Saved by faith alone?
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"their response was what is the proper response." And that response was to be baptized for the remission of sins (verse 38). So are we in agreement?
I'M FINE. it's sad that when those like you choose to mock and scoff and seek to debate, such things are salvation with those who also claim to be saved. I find that not ok. But it is ok, please ensure yourself.
Not the best move makes you less credible . Now as for "Here is your answer. As I have said many times before, there are no good works needed to be saved. " not one scripture to back that statement up and I'm not disagreeing you.
I believe I am saved and do not need any works yet I can say I am saved and from the start some part of me always wants to do good aka works. So as its written I have faith and works. Faith is believing John 3:16 some would call that a work also. The work which happens after is can be also called the fruit maybe. The more I look at it they go hand in hand aka "both"
Who repents and then never does good?Slave to righteousness....to be honest I don't know why that pops up Rom 6:15. Before found we were salves to sin and could not touch righteousness. Slaves to the one we obey. Who was he talking to? Yeah believers so saying whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Hello works
We agree that where faith has been demonstrated baptism should follow. We have very different understanding of the nature of salvation.
I'm curious why you didn't address the whole of what I wrote. I personally think it's clear from verse 37 that God is already at work in those who come to faith. That they heard is evidence that their minds have become engaged. That they were pricked is evidence that their hearts were engaged. That they were responding means their wills were engaged. What is the cause of these changes?
On the reason why I did not respond to the whole of what you wrote is because I agree with most of it. I do think that the following is a bit of a stretch.
"This is the circumcision of the heart pictured in physical circumcision. It is what Ezekiel 36:26 is describing in taking out the heart of stone and giving a heart of flesh."
But regardless of how much "their wills were engaged" the lack of the remission of sins is the road to damnation.
Again I appreciate the response and I have a few questions if you are so inclined to answer.
What is your understanding of their hearts being pricked? What is transpiring in a heart being pricked? And who is doing the pricking? And what is Ezekiel referring to by taking out the heart of stone and giving a heart of flesh?
And lastly, and I hope by asking so many questions I'm not presuming upon your time, do you believe salvation is a physical or spiritual transaction?
What is your understanding of their hearts being pricked? Express feelings of guilt. What do you think it means?
What is transpiring in a heart being pricked? Express feelings of guilt.
And who is doing the pricking? Their conscience. What do you think is causing it?
And what is Ezekiel referring to by taking out the heart of stone and giving a heart of flesh? This was one of the acts of God toward the people of Israel, to prick their conscience in order for them to see their own shame. (Ezekiel 36:32) What do you think it is referring to?
do you believe salvation is a physical or spiritual transaction? Salvation in our present place and time is metaphysical and as such can not be proven. It has both physical aspects (water baptism, confessing Jesus as Lord) as well as spiritual aspects (faith, repentance and grace).
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I should have asked the last question first. Salvation is primarily a spiritual endeavor. Those who are dead spiritually are made alive. The Bible describes this in a number of ways, each designed to give a fuller understanding of it. Such phrases as being rescued from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light, being born again or born from above, knowing the one true God and Jesus Christ. None of these descriptions have physical reality. We aren't literally taken from a place of darkness, experience a second birth, or come face to face with Jesus. So whatever these things are suggesting, it must be spiritual.
There is an important concept in Romans 1 that teaches us that the way God created the physical world was deliberate and that the invisible things of God can be understood by the things that are made...v. 19-20. Given this., we examine concepts like those mentioned above and understand them by making application to what we know about the physical nature. For example, light is associated with God and darkness with Satan. So someone who is translated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light would be rescued out of an evil dominion into a holy one.
It's important to note that none of the change is physical. That means a spiritual change has taken place. It will certainly produce changes in the physical world, but the initial and important change is inward. And this is what is necessary. That's why Jesus said it is not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out of him. Salvation changes an individual on the inside. And only God can change the inside. Hence, a new heart is necessary. And that's what the pricking of the heart is all about. God is figuratively describing the change He brings about that enables the Christian to be all that God calls him or her to be.
I didn't intend to write so much so thanks for your kind attendance.
and what happens then if man has true saving faith in Christ, is all lined up to get baptized tomorrow but dies of a heart attack preventing him from getting baptized. To stay intellectually honest you have to say this man goes to hell. Does that make sense to you?
Good point.... and it follows that, if hearing and believing were all there is to it, then Peter would have said "what should you do? Nothing! You're done! You have heard, and you have faith, that's all you need! "
What did Peter tell the crowd of new believers?
You seem to want to play "hypothetical" games.... you also still grant men authority that we don't have, and never will....
It is not our place to tell someone they are going to hell.... please, PLEASE get that out of your mind. We don't have that authority.
All we can do is give someone the word of God.... what happens in their life is between them and our loving God.
Telling someone they are going to hell has nothing to do with being intellectually honest....
I've heard all the hypotheticals.... what about the thief on the cross, what about the soldier in battle, what about the person driving on their way to be baptized and they have a wreck, what about an astronaut in space.... yada, yada, ad nauseum....
One more time.....THAT IS NOT OUR CALL TO MAKE. GOD MAKES THAT CALL. We don't have to worry that we are being "intellectually honest", because we do not know what will happen to that person.... but I DO know who DOES know, and I know that He loves us more than we are capable of loving ourselves.
So, how 'bout we stop with the silly games, bro? It's a waste of time...
In my post #410 I asked you to please provide scriptures regarding your position that the blood of Christ is applied to the soul and one's sins are forgiven upon repentance. I ask again, since I find that no where in scripture. However, the bible does say everyone is to repent, AND be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin. The referenced baptism is water baptism as revealed in Acts 10:47-48. And since scripture links remission of sin with those commands it is plausible that the blood of Christ is applied at that point.
Yes.... and even if we cannot pinpoint the exact moment that "being saved" happens, we CAN, and should, follow what all the scriptures say is a part of that process...
We have to hear the word, and we have to believe in Jesus, after hearing... we have to WANT to change (repent), and we have to have faith that God is true to His word, and He has provided the once and only sacrifice for our sins, and that He offers us the free, undeserved (grace) gift of salvation.... and we are to be baptized for the forgiveness/remission of our sins.... and in order to receive the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit in our lives.
So, we can say we are saved through faith, because it's part of it... we can say we're saved through believing... it's part of it. We can say we're saved by grace.. true. We can say we're saved through baptism because all of that is true. All of that is scriptural, and is part of our salvation.
Any ONE part of that is not what saves us.... it's ALL of it, through the sacrificial blood of our Lord and Savior, Jesus... thank you God!
Paul's words come to mind. There are stepS of faith revealed in the gospel message. One step of faith propels one to the next, and the next, and so on.
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Rom 1:16-17
Baptism is in the bible for a reason but you and others ignor and/or disregard it and claim it doesn't mean what it simply says. Tell the Lord it's meaningless.
Mark 16:15-16
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
The above is pretty simple znd clear in Jesus own words. Jesus appears to have been important to the Lord.
belief + baptism = salvation
Belief is inextricably linked to baptism, one being dependent upon the other tied together by a conjunction. It can't get any simpler or clearer than that!
"but he that believeth not shall be damned."
Exactly, ONLY unbelief results in damnation. NOT not being baptized.
Why not? I can make that call quite easily. Watch:
If a man does not accept Christ as his savior HE WILL GO TO HELL. I am 100% certain of that and will tell a man that.
Now that is intellectually honest. I stay one tracked minded with that.
Now will you do the same about not being baptized?