Are the trumpets and vials chronological in Revelation?

[Komentaja]

I would like to discuss your guys' view on the trumpets and vials of the book of Revelation

Are they in chronological order? Meaning first you have the 7 trumpets, then the 7 vials.

Or are they overlapping? Meaning you have one trumpet, one vial, second trumpet, second vial etc.

The judgments seem fairly similar, one has 3rd of sea turning to blood, the rest has all of it, same thing with the amount wildlife dying in the ocean iirc.

I would appreciate if someone could provide some biblical evidence as to whether its chronological or overlapping. My honest answer at the moment is I DONT KNOW, which is why I turn to you, for biblical evidence.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Are they in chronological order? Meaning first you have the 7 trumpets, then the 7 vials.

Yes, they are in chronological sequence. Indeed the bulk of Revelation (apart from a few parenthetical portions) is essentially chronological. God is not the God of confusion.

 

[Omegatime]

If they were not in chronogical order one would be wasting their time studying the chain of events

 

[jb]

I would like to discuss your guys' view on the trumpets and vials of the book of Revelation

Are they in chronological order? Meaning first you have the 7 trumpets, then the 7 vials.

Or are they overlapping? Meaning you have one trumpet, one vial, second trumpet, second vial etc.

The judgments seem fairly similar, one has 3rd of sea turning to blood, the rest has all of it, same thing with the amount wildlife dying in the ocean iirc.

I would appreciate if someone could provide some biblical evidence as to whether its chronological or overlapping. My honest answer at the moment is I DONT KNOW, which is why I turn to you, for biblical evidence.

No they are not!

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is NOT in chronological order!

The 7th Trumpet and the 7th Vial both occur on the last day of this age (the Day of the Lord/Christ), at the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus, the 6th and 7th Seals also deal with the 2nd Coming of Christ!

Have a look Here

 

[Nehemiah6]

The 7th Trumpet and the 7th Vial both occur on the last day of this age (the Day of the Lord/Christ),

1. The Day of the Lord is not a 24 hour period.
2. The Day of the Lord (LORD) and the Day of Christ are two different periods.
3. The 7th trumpet has 7 vials in sequence (each one following the previous one). So how can the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial occur on one day?
4. Whoever created that chart needs to have his head examined.

 

[Komentaja]

1. The Day of the Lord is not a 24 hour period.
2. The Day of the Lord (LORD) and the Day of Christ are two different periods.
3. The 7th trumpet has 7 vials in sequence (each one following the previous one). So how can the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial occur on one day?
4. Whoever created that chart needs to have his head examined.

Does it say that somewhere? If it does I think thats a slam dunk there.

 

[Komentaja]

https://jesusplusnothing.com/series/post/chronology-of-revelation

This guy sums up better what I have noticed, the last trumpet seal and vial all seem to be "THE END"

 

[Nehemiah6]

This guy sums up better what I have noticed, the last trumpet seal and vial all seem to be "THE END"

It all depends on what you mean by "the end". The Second Coming of Christ is NOT "the end", and we must follow the chronological sequence always in view of this tremendous event. But then there are many other events before "the end of the age" ("world" is not really appropriate).

 

[Komentaja]

It all depends on what you mean by "the end". The Second Coming of Christ is NOT "the end", and we must follow the chronological sequence always in view of this tremendous event. But then there are many other events before "the end of the age" ("world" is not really appropriate).

Quote from the article I linked:

"
When you read the 6th seal of Revelation and compare it with what Jesus said about His coming in Matt 24, it is hard not to see that they are describing the same event. And note that Jesus said this is what happens right at the end, 'after the tribulation of those days'. Here are the passages:

Mat 24:29-30 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (30) "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

Rev 6:12-17 I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; (13) and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. (14) The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (15) Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; (16) and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; (17) for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?" "


What about the 7th trumpet? Does that indicate that it occurs at the end as well?

Rev 10:7 ...in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.

Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever."


The 7th bowl is also the end

Rev 15:1 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels who had seven plagues, which are the last, because in them the wrath of God is finished.


My comment:

Also in Revelation 6:14 every island were moved out of their places, which is the 6th seal. But in the 7th vial it says "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. " in Rev 16:20

So there is no way that the islands flee TWICE, it has to be the same time

 

[Omegatime]

Komentaja said:

I dont think you have put all the pieces together and are assuming. In Rev 6 I see islands being dislodged from their place and islands removed in Rev 16.

Then there is the Day of the Lord

And I will show wonders in the heaven above
and signs on the earth beneath,
blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
20 the sun shall be turned into darkness
and the moon into blood,
before the day of the Lord comes,
the great and manifest day.

And the Day of the Llrd cannot come till------------

2 Thess 2:2 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God

Now that is at least half way thru the Tribulation

 

[Nehemiah6]

What about the 7th trumpet? Does that indicate that it occurs at the end as well?

No it does not. That is why talking about "the end" is misleading.

THE SEVEN LAST PLAGUES: SEVEN GOLDEN VIALS OF THE WRATH OF GOD
We need to start with Revelation 15 which presents the 7 last plagues and end with Revelation 19 which is the Second Coming of Christ. But not "the end of the age". And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God... And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. (Rev 15:1,7)

SEQUENCE OF EVENTS FOR VIALS
1. And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; (16:2)
2. And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea (16:3)
3. And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters (16:4)
4. And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun (16:8)
5. And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast (16:10)
6. And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates (16:12)
7. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. (16:17)

THEN COMES THE JUDGMENT OF "THE GREAT WHORE"
And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: (Rev 17:1)

THEN COMES THE FALL OF BABYLON (WHICH MAY ALREADY HAVE FALLEN)
And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. (Rev 18:1,2)

THEN COMES THE MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. (Rev 19:7)

THEN COMES THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST (COSMIC EVENTS NOT MENTIONED HERE) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. (Rev 19:11)

And this is just "the beginning"! The seven trumpets are mentioned in Revelation 8.

 

[Komentaja]

No it does not. That is why talking about "the end" is misleading.

THE SEVEN LAST PLAGUES: SEVEN GOLDEN VIALS OF THE WRATH OF GOD
We need to start with Revelation 15 which presents the 7 last plagues and end with Revelation 19 which is the Second Coming of Christ. But not "the end of the age". And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God... And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. (Rev 15:1,7)

SEQUENCE OF EVENTS FOR VIALS
1. And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; (16:2)
2. And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea (16:3)
3. And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters (16:4)
4. And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun (16:8)
5. And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast (16:10)
6. And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates (16:12)
7. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. (16:17)

THEN COMES THE JUDGMENT OF "THE GREAT WHORE"
And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: (Rev 17:1)

THEN COMES THE FALL OF BABYLON (WHICH MAY ALREADY HAVE FALLEN)
And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. (Rev 18:1,2)

THEN COMES THE MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. (Rev 19:7)

THEN COMES THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST (COSMIC EVENTS NOT MENTIONED HERE) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. (Rev 19:11)

And this is just "the beginning"! The seven trumpets are mentioned in Revelation 8.

Thanks this cleared it up, so we know for sure that the FINAL thing to occur is the vials.

Can you comment on why the last seal and last vial both have islands "fleeing"?

Revelation 6:14
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Revelation 16:20
And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

This is the 6th seal and 7th vial.

 

[Goldwing]

I would appreciate if someone could provide some biblical evidence as to whether its chronological or overlapping. My honest answer at the moment is I DONT KNOW, which is why I turn to you, for biblical evidence.

Would like to share the following insights from the book, "Jesus Final Victory" by L. W. Wilson, pgs. 397,398.

Summary: The book of Revelation indicates there will be two distinct phases of God’s wrath during the Great Tribulation. The first phase will be redemptive in nature. The second phase will be totally destructive. The first phase is called the seven trumpets and Jesus extends salvation to everyone who will worship Him. The second phase is called the seven last plagues or the seven bowls (or seven vials – KJV). Everyone who receives the mark of the beast will die during the seven bowls. The seven last plagues are represented as seven bowls (or vials) because every wicked person will be forced to drink (that is, experience) God’s wrath, a bitter mixture that contains no mercy. (Rev. 14:9,10)

[For further clarity the Father has predetermined the events of the tribulation as a means to separate the sheep/saints from the goats/wicked. It is a time in which the living shall pass judgement upon themselves during life and death circumstances in which the faith of all shall be tested. The saints shall choose to worship Christ, and be sealed, while the wicked shall receive the mark of the beast in order to buy and sell, for survival.]

Introduction: According to my calculations, the seven bowls will occur over a period of seventy days. If true, each plague could last ten days. The seven bowls are not discussed very often because most Bible students do not think they are particularly relevant. It is true that they will occur in the future, but they reveal additional information about God’s love and character that is helpful right now!

All who receive the mark of the beast will be affected by the first four bowls.These judgments will extract restitution from those who preyed on God’s saints. The last three bowls are directed at the defiant leaders of the world and those who work for them. Jesus intends to destroy kings and soldiers alike. The fifth bowl will strike down Lucifer’s theocracy/Babylon (his oficials and employees). The sixth bowl will unite the kings of the Earth and their armies to make war on Jesus as He appears and the seventh bowl will totally destroy the wicked and make Earth desolate. Jesus will destroy the kings and their armies by casting them into a lake of fire at the Second Coming and the rest of the wicked will drop dead when He commands them to die. (This command is represented as a sword that comes out of Jesus’ mouth.) By the end of the seventh bowl, all wicked people will be dead. (Rev.16:21; 19:19-21) As the saints meet the Lord in the air, Earth will be left desolate.

The seven last plagues are puzzling to some people. They ask, “Why would a God of love torture people? Isn’t torture the invention of the devil?” These questions are reasonable because the Bible says that God is love. However, the phrase, “God is love,” means more than many people realize. It means that all of God’s actions are consistent with principles of love. Because God’s actions are often misunderstood, the principles of love are often misunderstood. I prefer to define God’s love as a perfect balance between justice and mercy. According to infinite wisdom and changeless consistency, God knows when mercy is appropriate and when the demands of justice are required. This balance is always perfect because God is love personified! God’s actions demonstrate what love is and what love is not. Given this eternal truth, the seven bowls have to be understood as an expression of love because God will send them. As incredible as it seems, God’s love will be expressed through vengeance, exposure, and discovery.

 

[Goldwing]

With regard to the trumpet judgements of Rev. 8, note how often the phrase, "one-third," is used. This is because during these judgements only a third of God's wrath is poured out upon the earth, everybody. Whereas, during the bowl/vial judgements it will be the full cup. (Rev. 14:9,10) on those only, having the mark of the beast.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Can you comment on why the last seal and last vial both have islands "fleeing"?

It seems that the cosmic events will be so powerful that the islands will all disappear.

 

[Goldwing]

Can you comment on why the last seal and last vial both have islands "fleeing"?

 

[Goldwing]

Komentaja. Although your question was not directed at me, I would like to offer you the following explanation:

Rev. 5:2
And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

The question of worthiness is paramount to breaking the seals because each broken seal launches a new campaign on Earth. When He wrote the book, the Father predetermined that seven campaigns would be necessary to explain who Jesus really is and all that He represents. This exposure is necessary becauseJesus, the Creator, so closely identi es with His creation that noone can tell who He really is unless there is a revelation. The Father wants the universe to know that Jesus, in substance, is His equal. The Father wants everyone to know that man’s redeemer is a co-eternal, Almighty member of the Godhead
just like Himself. Even though they are distinct and separate beings, they are like twins, having no difference in substance, powers, or prerogatives. The seven campaigns will be completed when the seventh seal is broken at the end of the 1,000 years. Then, the revelation of Jesus Christ will be completed at the end of sin’s drama. Everyone will then know His full identity. After everyone knows who He is, Jesus will do an amazing thing:

“Then the end will come, when he [Jesus] hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he ‘has put everything un- der his feet.’ Now when it says that ‘everything’ has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.”(1Cor. 15:24-28)

A Short Summary of The Seven Seals
Sometimes, it is good to have a bird’s eye view of a topic that is quite involved. Therefore, a short summary of my understandingof the seven seals might be helpful before we proceed. The rstseal was broken in 1798. This seal is a campaign that promotes salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone. This campaign is controversial because it is in conflict with all of the religions of the world. In fact, millions of Christians have been led to believe that salvation comes through rituals, sacraments, or church affiliation. None of this is true. Salvation comes through faith, obediently surrendering our will (go-be-do) to the will of Christ. The campaign begun with the first seal and will continue until the time when the seventh trumpet is about to sound. The second seal was broken in 1800. This seal concerns the translation, publication, and distribution of the Bible – the only book on Earth that speaks authoritatively for God. This campaign will become very controversial during the Great Tribulation because Bible truth is opposed to the desires of the carnal nature. The third seal was broken in 1844. This seal reveals the concept of a pre-advent judgment. Jesus began judging the dead in 1844 and He will judge the living during the Great Tribulation. This campaign has been controversial, in part, because it rejects the idea that a person is judged at death and sent immediately to Heaven or hell. The fourth seal will be a campaign that reveals the sovereign authority of Jesus. This campaign has not begun yet, but when it does, a great controversy will erupt as to what constitutes the will of God. The breaking of the fourth seal will mark the beginning of the Great Tribulation.

Billions of people will learn after the fourth seal is broken that everyone on Earth is required to worship Jesus as Creator and Redeemer. Of course, this will be controversial. The fifth seal will be a campaign that reveals the faith of Jesus. There will be millions of martyrs for Christ when the fifth seal is broken. These martyrs will demonstrate the peace and resolve that
only comes through faith in Jesus.

The sixth seal will be a campaign revealing Christ’s authority as Almighty God. When the sixth seal is broken, Jesus will appear in clouds of glory at the Second Coming. He will return to Earth to destroy the wicked and rescue the righteous. (Rev. 6:12-14) [and yes every mountain and island will be moved out of their place, which happens at the end of the seventh vial/bowl judgement. Both prophecies are describing the same event]

Finally, the seventh seal will be a campaign that reveals the eternal deity of Jesus. The whole universe will learn that Jesus is equal to the Father in every way. After Jesus destroys the wicked and the Earth with fire, He will create a new Heaven and a new Earth.The saints will then watch as Jesus humbles Himself again. Jesus will return the power and authority which the Father gave Him. Once again, Jesus will become submissive to the Father’s will. Jesus will do this because of His great love for the Father and His creation.

Hope this adds more clarity to your understanding.

 

[Komentaja]

It seems that the cosmic events will be so powerful that the islands will all disappear.

Twice? Notice one of them is at the 6th seal, another one is at the 7th vial

 

[Nehemiah6]

Twice? Notice one of them is at the 6th seal, another one is at the 7th vial

Why not? Some may remain for future disappearance if they are more solidly in place..

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I would like to discuss your guys' view on the trumpets and vials of the book of Revelation

Are they in chronological order? Meaning first you have the 7 trumpets, then the 7 vials.

Or are they overlapping? Meaning you have one trumpet, one vial, second trumpet, second vial etc.

The judgments seem fairly similar, one has 3rd of sea turning to blood, the rest has all of it, same thing with the amount wildlife dying in the ocean iirc.

I would appreciate if someone could provide some biblical evidence as to whether its chronological or overlapping. My honest answer at the moment is I DONT KNOW, which is why I turn to you, for biblical evidence.

The seals are an image of gods declaration and judgement from heaven

When they are opened you hear the four beasts speaking and then the horses run out of heaven by that command

the tru pets are those judgements being announced to the earth

and the vials are the actual pouring out or fulfillment of the seals that were announced by the trumpets it’s not a timeline of literal events but a consent coming together a perpetual vision of the state of creation until Christs return

if you look at the seven seals being opened , the subsequent seven trumpets that are sounded and the seven vials that are poured out you’ll find a progressive puzzle that begins to make some form of sense

the seal to the trumpet to the vial is a progressive concept but revelation is t a literal book it’s John seeing from heaven spiritual visions based upon prior prophecy

The seals are something only Christ could open , this leads to the trumpets being sounded after the seals are opened and then the vials are those things coming to pass on earth this may not help lol but