Is Physical Healing Provided In The Atonement?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
1,594
801
113
#41
Basic science.
If you prefer delusion to truth that is your perogative sadly it reflects poorly on the rest of us Christians who know the truth that healing is not part of the atonement
Translation: My belief/interpretation, or My denomination's belief/interpretation of the Bible, is that the ONLY HEALING in the atonement is "Spiritual healing", and the God Doesn't heal anybody who's physically sick (even though He did until until the Apostolic age ended).

That about cover it for you???
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,697
593
113
#42
Ok, your from canada. In germany we have apart from the rcc and the protastant church, so called free churches, because their members dont pay tax to the goverment as the rcc or protestant churchmembers do.
Appreciate your explaining this -----thanks ----:)


Now for your statement here ------my view on what you say here

Mennonites, Baptists ad other denominations are mainly teaching the word of God and that someone has to be born again to become a Christian.
I say
Well we are very much in disagreement here with your statement ---as anyone today can call them self a Christian and teach from the Word of God and not be Born Again -----and just because the pastor teaches the Word of God does not mean they are Born Again ------


All Religions are man made -----The Mennonites, Baptists ad other denominations were all started by man ---not God -----so each denomination makes up what their belief structure is and adds their own rules to the mix ----- which goes against God's word ------

For instance ---the Mennonites say that water Baptism is a sign of the forgiveness of sins ------this is a man made statement -----the question is do they preach that ------they say that they believe Jesus died for their sins but then they contradict that statement ----with the water Baptism statement ----

No where in Scripture does it say that Water Baptism is a Sign of the forgiveness of sins ------

if this is true then we don't need the shed Blood of Jesus to be the sign of the forgiveness of sins -------all we have to do is be dunked in water and arise free from sin ----which is ridiculous

Water Baptism is a sign of our Faith in what Jesus did on the Cross ---it cannot nor will it take away sin --

The only way to tell if the preacher is born again is to listen to what they preach and if it goes against the Scripture then they are not Born Again as the Holy Spirit will NEVER ---EVER ---direct a person to contradict the Word or preach twisting the Word to suit their man made agenda ------God doesn't contradict Himself ---if He did then he would be a liar -----and that is not what scripture says ----

Galatians 1:8 ESV
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

Hebrews 9:22
Amplified Bible
In fact under the Law almost everything is cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness [neither release from sin and its guilt, nor cancellation of the merited punishment

--many here believe that you need water baptism to be saved ----which is taking scripture and making it say something that it doesn't ------

This is from Got questions --

The fact that baptism is not required to receive forgiveness and the gift of the Holy Spirit should also be evident by simply reading a little farther in the book of Acts. In Acts 10:43,

Peter tells Cornelius that “through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins” (please note that nothing at this point has been mentioned about being baptized, yet Peter connects believing in Christ with the act of receiving forgiveness for sins).

The next thing that happens is, having believed Peter’s message about Christ, the “Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message” (Acts 10:44). It is only after they had believed, and therefore received forgiveness of their sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit, that Cornelius and his household were baptized (Acts 10:47-48).

The context and the passage are very clear;
Cornelius and his household received both forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit before they were ever baptized.


In fact, the reason Peter allowed them to be baptized was that they showed evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit “just as Peter and the Jewish believers” had.

I say ---so it is important in all countries to know your Scripture so you know if what your Pastor is preaching lines up with the Word or contradicts it ------
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
2,505
1,126
113
#43
"Every true Christian believes that spiritual healing, salvation of the soul from
sin, is to be found only in the death of Christ, but there is disagreement as to
whether His death is supposed to provide physical health also for the believer.
Some teach that Christ bore our sicknesses upon the Cross as well as our sins,
and that it is therefore as much the will of God that we be healed of sickness
as to be saved from sin.

Since salvation is received through faith, healing must come in the same
manner, and if one is not healed it proves he doesn’t have faith. If the
premise of this argument is true, i. e. that Christ died for our sickness and
that God is not willing that any should be sick, then the above conclusion
logically follows; but we ask: Is the premise true?

This teaching is based upon Matthew 8:17: “Himself took our infirmities, and
bare our sicknesses,” a quotation from Isaiah 53:4. But the all important thing
to see is that Jesus fulfilled this scripture three years before His death. He was
bearing their sicknesses all during His earthly ministry, but He never bore any
one’s sins until He died upon the tree. Since the Bible declares that He fulfilled
the work of bearing sicknesses before Has death, any teaching is proved false
which claims He fulfilled that work in His death.

The second important fact is found in the word “bare”. Peter tells us that Christ
“bare our sins in his own body on the tree.” This word is “anaphero” in the Greek,
and means to bring to the altar or to offer a sacrifice. It is used in Hebrews 9:28:

“Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many”;​

and most significantly the translators of the Septuagint chose this word in
Isaiah 53:12: “and he bare the sins of many.” But there is an entirely different
word used regarding the bearing of sickness in Matthew 8:17. It is “bastazo”
and means to lift or to carry or to endure. It is never used of bearing sins.
This is the same word John the Baptist used in Matthew 3:11: “whose shoes
I am not worthy to bear.”

Paul used it in Galatians 6:2: “bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the
law of Christ.” Paul asked Christians to do in Romans 15:1 exactly what Christ
did: “bear the infirmities (or sicknesses) of the weak,” but he never told any
Christian to bear the sins of another. And again, most significantly the
Septuagint uses this same word in Isaiah 53:4: “surely he hath borne our
griefs, and carried our sorrows.” Thus Christ bore sicknesses in an altogether
different sense from which He bore sins.

The third fact is based upon logic. If healing is in the atonement to the same
extent as salvation, then one possesses salvation to the extent he enjoys
physical health. But since all Christians in the past have died, and mostly
from disease, this would prove that all had lost salvation; for all surely
lost health.

Fourthly, Paul, the model Christian, gloried in his infirmities (II Corinthians 11:30;
II Corinthians 12:9 and 10—this word means sickness, the same word as used in
Matthew 8:17). If sickness is contrary to the will of God, then Paul gloried in being
out of the will of God, and it was the Grace of God which taught him to do it.

Fifthly, this teaching denies such Scriptures as Romans 8:23: “but ourselves also,
which have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves,
waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” Yes, praise God, our
salvation includes a body as perfect as Christ’s own glorious body, but none will
receive it until the resurrection for which we wait.

Lastly, let it be noticed that God promised health to Israel along with other
temporal blessings. He revealed Himself as Jehovah-Ropheca, the Lord that
healeth thee (Exodus 15:26). See also Deuteronomy 28:1 to 14. But not one
of these promises can be found directed to the Body of Christ, but often just
the opposite. God not only promised to heal but to make rich (Deuteronomy
28:11 and 12). Therefore if you are not rich it is just as much a sign of
unfaithfulness as if you are sick.

Surely we believe that God hears and answers prayer for the sick, but Plain
Scripture forbids us to believe that healing is in the atonement or that
sickness brands one as unfaithful or disobedient." (CF Baker)

Amen.
1st Peter 2:24- "by whose stripes "YE WERE HEALED". All Christians are healed. PAST TENSE. we have to claim our healing. by course, believe, trust, continue in faith & edify in your relationship with Jesus. God may hold back physical healing because of unrepentant sin, asking amiss, or it's just not time yet for healing. eventually, all Christians will be healed at the Rapture.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,697
593
113
#44
f you prefer delusion to truth that is your perogative sadly it reflects poorly on the rest of us Christians who know the truth that healing is not part of the atonement

Ask yourself a question ---if your sick----are you whole ---Salvation bring wholeness and wellness to your body mind and Spirit ------your showing your ignorance here as to what Jesus really accomplished on the Cross -----your either Saved or your not ---there is no half saved deal ------

this world whole---means ----
in an unbroken or undamaged state; in one piece
a thing that is complete in itself.

I say -----if your sick are you damaged in any way -----can you function properly ---can you do God's work if your sick and in bed ---can you help your neighbour if your home sick ------

the Greek word for salvation is --------and see what is included ----Health ---it doesn't specify only Spiritual health ----it says Healing for the body as well as your spirit ------

Jesus took 39 Stripes on His back and the blood that was shed from there He purchased our Healing back -----Isaiah 53 read the Suffering Servant ------so you either believe the scripture or you don't ---you can't pick and choose what Scripture you want to believe and throw the rest out -----as God says His Complete Word is TRUTH ----

Strong's #4991:
soteria (pronounced so-tay-ree'-ah)
feminine of a derivative of 4990 as (properly, abstract) noun; rescue or safety (physically or morally):--deliver, health, salvation, save, saving.

Salvation is a broader term in Greek than we often think of in English. Other concepts that are inherent in soteria include restoration to a state of safety, soundness, health and well being as well as preservation from danger of destruction.

sózó: to save--------Sozo is a Greek word meaning wholeness… • wholeness in spirit • wholeness in soul (mind, will, and emotions) • wholeness in body. It is complete healing for body, soul, and spirit.Sozo is a Greek word meaning wholeness… • wholeness in spirit • wholeness in soul (mind, will, and emotions) • wholeness in body. It is complete healing for body, soul, and spirit.

So anyone can argue this healing thing but you can't Change what is included in the package of Salvation ------as it says what it say ------all you can do is believe it and receive it ---or reject it ----

Jesus is our great Physician ------A RIPLEY"s Believe IT or NOT-----the scripture tells you how to obtain the Healing ------As pointed out ------WE ARE HEALED --Past Tense -----if you want to argue that --you need to talk to God about your unbelief ----cause Scripture is clear here -----


1690150484155.jpeg



Important Words here ------

1690151399802.jpeg
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,757
936
113
61
#45
Appreciate your explaining this -----thanks ----:)


Now for your statement here ------my view on what you say here



I say
Well we are very much in disagreement here with your statement ---as anyone today can call them self a Christian and teach from the Word of God and not be Born Again -----and just because the pastor teaches the Word of God does not mean they are Born Again ------


All Religions are man made -----The Mennonites, Baptists ad other denominations were all started by man ---not God -----so each denomination makes up what their belief structure is and adds their own rules to the mix ----- which goes against God's word ------

For instance ---the Mennonites say that water Baptism is a sign of the forgiveness of sins ------this is a man made statement -----the question is do they preach that ------they say that they believe Jesus died for their sins but then they contradict that statement ----with the water Baptism statement ----

No where in Scripture does it say that Water Baptism is a Sign of the forgiveness of sins ------

if this is true then we don't need the shed Blood of Jesus to be the sign of the forgiveness of sins -------all we have to do is be dunked in water and arise free from sin ----which is ridiculous

Water Baptism is a sign of our Faith in what Jesus did on the Cross ---it cannot nor will it take away sin --

The only way to tell if the preacher is born again is to listen to what they preach and if it goes against the Scripture then they are not Born Again as the Holy Spirit will NEVER ---EVER ---direct a person to contradict the Word or preach twisting the Word to suit their man made agenda ------God doesn't contradict Himself ---if He did then he would be a liar -----and that is not what scripture says ----

Galatians 1:8 ESV
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

Hebrews 9:22
Amplified Bible
In fact under the Law almost everything is cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness [neither release from sin and its guilt, nor cancellation of the merited punishment

--many here believe that you need water baptism to be saved ----which is taking scripture and making it say something that it doesn't ------

This is from Got questions --

The fact that baptism is not required to receive forgiveness and the gift of the Holy Spirit should also be evident by simply reading a little farther in the book of Acts. In Acts 10:43,

Peter tells Cornelius that “through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins” (please note that nothing at this point has been mentioned about being baptized, yet Peter connects believing in Christ with the act of receiving forgiveness for sins).

The next thing that happens is, having believed Peter’s message about Christ, the “Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message” (Acts 10:44). It is only after they had believed, and therefore received forgiveness of their sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit, that Cornelius and his household were baptized (Acts 10:47-48).

The context and the passage are very clear;
Cornelius and his household received both forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit before they were ever baptized.


In fact, the reason Peter allowed them to be baptized was that they showed evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit “just as Peter and the Jewish believers” had.

I say ---so it is important in all countries to know your Scripture so you know if what your Pastor is preaching lines up with the Word or contradicts it ------
Well, i " became" a Christian in a youth Meeting from a brethren church. And attend later by searching a church an mennonite bretheren church ( which startet as an revival movement out of mennonites in russia)
Yes, you are right all denominations are made from man. This why my meaning is no denomination is 100% right in their teachings. Many mennonite churches in germany are liberal. While menonite churches from russia ( russiagermans) are by law in a negative sense. ( f.e. as woman you have to wear a dress, otherwise you are not a christian).
As I agree with you, that like the beraens, every believer has to proof what is preached from the pulpit wether it is according to the scripture of not.
Thats why I said it depend on the denomination. But today it is realy difficult to find an church which lines up with the bible. And even among denominatians you can find different teachings.
In germany your chance to find in an free church an biblical teachig is multiple higher then in the the the protestant church.
Btw, I agree with you according water baptism.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,757
936
113
61
#46
Ask yourself a question ---if your sick----are you whole ---Salvation bring wholeness and wellness to your body mind and Spirit ------your showing your ignorance here as to what Jesus really accomplished on the Cross -----your either Saved or your not ---there is no half saved deal ------

this world whole---means ----
in an unbroken or undamaged state; in one piece
a thing that is complete in itself.

I say -----if your sick are you damaged in any way -----can you function properly ---can you do God's work if your sick and in bed ---can you help your neighbour if your home sick ------

the Greek word for salvation is --------and see what is included ----Health ---it doesn't specify only Spiritual health ----it says Healing for the body as well as your spirit ------

Jesus took 39 Stripes on His back and the blood that was shed from there He purchased our Healing back -----Isaiah 53 read the Suffering Servant ------so you either believe the scripture or you don't ---you can't pick and choose what Scripture you want to believe and throw the rest out -----as God says His Complete Word is TRUTH ----

Strong's #4991:
soteria (pronounced so-tay-ree'-ah)
feminine of a derivative of 4990 as (properly, abstract) noun; rescue or safety (physically or morally):--deliver, health, salvation, save, saving.

Salvation is a broader term in Greek than we often think of in English. Other concepts that are inherent in soteria include restoration to a state of safety, soundness, health and well being as well as preservation from danger of destruction.

sózó: to save--------Sozo is a Greek word meaning wholeness… • wholeness in spirit • wholeness in soul (mind, will, and emotions) • wholeness in body. It is complete healing for body, soul, and spirit.Sozo is a Greek word meaning wholeness… • wholeness in spirit • wholeness in soul (mind, will, and emotions) • wholeness in body. It is complete healing for body, soul, and spirit.

So anyone can argue this healing thing but you can't Change what is included in the package of Salvation ------as it says what it say ------all you can do is believe it and receive it ---or reject it ----

Jesus is our great Physician ------A RIPLEY"s Believe IT or NOT-----the scripture tells you how to obtain the Healing ------As pointed out ------WE ARE HEALED --Past Tense -----if you want to argue that --you need to talk to God about your unbelief ----cause Scripture is clear here -----


View attachment 253932



Important Words here ------

View attachment 253937
But still there is no gurantee given, that Christians become not sick while living on earth. Even Paul found his co- workers sick. And he blames them not to have not enough faith or gave then Jesaja 53, 3 to read.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,470
689
113
#47
His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.

It’s unfortunate that some people view sinless perfectionism as a standard for real Christians.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,697
593
113
#48
And he blames them not to have not enough faith
Your Faith is never enough -----as you cannot Heal yourself by your faith------only Jesus can Heal you ------your Faith is in Jesus who has the power --the ability to heal you ------Healing is a sore spot for many people ---it takes Faith in Jesus that is grounded and rooted and steadfast so that nothing can move you from getting that healing -----like Salvation ---Healing is made available to all True Christians by God's Grace --Steadfast unwavering Faith in Jesus to heal you Receives that Healing ----Faith always receives what Grace who is Jesus-- has made available ------Faith requires action ------Speaking your Faith out is your action -----

To receive your Salvation ----scripture says ----say with your mouth ----Jesus is Lord--- etc ---by doing this your putting your faith into action ------you will speak out what you have confidence in ------the First command has to be adhered to ---- Love God with all your heart --soul --mind and strength ----we say we love God but we really don't love Him will all our heart --soul mind and strength -----we have wives --children etc who we have to love and give time to ----so to say we really Agape God with all our--Heart - Mind -Soul and strength we are just kidding ourselves ------

Also you have to speak healing and not sickness -----if you start sneezing and you say ---OH I am getting a cold ----you have just spoke out your faith in the negative -----you want healing but you speak out sickness ------If you really study healing --you will find out that YOUR WORDS are very powerful and will produce what you say -----

Words are things -----Davar---God spoke out His faith words and He created what he said ---we are made in God's image -----in the NEW TESTAMENT ---the word is Rhema Word is the Spoken Word -----

https://www.thejc.com/judaism/jewish-words/davar-1.5953

Davar means "word," and it also means "thing." This fact reflects a deep facet of a Jewish world view.

Words are the creative energy of the world. God spoke, and through words brought the universe into being.
The kabbalists tell us that reality itself is forged from combinations of the 22 Hebrew letters. There is a mystical correspondence between a word and what it refers to.
We, too, create our world and the things of our lives through words.

Fear also plays a part in sickness --Fear tolerated is faith Contaminated ---

Holding grudges toward others ---unforgiveness plays a part in not being healed -----unbelief in God's Healing plays a part the stresses of this life -----also contribute -----all these things attack True Christians as well as unbelievers ------

Scripture gives you all that you need to work on to get your healing ----

Then there is this -------God heals on His time NOT our time ----so ---many if they don't get healing right away will cave in and quit the process cause they think that God doesn't want them healed ---or healing doesn't work -----so that don't get their healing -----

I haven't been to a Doctor in about 15 years ---no sickness --no diseases ----I use to get bronchitis every winter and very bad migraine headaches ---colds etc -----and decided I didn't need to be sick so i started the process and it took me 2 years to master what I needed to do and I haven't been sick since -----it is so freeing to be able to look after a lady who God directed me to and never had to take time away because of being sick -----

It takes much research and work to get healed -----you need to grow your Faith in Jesus and be like the woman with the Blood disease who had that unwavering Faith to get to Jesus who she trusted to heal her --just by touching His garment -----and all the others who never gave up on their Faith in Jesus to heal them or their loved ones pushing through crowds of people to get to Him no matter what others were shouting -----unwavering Faith in their Great Physician to get healed -----

it takes steadfast work ----to stay the course -----so getting healed is a process and you need the stamina to stay the course and wait on God's time -----He knows the best time to heal you we don't ----


One big thing that God says is this ------no wavering ---on this ---

Mark 11:24

Amplified Bible
For this reason I am telling you, whatever things you ask for in prayer [in accordance with God’s will], believe [with confident trust] that you have received them, and they will be given to you.

It says ---they WILL BE GIVEN TO YOU------this is a Promise ---and Healing is God's will for His Children
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,197
1,601
113
Midwest
#49
Scripture gives you all that you need to work on to get your healing
Yes, of course, if we ignore the Scriptures like these, for us, Today, Under Grace!:

(1) In That GRACE, God, In HIS Omniscience, Had Already
Chosen HIS Own In CHRIST, And Already Knew What
"infirmities, trouble, trials, afflictions, sufferings, And
persecutions we would go through,” And, Thank HIM, HE
"Promised" HE Will Never Give us more testing than
we can handle. (
Ephesians_1:4; 1_Corinthians_10:13)

(2) Under Grace, we are to:

Thank God IN {easy}, And, Also, FOR {Difficult?}, ALL things!
(
1_Thessalonians_5:18; Ephesians_5:20)


(3) After Paul (our "pattern" for Today! Phil 4:9), prayed 3 times
for his affliction, the "Answer he Received," According To The
Scriptures, Was:


"And HE {CHRIST} Said Unto me, MY GRACE Is Sufficient For
thee: For MY Strength Is Made Perfect in weakness. Most gladly
therefore will I rather glory {cp} in my infirmities, that The
Power Of CHRIST May Rest Upon me!"
(
2_Corinthians_12:9) {cp 2_Corinthians_11:23-30)

(4) "For our light affliction, which Is But For A Moment, worketh
for us a Far More Exceeding And Eternal weight of glory;
While
we look Not at the things which are seen, but at the things
Which Are Not Seen:
for the things which are seen [are]
temporal; but the things Which Are Not Seen Are Eternal!"
(
2_Corinthians_4:17-18)

I could keep going, but, they are all here: GRACE Word For our infirmities!

God's Will, For us, today, Under Grace!

Amen.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#50
The word of God clearly states that with faith anything is possible with God that includes physical healing. He didn't say however when or how he would do it more often than not he is not one for instant works sometimes yes he does a sudden healing or miracle but more often than not our sickness is meant to be a blessing there are many lessons to be learned from it and it humbles us as well it reminds us of our need for him

To ask in faith is not to ask and wait to recieve you ask and then assume it is already set in stone you don't know when but you trust him in his promises. but also it is vital more than anything to walk in obedience this means we keep working with diligence seeking the kingdom first and all other things will be added unto us many ask but are not willing to walk in this obedience

He is not a wishmaker he has always valued hard work and he doesn't do free labor the more you get the work for him the more he gives you in all things be that truth revelation wisdom insight love healing all good things are given to those he can rely on to be good stewards for his kingdom.

Faith is a verb an action not a currency , ask for healing believe it is so and and ask not merely for yourself but that he would be proven to be our provider that he would be glorified in doing so not simply so we can be healed.
The body requires healing as most people nowadays have illness and sickness from generations of lets say sketchy origins but he decides when and how not us we ask for it we don't decide how we recieve it.

Anyone though who refutes healing does not believe in him anyone who denies his power does not know what faith is.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,757
936
113
61
#51
Your Faith is never enough -----as you cannot Heal yourself by your faith------only Jesus can Heal you ------your Faith is in Jesus who has the power --the ability to heal you ------Healing is a sore spot for many people ---it takes Faith in Jesus that is grounded and rooted and steadfast so that nothing can move you from getting that healing -----like Salvation ---Healing is made available to all True Christians by God's Grace --Steadfast unwavering Faith in Jesus to heal you Receives that Healing ----Faith always receives what Grace who is Jesus-- has made available ------Faith requires action ------Speaking your Faith out is your action -----

To receive your Salvation ----scripture says ----say with your mouth ----Jesus is Lord--- etc ---by doing this your putting your faith into action ------you will speak out what you have confidence in ------the First command has to be adhered to ---- Love God with all your heart --soul --mind and strength ----we say we love God but we really don't love Him will all our heart --soul mind and strength -----we have wives --children etc who we have to love and give time to ----so to say we really Agape God with all our--Heart - Mind -Soul and strength we are just kidding ourselves ------

Also you have to speak healing and not sickness -----if you start sneezing and you say ---OH I am getting a cold ----you have just spoke out your faith in the negative -----you want healing but you speak out sickness ------If you really study healing --you will find out that YOUR WORDS are very powerful and will produce what you say -----

Words are things -----Davar---God spoke out His faith words and He created what he said ---we are made in God's image -----in the NEW TESTAMENT ---the word is Rhema Word is the Spoken Word -----

https://www.thejc.com/judaism/jewish-words/davar-1.5953

Davar means "word," and it also means "thing." This fact reflects a deep facet of a Jewish world view.

Words are the creative energy of the world. God spoke, and through words brought the universe into being.
The kabbalists tell us that reality itself is forged from combinations of the 22 Hebrew letters. There is a mystical correspondence between a word and what it refers to.
We, too, create our world and the things of our lives through words.

Fear also plays a part in sickness --Fear tolerated is faith Contaminated ---

Holding grudges toward others ---unforgiveness plays a part in not being healed -----unbelief in God's Healing plays a part the stresses of this life -----also contribute -----all these things attack True Christians as well as unbelievers ------

Scripture gives you all that you need to work on to get your healing ----

Then there is this -------God heals on His time NOT our time ----so ---many if they don't get healing right away will cave in and quit the process cause they think that God doesn't want them healed ---or healing doesn't work -----so that don't get their healing -----

I haven't been to a Doctor in about 15 years ---no sickness --no diseases ----I use to get bronchitis every winter and very bad migraine headaches ---colds etc -----and decided I didn't need to be sick so i started the process and it took me 2 years to master what I needed to do and I haven't been sick since -----it is so freeing to be able to look after a lady who God directed me to and never had to take time away because of being sick -----

It takes much research and work to get healed -----you need to grow your Faith in Jesus and be like the woman with the Blood disease who had that unwavering Faith to get to Jesus who she trusted to heal her --just by touching His garment -----and all the others who never gave up on their Faith in Jesus to heal them or their loved ones pushing through crowds of people to get to Him no matter what others were shouting -----unwavering Faith in their Great Physician to get healed -----

it takes steadfast work ----to stay the course -----so getting healed is a process and you need the stamina to stay the course and wait on God's time -----He knows the best time to heal you we don't ----


One big thing that God says is this ------no wavering ---on this ---

Mark 11:24

Amplified Bible
For this reason I am telling you, whatever things you ask for in prayer [in accordance with God’s will], believe [with confident trust] that you have received them, and they will be given to you.

It says ---they WILL BE GIVEN TO YOU------this is a Promise ---and Healing is God's will for His Children
What you wrote is irritates me.
In one Hand you say:" your faith is never enough- as you can ot heal yourself by your faith.- It is Jesus who heals you."

On the other hand you say:" .. you need to work on to get your healing. It takes much research and work to get healed. You need to grow your faith.

And then we should play God? By speakig out the word and create that what we want?
" we too create the world and all things of Live through our words"
And uesing the believesystem of the kabalists as example?

Finaly it is gods time when will be healed.

You are mixing right and wrong statements together and it sounds biblical. But it is not!!

Nowhere in the bible it is taught like that!

Be glad about your healed bronchitis and headache. You need 2 years. A brother or sister with cancer may not have this time!
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,235
3,575
113
#52
"For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ." Jude 1:4

False teachers always turn the grace of the Lord into something it's not: Health, wealth, worldly power, you name it. Anything but what it actually is: salvation from sin.
 
Jan 15, 2023
84
61
18
#53
"You have not because you ask not, you ask and receive not because you ask amiss",
that is truth from the Lord Himself, and RA disputes it?
How much faith did Lazarus have? He was deceased when the Savior raised him.:unsure::)(y)
Have you seen Lazarus lately?
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,697
593
113
#54
What you wrote is irritates me
LOL ----Not surprised ----- many get irritated as to how much work it takes bring God's promises to manifest in this physical realm -----most just want what they want right away and cave in and quit the process when they don't see results right away ----God works on His time not our time -----Healing is a promise and God honors His promises but it comes with waiting on God -----

The Scriptures tell you what you need to do to get healing ---you just have to research and obey the Word -----the Word works -----

Proverbs 18:21----Your WORDS Matter ------speaking that your sick when you want healing is contaminating your Faith in Jesus to Heal you ----if people would get this their life would be much better -----positive speaking brings positive results ----

Amplified Bible
Death and life are in the power of the tongue, And those who love it and indulge it will eat its fruit and bear the consequences of their words.

WORDS have great Power---- People ----
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,235
3,575
113
#56
This is ridiculous nonsense. Bosworth taught the underlying cause of sickness was spiritual. Remove the spiritual sickness and physical sickness goes too. According to this idea, every single person on the planet who suffers from sickness has some spiritual sickness that hasn't been dealt with; even believers. Faith healers have to teach this so no will notice they really don't have the power to heal. It's the responsibility of the person asking to be healed. No healing? Must be no faith or some spiritual reason.
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
1,178
573
113
#57
This is ridiculous nonsense. Bosworth taught the underlying cause of sickness was spiritual. Remove the spiritual sickness and physical sickness goes too. According to this idea, every single person on the planet who suffers from sickness has some spiritual sickness that hasn't been dealt with; even believers. Faith healers have to teach this so no will notice they really don't have the power to heal. It's the responsibility of the person asking to be healed. No healing? Must be no faith or some spiritual reason.
There is no mention of anything you just said in what I provided. Instead, there are Biblical references galore which plainly show that physical healing was provided for us in Christ's atonement. In fact, everything that God has graciously provided for us comes by means of Christ's atonement, and, again, that includes physical healing. If you want to deny aspects of Christ's atonement, then you are the nonsensical one, and Christ himself will bear witness of the same on the day of judgment. I would straighten out my theology before that day comes if I were you.

Anyway, I am not going to waste my time arguing with you or anybody else on this topic. I posted the video so that those who are seeking the truth would have something to help point them in that direction as opposed to the atonement-denying drivel in the OP.

Oh, btw, I have walked in Divine health for longer than some people on this forum have even been alive, and I have Christ's atonement, and my understanding of what was provided for me there, to thank for that.

EDIT:

I know that there are also charlatans galore out there, but we must never throw out the proverbial baby with the bath water.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,749
7,751
113
#59
Seeking- Thank you for sharing the FF Bosworth teaching.
RA claims to be Christian, yet any "fruit" from him is FAR from the vital, personal, relationship of a true believer.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,697
593
113
#60
Another thing I did was to get healing scriptures and posted them by my treadmill and every day while working out I repeated the scriptures out loud declaring my Faith in God's word to do as it says ----

--speaking out God's will for us is a plus ----what is in your heart the mouth will speak -----your heart and mouth are connected ------if in your heart you don't believe in healing ----then that is what you will speak out -----unbelief -----



I found this and it is worth the read ------for those who do believe in physical healing -----this person says it well -----

https://www.jessicahottle.com/10-healing-scriptures/