Faith alone, faith plus works? Something is missing in this discussion

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07-07-07

Active member
#61
Jun 13, 2023
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#61
Radius said:
Nice Op.

And I would like to add that if one professes to have faith it will be evident by the works they do. If one says they have faith then they will show good works. Not that the good works justifies the believer, it is merely evidence of the faith that one professes to have. This is a brief summary of James 2
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Well said. If works do not follow after Grace has been received, it's dead faith. That kind of faith is not what our Lord Jesus taught, and saves no one.

Ephesians 2
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#62
Dec 18, 2021
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#62
Gideon300 said:
A few years ago, God asked me a question. He said, "How were you saved?" I replied, "By grace". He said, "What saved you yesterday? "I thought for a moment, and said, "Grace". He said, "And what saves you today?" The answer was obvious. I am saved by grace every day. So are you.

The problem with emphasising faith is that it puts the attention on us. When we focus on the grace of God, we are looking at Jesus who loved us and gave Himself for us. Don't kid yourselves, no one has faith unless God gives it to us. Faith comes through hearing the word of Christ. (Romans 10:17). It is no coincidence when someone preaches the gospel to us. God arranges the time and place for us to hear the Word. Our part is to respond to the preaching of the gospel.

God is not obliged to save anyone. All have sinned and fall short of His glory. Yet His great love activates His grace and multitudes have been saved. Why some and not others is a mystery. That anyone is saved is a miracle.
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For it is by GRACE we have been saved through faith

Amen, it is Grace that saves, it is faith that receives the grace.

But faith does not save us, grace does.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#63
Dec 18, 2021
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#63
ResidentAlien said:
Not buying it. If I said "I have faith in myself," then I could see how the focus has shifted from God to me. But simply saying my faith is in the Lord in no way implies I think I can save myself. You've taken some strange idea and turned it into a way for people to feel guilty for no reason.
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Whan you say you have faith in God.

in what sense..

did you receive his gift? or are you trusting God to work through you?
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#64
Dec 18, 2021
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#64
Lamar said:
Regardless of if it is considered a "biblical concept", must we accept it?
Or is it accepted on our behalf by the giver of the grace?
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You don;t accept grace..

Grace is the cost to you.

It is the gift you recieve.

You either say yes or you say no..
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#65
Dec 18, 2021
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#65
SteveEpperson said:
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, John 1:12

Receive and believe are action verbs.

And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work. 2 Cor. 9:8

Abound is the same thing as:

  • Do
  • Work
  • Proliferate
  • Remain
  • Act
  • Run

The "not-saved-by-works" mantra is a separate religion unto itself. People in many churches are so afraid of the word "work" that when it appears anywhere in conversation, it is cast down in the name of this new religion. Even more dangerous is when we conflate "not-saved-by-works" with scripture that tells us to do something, as I believe you've done here.

"Not-saved-by-works" is also an extremely lame excuse for not lifting a finger to help your fellow brother or sister in Christ. It's becoming old and tired, and younger people are seeing right through it.

That's why they're turning to:
  • Paganism
  • Transgender ideology
  • Government programs
  • Crime and lawlessness
  • Abortion, humanism, and euthanasia
Once we can get past the false doctrine of not working within the church, we can begin to once again make a change for our local communities. We will no longer be afraid of putting forth effort and somehow losing our salvation in the process.
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usually the not saved by works is used to fight those who say we are saved by works

People do not just go out and argue not saved by works for the heck of it
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#66
Jul 18, 2017
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#66
NightTwister said:
You shouldn't bear false witness against your neighbor. Especially not your brother in Christ. Oh wait, you consider all Calvanists to be heretics. Never mind. Still a neighbor though...
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Since you are the one focused on Romans 9 there is no false witness. I exposed your false ideas and you did not thank me.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#68
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#68
NightTwister said:
So you're just going to continue bearing false witness against me. Got it.
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Check my earlier responses to your posts. You are promoting a false gospel (Calvinism). That is a true witness.
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#71
May 21, 2023
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#71
Everlasting-Grace said:
You don;t accept grace..

Grace is the cost to you.

It is the gift you recieve.

You either say yes or you say no..
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So the onus is directed to us. We must accept the grace in order to benefit from the grace.

We must "say yes or you say no.."

Is this not correct?
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#76
Dec 18, 2021
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#76
Lamar said:
So the onus is directed to us. We must accept the grace in order to benefit from the grace.

We must "say yes or you say no.."

Is this not correct?
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If a person comes to give you a gift.

what two options do you have? or is there a third one?
 
NightTwister

NightTwister

Well-known member
#77
Jul 5, 2023
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Colorado, USA
#77
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#79
Dec 18, 2021
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#79
NightTwister said:
If someone pays your mortgage, what options do you have? None. It's paid.
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That is not what happens though

Jesus paid for everyone's sin, He did not pay for the sin of unbelief

that's why he said over and over we must believe..

he also said he who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already why?? Because Christ did nto die for them? No, Because they did not believe
 
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