Is Physical Healing Provided In The Atonement?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,242
1,641
113
Midwest
#1
"Every true Christian believes that spiritual healing, salvation of the soul from
sin, is to be found only in the death of Christ, but there is disagreement as to
whether His death is supposed to provide physical health also for the believer.
Some teach that Christ bore our sicknesses upon the Cross as well as our sins,
and that it is therefore as much the will of God that we be healed of sickness
as to be saved from sin.

Since salvation is received through faith, healing must come in the same
manner, and if one is not healed it proves he doesn’t have faith. If the
premise of this argument is true, i. e. that Christ died for our sickness and
that God is not willing that any should be sick, then the above conclusion
logically follows; but we ask: Is the premise true?

This teaching is based upon Matthew 8:17: “Himself took our infirmities, and
bare our sicknesses,” a quotation from Isaiah 53:4. But the all important thing
to see is that Jesus fulfilled this scripture three years before His death. He was
bearing their sicknesses all during His earthly ministry, but He never bore any
one’s sins until He died upon the tree. Since the Bible declares that He fulfilled
the work of bearing sicknesses before Has death, any teaching is proved false
which claims He fulfilled that work in His death.

The second important fact is found in the word “bare”. Peter tells us that Christ
“bare our sins in his own body on the tree.” This word is “anaphero” in the Greek,
and means to bring to the altar or to offer a sacrifice. It is used in Hebrews 9:28:

“Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many”;​

and most significantly the translators of the Septuagint chose this word in
Isaiah 53:12: “and he bare the sins of many.” But there is an entirely different
word used regarding the bearing of sickness in Matthew 8:17. It is “bastazo”
and means to lift or to carry or to endure. It is never used of bearing sins.
This is the same word John the Baptist used in Matthew 3:11: “whose shoes
I am not worthy to bear.”

Paul used it in Galatians 6:2: “bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the
law of Christ.” Paul asked Christians to do in Romans 15:1 exactly what Christ
did: “bear the infirmities (or sicknesses) of the weak,” but he never told any
Christian to bear the sins of another. And again, most significantly the
Septuagint uses this same word in Isaiah 53:4: “surely he hath borne our
griefs, and carried our sorrows.” Thus Christ bore sicknesses in an altogether
different sense from which He bore sins.

The third fact is based upon logic. If healing is in the atonement to the same
extent as salvation, then one possesses salvation to the extent he enjoys
physical health. But since all Christians in the past have died, and mostly
from disease, this would prove that all had lost salvation; for all surely
lost health.

Fourthly, Paul, the model Christian, gloried in his infirmities (II Corinthians 11:30;
II Corinthians 12:9 and 10—this word means sickness, the same word as used in
Matthew 8:17). If sickness is contrary to the will of God, then Paul gloried in being
out of the will of God, and it was the Grace of God which taught him to do it.

Fifthly, this teaching denies such Scriptures as Romans 8:23: “but ourselves also,
which have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves,
waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” Yes, praise God, our
salvation includes a body as perfect as Christ’s own glorious body, but none will
receive it until the resurrection for which we wait.

Lastly, let it be noticed that God promised health to Israel along with other
temporal blessings. He revealed Himself as Jehovah-Ropheca, the Lord that
healeth thee (Exodus 15:26). See also Deuteronomy 28:1 to 14. But not one
of these promises can be found directed to the Body of Christ, but often just
the opposite. God not only promised to heal but to make rich (Deuteronomy
28:11 and 12). Therefore if you are not rich it is just as much a sign of
unfaithfulness as if you are sick.

Surely we believe that God hears and answers prayer for the sick, but Plain
Scripture forbids us to believe that healing is in the atonement or that
sickness brands one as unfaithful or disobedient." (CF Baker)

Amen.
 

Aussie52

Active member
Aug 31, 2022
161
150
43
#2
Good post! The idea of healing in the atonement is not only unscriptural, but it produces major pastoral problems among sick christians who live with condemnation because of it.
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
1,618
810
113
#3
"Every true Christian believes that spiritual healing, salvation of the soul from
sin, is to be found only in the death of Christ, but there is disagreement as to
whether His death is supposed to provide physical health also for the believer.
Some teach that Christ bore our sicknesses upon the Cross as well as our sins,
and that it is therefore as much the will of God that we be healed of sickness
as to be saved from sin.

Since salvation is received through faith, healing must come in the same
manner, and if one is not healed it proves he doesn’t have faith. If the
premise of this argument is true, i. e. that Christ died for our sickness and
that God is not willing that any should be sick, then the above conclusion
logically follows; but we ask: Is the premise true?

This teaching is based upon Matthew 8:17: “Himself took our infirmities, and
bare our sicknesses,” a quotation from Isaiah 53:4. But the all important thing
to see is that Jesus fulfilled this scripture three years before His death. He was
bearing their sicknesses all during His earthly ministry, but He never bore any
one’s sins until He died upon the tree. Since the Bible declares that He fulfilled
the work of bearing sicknesses before Has death, any teaching is proved false
which claims He fulfilled that work in His death.

The second important fact is found in the word “bare”. Peter tells us that Christ
“bare our sins in his own body on the tree.” This word is “anaphero” in the Greek,
and means to bring to the altar or to offer a sacrifice. It is used in Hebrews 9:28:

“Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many”;​

and most significantly the translators of the Septuagint chose this word in
Isaiah 53:12: “and he bare the sins of many.” But there is an entirely different
word used regarding the bearing of sickness in Matthew 8:17. It is “bastazo”
and means to lift or to carry or to endure. It is never used of bearing sins.
This is the same word John the Baptist used in Matthew 3:11: “whose shoes
I am not worthy to bear.”

Paul used it in Galatians 6:2: “bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the
law of Christ.” Paul asked Christians to do in Romans 15:1 exactly what Christ
did: “bear the infirmities (or sicknesses) of the weak,” but he never told any
Christian to bear the sins of another. And again, most significantly the
Septuagint uses this same word in Isaiah 53:4: “surely he hath borne our
griefs, and carried our sorrows.” Thus Christ bore sicknesses in an altogether
different sense from which He bore sins.

The third fact is based upon logic. If healing is in the atonement to the same
extent as salvation, then one possesses salvation to the extent he enjoys
physical health. But since all Christians in the past have died, and mostly
from disease, this would prove that all had lost salvation; for all surely
lost health.

Fourthly, Paul, the model Christian, gloried in his infirmities (II Corinthians 11:30;
II Corinthians 12:9 and 10—this word means sickness, the same word as used in
Matthew 8:17). If sickness is contrary to the will of God, then Paul gloried in being
out of the will of God, and it was the Grace of God which taught him to do it.

Fifthly, this teaching denies such Scriptures as Romans 8:23: “but ourselves also,
which have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves,
waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” Yes, praise God, our
salvation includes a body as perfect as Christ’s own glorious body, but none will
receive it until the resurrection for which we wait.

Lastly, let it be noticed that God promised health to Israel along with other
temporal blessings. He revealed Himself as Jehovah-Ropheca, the Lord that
healeth thee (Exodus 15:26). See also Deuteronomy 28:1 to 14. But not one
of these promises can be found directed to the Body of Christ, but often just
the opposite. God not only promised to heal but to make rich (Deuteronomy
28:11 and 12). Therefore if you are not rich it is just as much a sign of
unfaithfulness as if you are sick.

Surely we believe that God hears and answers prayer for the sick, but Plain
Scripture forbids us to believe that healing is in the atonement or that
sickness brands one as unfaithful or disobedient." (CF Baker)

Amen.
Well THAT was a lot of work for nothing!!! What are you gonna do with Isa 53:4 Check out "Greifs", and "Sorrows" in the Greek.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,747
609
113
#4
Since salvation is received through faith, healing must come in the same
manner, and if one is not healed it proves he doesn’t have faith.
What do you mean by this statement ?????????------the scripture says all you need is mustard seed faith -small faith here -------so how much faith is needed to be healed ????????????
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,747
609
113
#5
But since all Christians in the past have died, and mostly
from disease, this would prove that all had lost salvation; for all surely
lost health.

I think you are way off base with this statement -------just my view -----

Do you think that true Christians still have times of feeling stressed --anxious ---fearfulness ---living in this world -----

DIS ____EASE in the Body Causes Disease ------------true Christians ----still live in this world where the cares of this world can play a part in their health -------as well as Mr Satan who has access to our thoughts ------

This scripture below ----tells you that you have to keep at all times that perfect peace in your Heart and MIND ____Satan and the cares of this world has access to our thought life -----NOT ONE of Us will ever Mature far enough to have that perfect peace all the time living in this world ------sickness and disease live in this world ------ans so do we ------

Peace in your body ---Mind and Spirit brings Health ------

Philippians 4 Amp B

4 Rejoice in the Lord always [delight, take pleasure in Him]; again I will say, rejoice! 5 Let your gentle spirit [your graciousness, unselfishness, mercy, tolerance, and patience] be known to all people. The Lord is near.

6 Do not be anxious or worried about anything, but in everything [every circumstance and situation] by prayer and petition with thanksgiving, continue to make your [specific] requests known to God.

7 And the peace of God [that peace which reassures the heart, that peace] which transcends all understanding, [that peace which] stands guard over your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus [is yours].
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#6
What do you mean by this statement ?????????------the scripture says all you need is mustard seed faith -small faith here -------so how much faith is needed to be healed ????????????
He was clear. Read the entire post with each sentence in context.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#7
However; James chapter 5, Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,432
3,682
113
#8
"Every true Christian believes that spiritual healing, salvation of the soul from
sin, is to be found only in the death of Christ, but there is disagreement as to
whether His death is supposed to provide physical health also for the believer.
Some teach that Christ bore our sicknesses upon the Cross as well as our sins,
and that it is therefore as much the will of God that we be healed of sickness
as to be saved from sin.

Since salvation is received through faith, healing must come in the same
manner, and if one is not healed it proves he doesn’t have faith. If the
premise of this argument is true, i. e. that Christ died for our sickness and
that God is not willing that any should be sick, then the above conclusion
logically follows; but we ask: Is the premise true?

This teaching is based upon Matthew 8:17: “Himself took our infirmities, and
bare our sicknesses,” a quotation from Isaiah 53:4. But the all important thing
to see is that Jesus fulfilled this scripture three years before His death. He was
bearing their sicknesses all during His earthly ministry, but He never bore any
one’s sins until He died upon the tree. Since the Bible declares that He fulfilled
the work of bearing sicknesses before Has death, any teaching is proved false
which claims He fulfilled that work in His death.

The second important fact is found in the word “bare”. Peter tells us that Christ
“bare our sins in his own body on the tree.” This word is “anaphero” in the Greek,
and means to bring to the altar or to offer a sacrifice. It is used in Hebrews 9:28:

“Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many”;​

and most significantly the translators of the Septuagint chose this word in
Isaiah 53:12: “and he bare the sins of many.” But there is an entirely different
word used regarding the bearing of sickness in Matthew 8:17. It is “bastazo”
and means to lift or to carry or to endure. It is never used of bearing sins.
This is the same word John the Baptist used in Matthew 3:11: “whose shoes
I am not worthy to bear.”

Paul used it in Galatians 6:2: “bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the
law of Christ.” Paul asked Christians to do in Romans 15:1 exactly what Christ
did: “bear the infirmities (or sicknesses) of the weak,” but he never told any
Christian to bear the sins of another. And again, most significantly the
Septuagint uses this same word in Isaiah 53:4: “surely he hath borne our
griefs, and carried our sorrows.” Thus Christ bore sicknesses in an altogether
different sense from which He bore sins.

The third fact is based upon logic. If healing is in the atonement to the same
extent as salvation, then one possesses salvation to the extent he enjoys
physical health. But since all Christians in the past have died, and mostly
from disease, this would prove that all had lost salvation; for all surely
lost health.

Fourthly, Paul, the model Christian, gloried in his infirmities (II Corinthians 11:30;
II Corinthians 12:9 and 10—this word means sickness, the same word as used in
Matthew 8:17). If sickness is contrary to the will of God, then Paul gloried in being
out of the will of God, and it was the Grace of God which taught him to do it.

Fifthly, this teaching denies such Scriptures as Romans 8:23: “but ourselves also,
which have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves,
waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” Yes, praise God, our
salvation includes a body as perfect as Christ’s own glorious body, but none will
receive it until the resurrection for which we wait.

Lastly, let it be noticed that God promised health to Israel along with other
temporal blessings. He revealed Himself as Jehovah-Ropheca, the Lord that
healeth thee (Exodus 15:26). See also Deuteronomy 28:1 to 14. But not one
of these promises can be found directed to the Body of Christ, but often just
the opposite. God not only promised to heal but to make rich (Deuteronomy
28:11 and 12). Therefore if you are not rich it is just as much a sign of
unfaithfulness as if you are sick.

Surely we believe that God hears and answers prayer for the sick, but Plain
Scripture forbids us to believe that healing is in the atonement or that
sickness brands one as unfaithful or disobedient." (CF Baker)

Amen.
Well, if healing is guaranteed in the atonement, then it must be God's will for every believer to always receive healing. Of course, this idea is always put forward by those claiming to have the power to heal; otherwise they'd soon be out of business. Not only is it unscriptural, but it has led to all kinds of abuses by unscrupulous conmen.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#9
Surely we believe that God hears and answers prayer for the sick, but Plain
Scripture forbids us to believe that healing is in the atonement or that
sickness brands one as unfaithful or disobedient." (CF Baker)

I think people have misunderstood your post.
I agree with the above.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,945
7,856
113
#10
"You have not because you ask not, you ask and receive not because you ask amiss",
that is truth from the Lord Himself, and RA disputes it?
How much faith did Lazarus have? He was deceased when the Savior raised him.:unsure::)(y)
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,945
7,856
113
#13
Do you think He gave you the gift of life so you could ask preposterous questions?:unsure::)
preposterous

prĭ-pŏs′tər-əs
adjective
  1. Contrary to nature, reason, or common sense; absurd. synonym: foolish.
  2. Having that first which ought to be last; inverted in order.
  3. Contrary to nature or reason; not adapted to the end; utterly and glaringly foolish; unreasonably absurd; perverted.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,747
609
113
#14
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.


And the prayer of Faith shall save the sick -----so what is the prayer of Faith in you view ?????????? ------that heals the sick ------
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,747
609
113
#15
Locoponydirtman ----you do realize that there is protocol for answered Prayer laid out in Scripture ------so to pray the prayer of faith you need to follow the Scripture to get your prayer heard in the first place -----so today the elders of the church are probably not even born again people ---so their prayer will not be heard by God --Most Ministers today are not born again ---so 99% of the elders are not born again either I would say ------
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,945
7,856
113
#16
That is what Jesus warned us of, that most would have an outward form of Godliness denying the power.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#17
Locoponydirtman ----you do realize that there is protocol for answered Prayer laid out in Scripture ------so to pray the prayer of faith you need to follow the Scripture to get your prayer heard in the first place -----so today the elders of the church are probably not even born again people ---so their prayer will not be heard by God --Most Ministers today are not born again ---so 99% of the elders are not born again either I would say ------
That wouldnt be a church. Therefore they wouldnt be pastors or elders.
And you didnt have enough patience to wait for me to answer your question. I have been at work all day and dont spend my day on the internet while im working.
But yes i do understand that prayer needs to be in accordance with scripture.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,778
943
113
62
#18
Well THAT was a lot of work for nothing!!! What are you gonna do with Isa 53:4 Check out "Greifs", and "Sorrows" in the Greek.
Well, the reality proofs, that physical healing is not meant in Jesajah 53:4 that he carryed them means not, that we are not going sick.
Otherwise, no Christian would be sick or handycapped. Right?
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,778
943
113
62
#20
Locoponydirtman ----you do realize that there is protocol for answered Prayer laid out in Scripture ------so to pray the prayer of faith you need to follow the Scripture to get your prayer heard in the first place -----so today the elders of the church are probably not even born again people ---so their prayer will not be heard by God --Most Ministers today are not born again ---so 99% of the elders are not born again either I would say ------
It depend on what church or denomination you are talking from.