Mormon God
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God stands in the assembly of the gods.[a]
He stands as judge among the judges.
2 He says, “How long will you judge unfairly
and show special favors to the wicked?” Selah
3 “Defend the poor and orphans.
Protect the rights of the poor.
4 Help those who are poor and helpless.
Save them from those who are evil.
5 “They don’t know what is happening.
They don’t understand!
They don’t know what they are doing.
Their world is falling down around them!”
6 I, God Most High, say,
“You are gods, my own sons.
7 But you will die as all people must die.
Your life will end like that of any ruler.”
8 Get up, God! You be the judge!
You be the leader over all the nations!
He stands as judge among the judges.
2 He says, “How long will you judge unfairly
and show special favors to the wicked?” Selah
3 “Defend the poor and orphans.
Protect the rights of the poor.
4 Help those who are poor and helpless.
Save them from those who are evil.
5 “They don’t know what is happening.
They don’t understand!
They don’t know what they are doing.
Their world is falling down around them!”
6 I, God Most High, say,
“You are gods, my own sons.
7 But you will die as all people must die.
Your life will end like that of any ruler.”
8 Get up, God! You be the judge!
You be the leader over all the nations!
"One great obstacle in considering this subject is the generally misunderstood meaning of the word “god”. The Greek word “theos” (god) does not always refer to Jehovah. It signifies a mighty one, a ruler, and especially a religious or sacerdotal ruler. In the following texts the word “god” (theos) is used to refer to others than the one supreme being, Jehovah—John 10:34, 35; Acts 7:40, 43; 17:23; 1 Corinthians 8:5. "
https://chicagobible.org/can-you-explain-john-1034-what-does-it-mean-ye-are-gods/
https://chicagobible.org/can-you-explain-john-1034-what-does-it-mean-ye-are-gods/
L
It was one heathen against another. I think most were voting for "the lesser of two evils". Many held their nose and voted like taking medicine. We havent had a Christian presidential option in my life time. It would help if Christians would stick together and make a voting block, but well we have what we have.
Psalm 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
speaking to Judges of Israel
Isaiah 41:23
Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
I do not remember this context.
John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Jesus was making an argument that he is the Son of God. And, that he has the same nature as his Father.
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
speaking to Judges of Israel
Isaiah 41:23
Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
I do not remember this context.
John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Jesus was making an argument that he is the Son of God. And, that he has the same nature as his Father.
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i seriously hate the Septuagint Version.
it makes it seem like God is talking to people.
so, let's use the Tanakh, the Hebrew, not adulterated by any Greek at all.
6 I said, "You are angelic creatures, and all of you are angels of the Most High." ואֲֽנִ֣י אָ֖מַרְתִּי אֱלֹהִ֣ים אַתֶּ֑ם וּבְנֵ֖י עֶלְי֣וֹן כֻּלְּכֶֽם:
7 Indeed, as man, you will die, and as one of the princes, you will fall. זאָכֵ֥ן כְּאָדָ֣ם תְּמוּת֑וּן וּכְאַחַ֖ד הַשָּׂרִ֣ים תִּפֹּֽלוּ:
how, in the world, did the Greek translators screw up so bad, they made LITERAL real deal Angels, into human beings called judges?
the ignorance is real!
Verse 7, even shows us they are Princes, like Daniel called Gabriel, Michael, and Satan, all were called Princes.
it makes it seem like God is talking to people.
so, let's use the Tanakh, the Hebrew, not adulterated by any Greek at all.
6 I said, "You are angelic creatures, and all of you are angels of the Most High." ואֲֽנִ֣י אָ֖מַרְתִּי אֱלֹהִ֣ים אַתֶּ֑ם וּבְנֵ֖י עֶלְי֣וֹן כֻּלְּכֶֽם:
7 Indeed, as man, you will die, and as one of the princes, you will fall. זאָכֵ֥ן כְּאָדָ֣ם תְּמוּת֑וּן וּכְאַחַ֖ד הַשָּׂרִ֣ים תִּפֹּֽלוּ:
how, in the world, did the Greek translators screw up so bad, they made LITERAL real deal Angels, into human beings called judges?
the ignorance is real!
Verse 7, even shows us they are Princes, like Daniel called Gabriel, Michael, and Satan, all were called Princes.
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They were devout Jews who were native speakers of both Hebrew and Greek, and we do not know whether there were any variants of the Hebrew text that they worked from.
The Hebrew word is elohim in v. 6
Your argument for translating that as judges is interesting, and has linguistic merit because elohim is used that way a few times, but it begs the question of why John 10:34 has the Greek word 'theos' when Jesus quotes the Psalm?
Did John misquote Him in his gospel? because theos does not have any alternative definition.
The Hebrew word is elohim in v. 6
Your argument for translating that as judges is interesting, and has linguistic merit because elohim is used that way a few times, but it begs the question of why John 10:34 has the Greek word 'theos' when Jesus quotes the Psalm?
Did John misquote Him in his gospel? because theos does not have any alternative definition.
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Jesus just said He and the Father are ONE.
they were going to kill him.
Jesus asked, why, what did He do.
they said, He made Himself equal to God.
then Jesus used this we are gods terms.
but, He said, in Your Law.
I believe He referenced to Moses being a God to Pharaoh, not about what King David wrote.
Moses and Pharaoh, Genesis, 5 Books of Torah, the LAW.
the Pre-incarnate Jesus, said to Moses as Elohim and I AM TO BE, you will be seen as a God to Pharaoh.
they were going to kill him.
Jesus asked, why, what did He do.
they said, He made Himself equal to God.
then Jesus used this we are gods terms.
but, He said, in Your Law.
I believe He referenced to Moses being a God to Pharaoh, not about what King David wrote.
Moses and Pharaoh, Genesis, 5 Books of Torah, the LAW.
the Pre-incarnate Jesus, said to Moses as Elohim and I AM TO BE, you will be seen as a God to Pharaoh.
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But He quotes,
John 10:34
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are gods"'?
He is clearly citing the Psalm ((interestingly calling it part of the Law))
The phrasing is not how it is written in Exodus; it is exact quote from the septuagint of the Psalm. I don't think that's arguable.
You are not wrong that these are related, tho. the Exodus passages inform our understanding of what the Psalm means, and why Jesus uses it here, and couples it with being a Son of God, in His case, THE Son, the exact nature and substance of God.
John 10:34
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are gods"'?
He is clearly citing the Psalm ((interestingly calling it part of the Law))
The phrasing is not how it is written in Exodus; it is exact quote from the septuagint of the Psalm. I don't think that's arguable.
You are not wrong that these are related, tho. the Exodus passages inform our understanding of what the Psalm means, and why Jesus uses it here, and couples it with being a Son of God, in His case, THE Son, the exact nature and substance of God.
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it's a good mystery for sure.
i also think, when Jesus said it, it threw them because it confused them because it sounds like David, but Jesus said it is the Law. and then we read, Jesus, slips right past them.
I think it was a diversion tactic.
but, Jesus cannot lie, so, there must be something in the first 5 Books we're missing to have a better understanding.
i also think, when Jesus said it, it threw them because it confused them because it sounds like David, but Jesus said it is the Law. and then we read, Jesus, slips right past them.
I think it was a diversion tactic.
but, Jesus cannot lie, so, there must be something in the first 5 Books we're missing to have a better understanding.
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Those who translated the LXX knew both Hebrew and Greek.
אֲֽנִי־אָ֭מַרְתִּי אֱלֹהִ֣ים אַתֶּ֑ם וּבְנֵ֖י עֶלְי֣וֹן כֻּלְּכֶֽם׃
I had taken you for divine beings,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
https://www.sefaria.org/Psalms.82.6?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en
Psalm 82:6 ►
אֲֽנִי־אָ֭מַרְתִּי אֱלֹהִ֣ים אַתֶּ֑ם וּבְנֵ֖י עֶלְי֣וֹן כֻּלְּכֶֽם׃
I had taken you for divine beings,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
https://www.sefaria.org/Psalms.82.6?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en
Psalm 82:6 ►
Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Hebrew
Strong'sHebrewEnglishMorphology
589 [e]אֲֽנִי־
’ănî-IPro-1cs
559 [e]אָ֭מַרְתִּי
’ā-mar-tîsaidV-Qal-Perf-1cs
430 [e]אֱלֹהִ֣ים
’ĕ-lō-hîmgodsN-mp
859 [e]אַתֶּ֑ם
’at-tem;You [are]Pro-2mp
1121 [e]וּבְנֵ֖י
ū-ḇə-nêand childrenConj-w | N-mpc
5945 [e]עֶלְי֣וֹן
‘el-yō-wnof the Most HighAdj-ms
3605 [e]כֻּלְּכֶֽם׃
kul-lə-ḵem.all of you [are]N-msc | 2mp
https://biblehub.com/text/psalms/82-6.htmGo to Parallel Hebrew
Strong'sHebrewEnglishMorphology
589 [e]אֲֽנִי־
’ănî-IPro-1cs
559 [e]אָ֭מַרְתִּי
’ā-mar-tîsaidV-Qal-Perf-1cs
430 [e]אֱלֹהִ֣ים
’ĕ-lō-hîmgodsN-mp
859 [e]אַתֶּ֑ם
’at-tem;You [are]Pro-2mp
1121 [e]וּבְנֵ֖י
ū-ḇə-nêand childrenConj-w | N-mpc
5945 [e]עֶלְי֣וֹן
‘el-yō-wnof the Most HighAdj-ms
3605 [e]כֻּלְּכֶֽם׃
kul-lə-ḵem.all of you [are]N-msc | 2mp
Jesus is quoting from below, there it was human judges:
Psalm 82
Complete Jewish Bible
82 (0) A psalm of Asaf:
(1) Elohim [God] stands in the divine assembly;
there with the elohim [judges], he judges:
2 “How long will you go on judging unfairly,
favoring the wicked? (Selah)
3 Give justice to the weak and fatherless!
Uphold the rights of the wretched and poor!
4 Rescue the destitute and needy;
deliver them from the power of the wicked!”
5 They don’t know, they don’t understand,
they wander about in darkness;
meanwhile, all the foundations of the earth
are being undermined.
6 “My decree is: ‘You are elohim [gods, judges],
sons of the Most High all of you.
7 Nevertheless, you will die like mortals;
like any prince, you will fall.’”
8 Rise up, Elohim, and judge the earth;
for all the nations are yours.
From John 10, I think it was also humans:
inside the Temple area, in Shlomo’s Colonnade. 24 So the Judeans surrounded him and said to him, “How much longer are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us publicly!” 25 Yeshua answered them, “I have already told you, and you don’t trust me. The works I do in my Father’s name testify on my behalf, 26 but the reason you don’t trust is that you are not included among my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice, I recognize them, they follow me, 28 and I give them eternal life. They will absolutely never be destroyed, and no one will snatch them from my hands. 29 My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than all; and no one can snatch them from the Father’s hands. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Once again the Judeans picked up rocks in order to stone him. 32 Yeshua answered them, “You have seen me do many good deeds that reflect the Father’s power; for which one of these deeds are you stoning me?” 33 The Judeans replied, “We are not stoning you for any good deed, but for blasphemy — because you, who are only a man, are making yourself out to be God [a].” 34 Yeshua answered them, “Isn’t it written in your Torah, ‘I have said, “You people are Elohim’ ”?[b] 35 If he called ‘elohim’ the people to whom the word of Elohim was addressed (and the Tanakh cannot be broken), 36 then are you telling the one whom the Father set apart as holy and sent into the world, ‘You are committing blasphemy,’ just because I said, ‘I am a son of Elohim’?
37 “If I am not doing deeds that reflect my Father’s power, don’t trust me. 38 But if I am, then, even if you don’t trust me, trust the deeds; so that you may understand once and for all that the Father is united with me, and I am united with the Father.” 39 One more time they tried to arrest him, but he slipped out of their hands.
It is always best to start from where the text quotes from.
Psalm 82
Complete Jewish Bible
82 (0) A psalm of Asaf:
(1) Elohim [God] stands in the divine assembly;
there with the elohim [judges], he judges:
2 “How long will you go on judging unfairly,
favoring the wicked? (Selah)
3 Give justice to the weak and fatherless!
Uphold the rights of the wretched and poor!
4 Rescue the destitute and needy;
deliver them from the power of the wicked!”
5 They don’t know, they don’t understand,
they wander about in darkness;
meanwhile, all the foundations of the earth
are being undermined.
6 “My decree is: ‘You are elohim [gods, judges],
sons of the Most High all of you.
7 Nevertheless, you will die like mortals;
like any prince, you will fall.’”
8 Rise up, Elohim, and judge the earth;
for all the nations are yours.
From John 10, I think it was also humans:
inside the Temple area, in Shlomo’s Colonnade. 24 So the Judeans surrounded him and said to him, “How much longer are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us publicly!” 25 Yeshua answered them, “I have already told you, and you don’t trust me. The works I do in my Father’s name testify on my behalf, 26 but the reason you don’t trust is that you are not included among my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice, I recognize them, they follow me, 28 and I give them eternal life. They will absolutely never be destroyed, and no one will snatch them from my hands. 29 My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than all; and no one can snatch them from the Father’s hands. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Once again the Judeans picked up rocks in order to stone him. 32 Yeshua answered them, “You have seen me do many good deeds that reflect the Father’s power; for which one of these deeds are you stoning me?” 33 The Judeans replied, “We are not stoning you for any good deed, but for blasphemy — because you, who are only a man, are making yourself out to be God [a].” 34 Yeshua answered them, “Isn’t it written in your Torah, ‘I have said, “You people are Elohim’ ”?[b] 35 If he called ‘elohim’ the people to whom the word of Elohim was addressed (and the Tanakh cannot be broken), 36 then are you telling the one whom the Father set apart as holy and sent into the world, ‘You are committing blasphemy,’ just because I said, ‘I am a son of Elohim’?
37 “If I am not doing deeds that reflect my Father’s power, don’t trust me. 38 But if I am, then, even if you don’t trust me, trust the deeds; so that you may understand once and for all that the Father is united with me, and I am united with the Father.” 39 One more time they tried to arrest him, but he slipped out of their hands.
It is always best to start from where the text quotes from.
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A little background info:
Exodus 18:13-27
Easy-to-Read Version
13 The next day, Moses had the special job of judging the people. There were so many people that they had to stand before him all day.
14 Jethro saw Moses judging the people. He asked, “Why are you doing this? Why are you the only judge? And why do people come to you all day?”
15 Then Moses said to his father-in-law, “The people come to me and ask me to ask for God’s decision for their problem. 16 If people have an argument, they come to me, and I decide which person is right. In this way I teach the people God’s laws and teachings.”
17 But Moses’ father-in-law said to him, “This isn’t the right way to do this. 18 It is too much work for you to do alone. You cannot do this job by yourself. It wears you out. And it makes the people tired too. 19 Now, listen to me. Let me give you some advice. And I pray God will be with you. You should continue listening to the problems of the people. And you should continue to speak to God about these things. 20 You should explain God’s laws and teachings to the people. Warn them not to break the laws. Tell them the right way to live and what they should do. 21 But you should also choose some of the people to be judges and leaders.
“Choose good men you can trust—men who respect God. Choose men who will not change their decisions for money. Make these men rulers over the people. There should be rulers over 1000 people, 100 people, 50 people, and even over ten people. 22 Let these rulers judge the people. If there is a very important case, then they can come to you and let you decide what to do. But they can decide the other cases themselves. In this way these men will share your work with you, and it will be easier for you to lead the people. 23 If you do this as God directs you, then you will be able to do your job without tiring yourself out. And the people can still have all their problems solved before they return home.”
24 So Moses did what Jethro told him. 25 Moses chose good men from among the Israelites. He made them leaders over the people. There were rulers over 1000 people, 100 people, 50 people, and ten people. 26 These rulers were judges for the people. The people could always bring their arguments to these rulers, and Moses had to decide only the most important cases.
27 After a short time Moses said goodbye to his father-in-law Jethro, and Jethro went back to his own home.
Deuteronomy 1:9-18
Easy-to-Read Version
Moses Chooses Leaders
9 “At that time I told you, ‘I can’t take care of you by myself. 10 And now, there are even more of you. The Lord your God has added more and more people, so that today you are as many as the stars in the sky. 11 May the Lord, the God of your ancestors, give you 1000 times more people than you are now! May he bless you as he promised. 12 But I cannot take care of you and solve all your arguments by myself. 13 So choose some men from each tribe, and I will make them leaders over you. Choose wise men with experience who understand people.’
14 “And you said, ‘That is a good thing to do.’
15 “So I took the wise, experienced men you chose from your tribes, and I made them your leaders. In this way I gave you leaders over 1000 people, over 100 people, over 50 people, and over 10 people. I also gave you officers for each of your tribes.
16 “At that time I told these judges, ‘Listen to the arguments between your people. Be fair when you judge each case. It doesn’t matter if the problem is between two Israelites or between an Israelite and a foreigner. You must judge each case fairly. 17 You must treat everyone the same when you judge. You must listen carefully to everyone—whether they are important or not. Don’t be afraid of anyone, because your decision is from God. But if there is a case too hard for you to judge, bring it to me and I will judge it.’ 18 At that same time I also told you everything you must do.
Exodus 18:13-27
Easy-to-Read Version
13 The next day, Moses had the special job of judging the people. There were so many people that they had to stand before him all day.
14 Jethro saw Moses judging the people. He asked, “Why are you doing this? Why are you the only judge? And why do people come to you all day?”
15 Then Moses said to his father-in-law, “The people come to me and ask me to ask for God’s decision for their problem. 16 If people have an argument, they come to me, and I decide which person is right. In this way I teach the people God’s laws and teachings.”
17 But Moses’ father-in-law said to him, “This isn’t the right way to do this. 18 It is too much work for you to do alone. You cannot do this job by yourself. It wears you out. And it makes the people tired too. 19 Now, listen to me. Let me give you some advice. And I pray God will be with you. You should continue listening to the problems of the people. And you should continue to speak to God about these things. 20 You should explain God’s laws and teachings to the people. Warn them not to break the laws. Tell them the right way to live and what they should do. 21 But you should also choose some of the people to be judges and leaders.
“Choose good men you can trust—men who respect God. Choose men who will not change their decisions for money. Make these men rulers over the people. There should be rulers over 1000 people, 100 people, 50 people, and even over ten people. 22 Let these rulers judge the people. If there is a very important case, then they can come to you and let you decide what to do. But they can decide the other cases themselves. In this way these men will share your work with you, and it will be easier for you to lead the people. 23 If you do this as God directs you, then you will be able to do your job without tiring yourself out. And the people can still have all their problems solved before they return home.”
24 So Moses did what Jethro told him. 25 Moses chose good men from among the Israelites. He made them leaders over the people. There were rulers over 1000 people, 100 people, 50 people, and ten people. 26 These rulers were judges for the people. The people could always bring their arguments to these rulers, and Moses had to decide only the most important cases.
27 After a short time Moses said goodbye to his father-in-law Jethro, and Jethro went back to his own home.
Deuteronomy 1:9-18
Easy-to-Read Version
Moses Chooses Leaders
9 “At that time I told you, ‘I can’t take care of you by myself. 10 And now, there are even more of you. The Lord your God has added more and more people, so that today you are as many as the stars in the sky. 11 May the Lord, the God of your ancestors, give you 1000 times more people than you are now! May he bless you as he promised. 12 But I cannot take care of you and solve all your arguments by myself. 13 So choose some men from each tribe, and I will make them leaders over you. Choose wise men with experience who understand people.’
14 “And you said, ‘That is a good thing to do.’
15 “So I took the wise, experienced men you chose from your tribes, and I made them your leaders. In this way I gave you leaders over 1000 people, over 100 people, over 50 people, and over 10 people. I also gave you officers for each of your tribes.
16 “At that time I told these judges, ‘Listen to the arguments between your people. Be fair when you judge each case. It doesn’t matter if the problem is between two Israelites or between an Israelite and a foreigner. You must judge each case fairly. 17 You must treat everyone the same when you judge. You must listen carefully to everyone—whether they are important or not. Don’t be afraid of anyone, because your decision is from God. But if there is a case too hard for you to judge, bring it to me and I will judge it.’ 18 At that same time I also told you everything you must do.
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