Are gifts evidence of salvation?

[Lamar]

1 Corinthians 2...start at verse 9.

I read the verses and still cannot see your point. It seems you are implying a esoteric basis for this knowledge. Am I correct?

 

[Cameron143]

I read the verses and still cannot see your point. It seems you are implying a esoteric basis for this knowledge. Am I correct?

If by esoteric you mean revelation and understanding given by God, then yes.

 

[DJT_47]

Yes it is! Jesus’ mission hasn’t changed. We are still tasked with the Great commission.

“Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13‬:‭7‬-‭8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭18‬-‭20‬ ‭NIV‬‬

You are mixing issues.
My comment wasn't in regard to the mission of saving souls per the great commission, but rather to your comment and in it's context

 

[Lamar]

If someone were to make such a large statement as that around cessation and form a major alleged doctrine around it. There should be something formal and (in context) right? to do otherwise wouldn’t that be leaning on our own understanding?

Cessation is not a doctrine, it is an observation.

Anti-cessation borders on purposeful blindness.

 

[FollowingtheWay]

You are mixing issues.
My comment wasn't in regard to the mission of saving souls per the great commission, but rather to your comment and in it's context

all these things are linked dynamically in our larger faith life. I’m not sure why you are isolating certain things at the exclusion of others. Jesus’ work is our work. We are co -workers with Christ.and Christ has given us every spiritual blessing to do the work.

“Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭3‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[FollowingtheWay]

Cessation is not a doctrine, it is an observation.

Anti-cessation borders on purposeful blindness.

So, essentially from you I’m hearing Cessation is essentially at its heart as an observation kin to that of doubting Thomas’ observations of the resurrected Christ . It’s the heart attitude of “If I can’t see it I’m not going to believe it” where does that align with the Spirit of our limitless, living, loving God of the universe?

 

[DJT_47]

The laying on of hands was passed to Church elders through the times. That didn’t end with the Apostle’s and I’m sure if you ask 3rd world missionaries they see God moving miraculously as they are still building the church. Ask them if they believe in cessation. That early church age continues today weather you accept that or not. I think you have added a timeline that isn’t there to the Bible . The early church and our age is one in the same. Our work in building up the church isn’t over we haven’t reached every people group yet. We are still the midst of the great commission.

Where does it say or even infer that??? There is no scriptural evidence that the laying on of the apostle's hands was passed on in perpetuity. On the contrary, you can clearly see by the origin that the power frkm on high was solely meant for the apostles.

 

[FollowingtheWay]

Where does it say or even infer that??? There is no scriptural evidence that the laying on of the apostle's hands was passed on in perpetuity. On the contrary, you can clearly see by the origin that the power frkm on high was solely meant for the apostles.

“Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching. Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you. Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4‬:‭13‬-‭15‬ ‭NIV‬‬

These were considered elementary teachings - taken as assumed normative average Christian life. To my understanding-
“Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NIV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/111/heb.6.1-3.NIV

 

[ResidentAlien]

So, essentially from you I’m hearing Cessation is essentially at its heart as an observation kin to that of doubting Thomas’ observations of the resurrected Christ . It’s the heart attitude of “If I can’t see it I’m not going to believe it” where does that align with the Spirit of our limitless, living, loving God of the universe?

If I remember right, Jesus showed Thomas his wounds. Are the so-called miracle workers today too good for that? Or is it they simply have nothing to show?

 

[oldhermit]

Is possession of physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit evidence of a saved status?Example: Does the ability to speak or translate tongues "prove" you are in a saved state?

Ask Baalam's donkey.

 

[DJT_47]

all these things are linked dynamically in our larger faith life. I’m not sure why you are isolating certain things at the exclusion of others. Jesus’ work is our work. We are co -workers with Christ.and Christ has given us every spiritual blessing to do the work.

“Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭3‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Catch all phrases and related logic or illogic doesn't work when trying to understand the truth of scripture. You either seek truth in depth or you don't, and make ill-conceived comments from the peanut
gallery as you do. Goodbye.

 

[Lamar]

So, essentially from you I’m hearing Cessation is essentially at its heart as an observation kin to that of doubting Thomas’ observations of the resurrected Christ . It’s the heart attitude of “If I can’t see it I’m not going to believe it” where does that align with the Spirit of our limitless, living, loving God of the universe?

Wow! Talk about conjecture.

I write that cessation is an observation and you label this as akin to being a doubting Thomas?

What am I supposed to do with the lack of evidence to the claims of the supernatural?

Answer that question.

Am I simply to turn a blind eye to the evil of false claims of supernatural manifestations? Is this what you are suggesting?

 

[DJT_47]

“Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching. Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you. Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4‬:‭13‬-‭15‬ ‭NIV‬‬

These were considered elementary teachings - taken as assumed normative average Christian life. To my understanding-
“Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NIV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/111/heb.6.1-3.NIV

And to whom was this statement made?? You, us? No: Timothy!

 

[FollowingtheWay]

Wow! Talk about conjecture.

I write that cessation is an observation and you label this as akin to being a doubting Thomas?

What am I supposed to do with the lack of evidence to the claims of the supernatural?

Answer that question.

Am I simply to turn a blind eye to the evil of false claims of supernatural manifestations? Is this what you are suggesting?

If your offended then perhaps Cessation is more than just a observation to you. You have made it a doctrinal position or you wouldn’t be offended.

 

[DJT_47]

If Jesus told the disciples to lay hands on the sick and they would recover and he is the same yesterday, today and forever then he can still operate through someone as his spirit instructs. No difference. I dont put God in a box and tell him who he is or how he acts, I let him tell me. I do agree though that there are many fakes.

Yes, many fakes, like 100%

 

[Lamar]

If by esoteric you mean revelation and understanding given by God, then yes.

That is what esoteric means.

I suggest you walk carefully along the road of your esoteric knowledge. It usually leads to destruction.

 

[Cameron143]

Wow! Talk about conjecture.

I write that cessation is an observation and you label this as akin to being a doubting Thomas?

What am I supposed to do with the lack of evidence to the claims of the supernatural?

Answer that question.

Am I simply to turn a blind eye to the evil of false claims of supernatural manifestations? Is this what you are suggesting?

Experience is a bad way to establish doctrine. It can easily lead you into error.
I've never been to Hawaii. I'm pretty sure it exists.

 

[Cameron143]

That is what esoteric means.

I suggest you walk carefully along the road of your esoteric knowledge. It usually leads to destruction.

How would you know? You have no experience with it.
How exactly does the Spirit lead one into all truth?

 

[Lamar]

If your offended then perhaps Cessation is more than just a observation to you. You have made it a doctrinal position or you wouldn’t be offended.

I will not bite.
I am not offended. You are simply trying to avoid responding to my rebuttal.

 

[FollowingtheWay]

Catch all phrases and related logic or illogic doesn't work when trying to understand the truth of scripture. You either seek truth in depth or you don't, and make ill-conceived comments from the peanut
gallery as you do. Goodbye.

“And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ,”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭1‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭NIV‬‬