Faith alone, faith plus works? Something is missing in this discussion

[SteveEpperson]

Why does God's grace has to be given to everyone?

Because it's a promise:

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 2 Peter 3: 9

I think this verse establishes three basic truths:

1. God wants all to choose salvation over eternal death.

2. To be saved, we must come to repentance.

3. God promises to save us when we do.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Why does God's grace has to be given to everyone? (I'm not disagreeing, asking the question). I don't believe John 3:17 addresses that.

John 3:17 addresses that issue very plainly. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Who might be saved? The world.
What is "the world"? The world of humanity.
How are people saved? By grace through faith.
Would everyone need to receive the gift of saving faith in order to be saved? Absolutely.
Do all receive this gift and are all therefore saved? Absolutely not.
Does that mean that you are seriously mistaken? Absolutely.

 

[studentoftheword]

I don't know why. God sought out Abraham, not vice versa. That's grace.

Well I think that God had already had chosen Abraham to be the Father of many nations before He created this World ------ God had a plan in place before He ever created this World and had all His people picked out before hand that He was going to use to bring His plan into place ---- they were Predestined to be in the roles they were before they were born -----Noah ---Abraham ---Jacob ----Moses ----Elijah ---Enoch ---Jeremiah ----Jonah---David ---etc --etc ----all predestined before they were born to be God's chosen to bring His plan about ----and His plan is still playing out to this day ----



In the Old Testament -----God's Call came first ----obedience was their faith in Action to God's call ---therefore their Faith in God was shown and through their obedience which was their Faith in Him God counted them righteous ----

I say ----God called Abraham and Abraham obeyed which showed His Faith and trust in God -----I believe Abraham was chosen and separated for God purpose before he was born -----


Genesis 12

New International Version

The Call of Abram
12 The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you.

2 “I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.[a]
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”[b]

4 So Abram went, as the Lord had told him;



Jeremiah 1:4-5

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition

4 Then the word of the Lord came to me [Jeremiah], saying,

5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew [and] approved of you [as My chosen instrument], and before you were born I separated and set you apart, consecrating you; [and] I appointed you as a prophet to the nations

 

[Lamar]

God's sovereign grace and my personal responsibility are not in conflict with one another.

Agreed...but what about the question???

 

[NightTwister]

Agreed...but what about the question???

"Acceptance of grace" is not a biblical concept. God's grace is... e.g. He allows the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.

 

[Lamar]

"Acceptance of grace" is not a biblical concept. God's grace is... e.g. He allows the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.

Regardless of if it is considered a "biblical concept", must we accept it?
Or is it accepted on our behalf by the giver of the grace?

 

[NightTwister]

Regardless of if it is considered a "biblical concept", must we accept it?
Or is it accepted on our behalf by the giver of the grace?

I just showed how Grace is not something you can "accept." Grace means "unmerited favor."

 

[SteveEpperson]

"Acceptance of grace" is not a biblical concept.

Which bible are you reading? Here's one passage of scripture to the contrary.:

...because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and thus has righteousness and with the mouth one confesses and thus has salvation. For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between the Jew and the Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who richly blesses all who call on him. For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Romans 10:9-13

There are three notable action verbs in this passage: Confess, believe, and call.

When we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord over our lives AND believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead AND call on His name, we are bearing evidence to His free gift of grace. When we do (yes, do) all those things, we have accepted His grace.

It's the same as with a child at a birthday party. They see the gift lying on the table, ready for them to open it. But to accept it, they must physically walk to the table, summon the strength to lift the box, and open it. At that point, they have accepted the gift. If they leave it on the table, they have not accepted the gift.

 

[NightTwister]

Which bible are you reading? Here's one passage of scripture to the contrary.:

...because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and thus has righteousness and with the mouth one confesses and thus has salvation. For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between the Jew and the Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who richly blesses all who call on him. For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Romans 10:9-13

There are three notable action verbs in this passage: Confess, believe, and call.

When we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord over our lives AND believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead AND call on His name, we are bearing evidence to His free gift of grace. When we do (yes, do) all those things, we have accepted His grace.

It's the same as with a child at a birthday party. They see the gift lying on the table, ready for them to open it. But to accept it, they must physically walk to the table, summon the strength to lift the box, and open it. At that point, they have accepted the gift. If they leave it on the table, they have not accepted the gift.

"So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy." Romans 9:16 ESV

 

[SteveEpperson]

"So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy." Romans 9:16 ESV

But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, John 1:12

Receive and believe are action verbs.

And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work. 2 Cor. 9:8

Abound is the same thing as:

• Do
• Work
• Proliferate
• Remain
• Act
• Run

The "not-saved-by-works" mantra is a separate religion unto itself. People in many churches are so afraid of the word "work" that when it appears anywhere in conversation, it is cast down in the name of this new religion. Even more dangerous is when we conflate "not-saved-by-works" with scripture that tells us to do something, as I believe you've done here.

"Not-saved-by-works" is also an extremely lame excuse for not lifting a finger to help your fellow brother or sister in Christ. It's becoming old and tired, and younger people are seeing right through it.

That's why they're turning to:

• Paganism
• Transgender ideology
• Government programs
• Crime and lawlessness
• Abortion, humanism, and euthanasia

Once we can get past the false doctrine of not working within the church, we can begin to once again make a change for our local communities. We will no longer be afraid of putting forth effort and somehow losing our salvation in the process.

 

[Nehemiah6]

"So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy." Romans 9:16 ESV

Except that this verse should not be taken out of context. God will have mercy on all who will repent and believe, but He won't do the repenting and believing for them. THERE MUST BE A RESPONSE TO THR GOSPEL BY THE HEARERS.

 

[ResidentAlien]

You are a bit touchy.

Yeah, I'm touchy. Standard playbook to discredit someone who disagrees with you. Maybe you should stop and consider the ridiculousness of your proposition instead of trying to discredit me.

Only in an internet forum could something so ridiculous gain any traction.

 

[JohnRH]

God is not obliged to save anyone.

Yes He is.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved". He either obligated Himself with that statement or He's a liar.

 

[NightTwister]

Except that this verse should not be taken out of context. God will have mercy on all who will repent and believe, but He won't do the repenting and believing for them. THERE MUST BE A RESPONSE TO THR GOSPEL BY THE HEARERS.

You just added "context" that isn't there.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You just added "context" that isn't there.

OK. So Let's look at the context.

ROMANS 9: WHY WAS PHARAOH'S HEART HARDENED AFTER HE HARDENED HIS HEART?
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Could Pharoah repented several times but refused to do so?
Did there come a time when God said "Enough is enough" and deliberately hardened Pharaoah's heart?
Would God have had mercy on Pharaoh had he truly repented?
Will God have mercy on those those who truly repent and believe?

All these questions have a positive answer but you pulled one verse out of context to show how clever you are. The Bible makes it crystal clear that God gives all sinners many opportunities to repent. He even resurrected Jonah to illustrate this. It is not because of our self-effort ("him that willeth or runneth") but purely because of God's grace and mercy that sinners are saved.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Addressing the title, not the content of the post;
The thing missing is understanding. Faith produces works, faith is salvation, this faith causes a person to act. However a person may act in as much as they by force of will may work; their faith is in the act, supposing salvation is in the doing. But salvation isnt in the doing but the doing is in salvation. The one with faith is compelled to do not by conscious effort but by the compelling of the conscience.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I want to do good but not because i actually want to do good, but because my inner self can not bear not doing good.

 

[NightTwister]

OK. So Let's look at the context.

ROMANS 9: WHY WAS PHARAOH'S HEART HARDENED AFTER HE HARDENED HIS HEART?
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Could Pharoah repented several times but refused to do so?
Did there come a time when God said "Enough is enough" and deliberately hardened Pharaoah's heart?
Would God have had mercy on Pharaoh had he truly repented?
Will God have mercy on those those who truly repent and believe?

All these questions have a positive answer but you pulled one verse out of context to show how clever you are. The Bible makes it crystal clear that God gives all sinners many opportunities to repent. He even resurrected Jonah to illustrate this. It is not because of our self-effort ("him that willeth or runneth") but purely because of God's grace and mercy that sinners are saved.

And not only so, but Ge 25:21
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OK. So Let's look at the context.

ROMANS 9: WHY WAS PHARAOH'S HEART HARDENED AFTER HE HARDENED HIS HEART?
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Could Pharoah repented several times but refused to do so?
Did there come a time when God said "Enough is enough" and deliberately hardened Pharaoah's heart?
Would God have had mercy on Pharaoh had he truly repented?
Will God have mercy on those those who truly repent and believe?

All these questions have a positive answer but you pulled one verse out of context to show how clever you are. The Bible makes it crystal clear that God gives all sinners many opportunities to repent. He even resurrected Jonah to illustrate this. It is not because of our self-effort ("him that willeth or runneth") but purely because of God's grace and mercy that sinners are saved.

And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Romans 9:10-13

 

[studentoftheword]

Acceptance of grace" is not a biblical concept. God's grace is... e.g. He allows the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.

This is common grace that you speak of here ------God is kind to the wicked and ungreatful -----this Grace is bestowed on all humanity at birth -----when your able to open your eyes in the morning after sleep ---that is God's common Grace ------

Then there is Special Grace or as some call it Saving Grace which is God the Father sending His Son to shed His blood to cover all sin for all time for all people -----you can accept it or reject it

 

[NightTwister]

This is common grace that you speak of here ------God is kind to the wicked and ungreatful -----this Grace is bestowed on all humanity at birth -----when your able to open your eyes in the morning after sleep ---that is God's common Grace ------

Then there is Special Grace or as some call it Saving Grace which is God the Father sending His Son to shed His blood to cover all sin for all time for all people -----you can accept it or reject it

There's no biblical support for your description of Special Grace. Grace in every case is "unmerited favor." That's not something you can accept or reject. It would no longer be "unmerited" if you could.