female mormons my heart strings might have started twanging like crazy and I daresay I'd have gone with them..
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Thanks for sharing the information you found about the Greek Septuagint .
many Christians spend many years wondering and searching for truth about the authenticity of The Greek Septuagint and its reliability - their question is asked “ is this codex of scripture truly an original text that was created before Jesus was born ?
one think that is important to Christians who care about God's word is that from the very first Genesis book of the Bible in The Greek Septuagint.........
within Brentons Septuagint produced in 1844 from " POST CHRIST " manuscripts
........ we see Enoch at 165 years of age had his son Methuselah.
= this was 1,287 years after creation, and Mathusala at 167 years of age had Lamech. = this was 1,454 year s after creation and Lamech at 88 years of age had Noah = this was 1,642 years after creation.
in The Greek Septuagint - all of these numbers of this genealogy are totally different and contradicting the genealogy in The Masoretic Text of the historical Torah,
although - the flood in The Septuagint the flood does began 600 years after Noah was born = this genealogy brings the Septuagint account of the flood at “ 2,242 “ years after creation –
and in The Masoretic Text of the historical Torah the flood begins at “ 1,642 “ years after creation - because the timeline or generations are totally different.
But in The Greek Septuagint - If we subtract the year “ 1,287 “ when Methuselah was born from the year “ 2,242 = when the flood came.
2,242
1,287-
- - - - - = - 955 -
the math is completely off by 14 years. The Greek Septuagint says – Gen 5:26-27 - Mathusala died at 969 years - - - this is “ 14 “ years of difference. A total contradiction.__
In The Greek Septuagint - not only does the math not add up - but The Septuagint shows that - Mathusala literally lived 14 years after / longer – from when the flood had come ....
According to the math of The Septuagint - Mathusala lived 14 years longer after the flood occurred and then he died 14 years after the flood. The Septuagint genealogy timeline / computation says that he survived through the flood - but Mathusala was never on the ark.
This also means that the entire “ post - flood “ timeline of genealogies and chronological events remaining through the entire Greek Septuagint and after the flood are all based based upon this Genesis error, in The Masoretic Hebrew Text, the flood begins at “ 1,642 “ years after creation - But in The Greek Septuagint - If we subtract the year “ 1,287 “ when this occurred from the year - 2,242 - this sets everyone who is born after the flood 586 years into the future based on this and also sets the flood at least two or three generations added - of mankind born on earth.
according to the math of The Septuagint in the comparing of the two timelines with the Masoretic text ------- was Jesus Christ crucified 586 years after Rome conquered Jerusalem in AD 70.
In the Greek Septuagint - Shem does not even live to the time of Abraham,
in fact there is not a single factual physical proof or physical evidence of a Greek Septuagint existing before the 4 th century
interesting is that the Orthodox Septuagint made in 2008. is another " POST CHRIST " manuscripts version of the Septuagint which places Mathusala's death 6 years before the flood which makes sense however this is the type of Problem that Jerome faced when making his Latin Vulgate.
as Jerome looked to the Greek texts for guidance, he found nothing but a very limited amount of fragments and partial chapters that were filled with contradictions.
he found nothing but incomplete fragments - AND THOUSANDS OF CONTRADICTING GREEK MANUSCRIPTS WITH INCOMPLETE CHAPTERS
there were MANY, MANY different contradicting fragments and partial chapters of the Greek Old Testament in Jerome’s time.
and nothing was evident concerning what Greek manuscripts to use. THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF WHAT WAS THE GREEK SEPTAGINT or if this even existed,.
Jerome ultimately decided that the Old Testament HEBREW TEXT THAT HE HAD ACCESS TO could only properly be used and Jerome translated from the original Hebrew because he found no contradictions and found a complete volume of books.
as where there was not a single book of the Bible available in Greek and in many cases not even a compete chapter in Greek.
Jerome learned Hebrew from Jewish rabbis and completed his translation of the Bible into Latin. He submitted this work — which took him years to translate .....
i ask again - for my Christian Brothers to provide factual physical evidence of a Greek Septuagint outside of traditions, rumors and claims but none have ever produced a single chapter or a complete page of any manuscripts of a Greek Septuagint existing before Jesus Christ.
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If you ever have a chance to go through these books, you will find that the style of writing of all of these books are all the same type of atmosphere and style of theology and writing style - with just a different re - packaged message.
You just have to go through and read all of them to see what I am talking about meaning the same writing style.
These books - are
all of the Apocrypha
The book of Mormon
The Book of Enoch.
The book of Jubilees.
and the Quran.
And the Greek Septuagint.
They all have the same type of writing style, you can not miss it, once you read them, you see exactly what I am saying..
You just have to go through and read all of them to see what I am talking about meaning the same writing style.
These books - are
all of the Apocrypha
The book of Mormon
The Book of Enoch.
The book of Jubilees.
and the Quran.
And the Greek Septuagint.
They all have the same type of writing style, you can not miss it, once you read them, you see exactly what I am saying..
in fact - even the Greek speaking Christians themselves, in Greece, they did not translate their Greek Bibles into modern Greek for nearly 2000 years.
In 1850 Neophytas Bambas (or Vamvas) finished the New Testament into modern Greek but he was outcast and denounced by all of the churches in Greece. All of his Bibles were confiscated.
The Orthodox bishop of Crete burned his translations of the “New Testaments” and ousted him out completely.
The Greeks burned and immediately destroyed any attempt made by anyone translating the Bible into modern Greek.
In 1901, Alexandros Pallis attempted to translate the Gospels in Modern Greek. In Greece, the Greek Christians fell into a raging fit and gathered in a massive mob and created a furious, violent riot - in Athens, in 1901 in which 8 people died.
Today’s Greek Version (TGV) was produced in 1997 - this translation simply reflects the consensus of many different organizations and groups and what they feel the Bible should say -
it has nothing to do with ancient Greek Bible manuscripts.
In 1850 Neophytas Bambas (or Vamvas) finished the New Testament into modern Greek but he was outcast and denounced by all of the churches in Greece. All of his Bibles were confiscated.
The Orthodox bishop of Crete burned his translations of the “New Testaments” and ousted him out completely.
The Greeks burned and immediately destroyed any attempt made by anyone translating the Bible into modern Greek.
In 1901, Alexandros Pallis attempted to translate the Gospels in Modern Greek. In Greece, the Greek Christians fell into a raging fit and gathered in a massive mob and created a furious, violent riot - in Athens, in 1901 in which 8 people died.
Today’s Greek Version (TGV) was produced in 1997 - this translation simply reflects the consensus of many different organizations and groups and what they feel the Bible should say -
it has nothing to do with ancient Greek Bible manuscripts.
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