Are gifts evidence of salvation?
- Thread starter Lamar
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
And you know my heart is not right because? Do you have this gift?
I too suspect that your heart is not right to receive the truth.
I suspect this because:
you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God is testing you to find out if you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. (Deut. 13:3)
and in all the deceptiveness of unrighteousness among those who are perishing. They perish because they would not receive the love of the truth, so that they might have been saved. And therefore God will send them strong delusion, so that they will believe lies; so that all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2nd Thes. 2:10-12)
So please stop side stepping and simply answer the question.
If you have forgotten it's Post# 92.
I too suspect that your heart is not right to receive the truth.
I suspect this because:
you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God is testing you to find out if you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. (Deut. 13:3)
and in all the deceptiveness of unrighteousness among those who are perishing. They perish because they would not receive the love of the truth, so that they might have been saved. And therefore God will send them strong delusion, so that they will believe lies; so that all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2nd Thes. 2:10-12)
So please stop side stepping and simply answer the question.
If you have forgotten it's Post# 92.
F
So we’re to assume prayer has no impact on these events? How about that miraculous recovery? From dead on the field to cleared to play in record time. Sounds miraculous to me. Prayer does usher in Gods healing. That’s biblical.
“Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.”
James 5:14-15 NIV
Also keep in mind we are encouraged in prayer.
“Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. Elijah was a human being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.”
James 5:16-18 NIV
It took Elijah 7 times of intense prayer to see Gods miracle of rain happen and finally that little cloud appeared in the distance the size of a mans fist. Do we pray like that today? Do we believe the Bible says what we are capable of as it says or not?
“Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.”
James 5:14-15 NIV
Also keep in mind we are encouraged in prayer.
“Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. Elijah was a human being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.”
James 5:16-18 NIV
It took Elijah 7 times of intense prayer to see Gods miracle of rain happen and finally that little cloud appeared in the distance the size of a mans fist. Do we pray like that today? Do we believe the Bible says what we are capable of as it says or not?
-
1
- Show all
Of course pray for healing 😊
I'm just saying that what people call miracles now ... Most of the time may not actually be a biblical miracle...but God answering prayer thru healing over time .
I'm not saying God doesn't do biblical miracles anymore..
But that they would be very rare and for very particular purposes.
Like in healing crusades and a person with bad legs goes for healing... They experience the euphoria of worship and the endorphins dull the pain in the legs. They go up the front thinking they are healed...the preacher claims healing.
They go home...the endorphins wear off...pain returns ...no biblical miracle there.
This is a common experience from these events.
In the article ..this probably is God working a healing. But a miracle?
Maybe... But you gotta eliminate all the other factors before claiming it.
I'm just saying that what people call miracles now ... Most of the time may not actually be a biblical miracle...but God answering prayer thru healing over time .
I'm not saying God doesn't do biblical miracles anymore..
But that they would be very rare and for very particular purposes.
Like in healing crusades and a person with bad legs goes for healing... They experience the euphoria of worship and the endorphins dull the pain in the legs. They go up the front thinking they are healed...the preacher claims healing.
They go home...the endorphins wear off...pain returns ...no biblical miracle there.
This is a common experience from these events.
In the article ..this probably is God working a healing. But a miracle?
Maybe... But you gotta eliminate all the other factors before claiming it.
F
you see I disagree on that. The unbelieving will always try to find a way to explain scientifically the miraculous. You can find Jesus stories one after another today . Cancer patients going in stage 4 deemed terminal . Prayers happen and they go back in to get checked out fully healed of cancer leaving doctors baffled. This stuff happens. That’s the same thing true faith healers do calling down Gods miracles on a person God has picked for God to heal through them, through their prayer for the sick. There is nothing unique about that. I think What you are doing is taking a few phoney “for profit” “scammers” or con artists who get all the attention and broad stroking a whole part of the faith as phony with them. The miraculous healings do happen. But our scientific evidence based culture loves to relegate it into the medical mystery files.
-
1
- Show all
F
To me anytime Gods hand moves and is working on this earth large or small I believe that is a miracle. Large and small they happened in the Bible , so why would that change now? If Jesus Christ is the same Yesterday, today and forever. Than this should be our operating assumption as believers today. Our lense through which we see our world and life should be primarily from that of a limitless God in the spiritual realm who does miraculous things for His children as he wills. To suggest the small things aren’t miraculous is really quite saddening to my heart. That’s like literally taking a gift from God and tossing it in a dumpster cause it isn’t what you wanted. Sadly if you pay close attention to the big miracles of the Bible you will notice Jesus say time and time again “your faith has made you well” Jesus still holds the power to do big things but do we have the faith in Him to bring it down from heaven to earth?🥺
One of the most ludicrous arguments that I have ever heard in a desperate effort to "get around" the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues and were saved before water baptism is that Balaam's donkey also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either. 
-
1
- Show all
No one can express the gifts of the Spirit if they are unsaved. However, not all supernatural manifestations are from God. There is a great deal that is counterfeit.
1 Corinthians 12:3 "Therefore I inform you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit."
This lack of emphasis on the Lordship of Christ bothers me a lot. The so-called "Toronto Blessing" more or less dismissed the Lord Jesus. Some modern "prophets" twist God's word to say that the Holy Spirit is Lord, based on 2 Corinthians 3:17. Such people are utterly deceived and should be ignored.
The real test of the reality of a Christian is not various manifestations. It is fruit, not gifts. 1 John 3:14, "We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death."
1 Corinthians 12:3 "Therefore I inform you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit."
This lack of emphasis on the Lordship of Christ bothers me a lot. The so-called "Toronto Blessing" more or less dismissed the Lord Jesus. Some modern "prophets" twist God's word to say that the Holy Spirit is Lord, based on 2 Corinthians 3:17. Such people are utterly deceived and should be ignored.
The real test of the reality of a Christian is not various manifestations. It is fruit, not gifts. 1 John 3:14, "We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death."
-
2
- Show all
One of the most ludicrous arguments that I have ever heard in a desperate effort to "get around" the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues and were saved before water baptism is that Balaam's donkey also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either.
Here is the text:
Acts 10:43-47
New King James Version
To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
No mention of them believing the gospel, repenting of sins or confessing Jesus as Lord. Most of all no mention of them being saved.
Those of the house of Cornelius were still water baptized so that their sins would be forgiven, they were not an exception.
The recording of Peter's insistence on their need for water baptism is quite telling.
You are simply trying to shoehorn faith alone regeneration theology into these verses.
Only certain groups of Pentecostals believe that speaking in tongues is proof of salvation, are you one of them?
Also as I've tried to point out many times here, Acts 2 and 10 were anomalies and not the norm. The Spirit FELL miraculously and unilaterally for a specific reason in both cases and that reason was for heavenly validation to those present which resulted in the establishment of the church in Jerusalem amongst the Jews first, and then amongst the Gentiles in Caesarea. The Jews in Jerusalem were the apostles who were already the Lord's, but the Gentiles in Caesarea were not yet saved, hence the need to be baptized in accordance with Acts 2:38-47.
F
Actually assuming the atheist is a true atheist not an angry rebellious prodigal claiming atheism . God will break the true atheist down over time because of their pride . Once the atheist can no longer rely on the things of this world to fulfill him he has to come to terms with his depraved state and then when everything around him has failed and he has been humbled the atheist now has ears to hear God speak into his heart now that his idols have failed him. God has to often break people down before He can build them up. “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble “