A lesson on grief in Job

[MaryM]

Job Chapter 2, verse 13. King James Bible.

How many of us can do this, spend a week sitting silent with a bereaved one?
These days people talk too much.
I think a very depressed bereaved person needs quiet sympathetic company. Free to talk and be above all listened to.
Would you agree Job's friends did the right thing at this stage? What is your experience of comfort or attempts at comfort in your hardest times?
I know I found best the friends that didn't chatter on about anything and everything, unable to stand any silence. In fact silence can be very soothing indeed if also understanding is there. All too often such an ideal is only found in professional therapy from trained counsellors - trained to keep mouth shut.

 

[Magenta]

Psalm 141:3, Proverbs 21:23, Proverbs 12:13, Proverbs 13:3, Proverbs 18:21

 

[Eli1]

Job Chapter 2, verse 13. King James Bible.

How many of us can do this, spend a week sitting silent with a bereaved one?
These days people talk too much.
I think a very depressed bereaved person needs quiet sympathetic company. Free to talk and be above all listened to.
Would you agree Job's friends did the right thing at this stage? What is your experience of comfort or attempts at comfort in your hardest times?
I know I found best the friends that didn't chatter on about anything and everything, unable to stand any silence. In fact silence can be very soothing indeed if also understanding is there. All too often such an ideal is only found in professional therapy from trained counsellors - trained to keep mouth shut.

Sitting in silence is a practice that the ancient Israelites practiced and it's a practice done this day in many regions of the world especially around the Mediterranean region.
It's just a way of being there for the other person, just being there.

 

[MaryM]

In chapter 4, what is Eliphaz the Temanite saying? Please someone clarify. I gather from verses 1 to 21 that he thinks innocent people do not perish. But this makes no sense to me because I believe none are blameless. We are all sinners and so all are subject to fate.
This being before Jesus gave us a way out.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Would you agree Job's friends did the right thing at this stage?

"At this stage" would be correct. But later on they all ganged up on him and assumed that he must have sinned seriously to bring down all those calamities on himself. But God made the final judgment later on.

Yes, sometimes silence is all that can be and should be offered when someone is grieving.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

In chapter 4, what is Eliphaz the Temanite saying? Please someone clarify. I gather from verses 1 to 21 that he thinks innocent people do not perish. But this makes no sense to me because I believe none are blameless. We are all sinners and so all are subject to fate.
This being before Jesus gave us a way out.

this is another reason i think the Scholars have it truly wrong about when Job took place. I do not believe this is the Job most think.
WHY?
look at Eliphaz question in Verse 17:

“Can mortals be acquitted by God?
Can man be cleared by his Maker?

This is before Sacrifice for Sins took place, so Moses, hasn't even been on the Scene yet.

Eliphaz, does not know that God, His Maker, removes SIN, because we've probably haven't even reached Noah's day yet, when God began talking about the Sins of man.


Cain and Abel is our the first examples of offering offerings. this appears not to be SIN offering, it's like paying a tithes offering.


Job, is truly an excellent Book to puzzle solve

 

[Cameron143]

this is another reason i think the Scholars have it truly wrong about when Job took place. I do not believe this is the Job most think.
WHY?
look at Eliphaz question in Verse 17:

“Can mortals be acquitted by God?
Can man be cleared by his Maker?

This is before Sacrifice for Sins took place, so Moses, hasn't even been on the Scene yet.

Eliphaz, does not know that God, His Maker, removes SIN, because we've probably haven't even reached Noah's day yet, when God began talking about the Sins of man.


Cain and Abel is our the first examples of offering offerings. this appears not to be SIN offering, it's like paying a tithes offering.


Job, is truly an excellent Book to puzzle solve

Didn't Job make offerings for his children?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Didn't Job make offerings for his children?

When a round of feast days was over, Job would send word to them to sanctify themselves, and, rising early in the morning, he would make burnt offerings, one for each of them; for Job thought, “Perhaps my children have sinned and blasphemed God in their thoughts.” This is what Job always used to do.

this makes what Eliphaz asked now strange. why would he ask if God forgives sins then?

does this mean that Job was just that connected to God he made offerings for his Children?

he made them for his Children but not for him and his wife. i still believe this is before we see Moses and the LAW Offerings.

if the LAW was in effect, one would think Job would make offerings for himself and his wife....and....Eliphaz, would know that God forgave Sins.

Plus, a Priest, is required for Sacrifices but we don't see a Priest for Cain and Abel.

Job, has no Priest either, so he has to be around this time and just after where you can Sacrifice without a Priest.

 

[Cameron143]

When a round of feast days was over, Job would send word to them to sanctify themselves, and, rising early in the morning, he would make burnt offerings, one for each of them; for Job thought, “Perhaps my children have sinned and blasphemed God in their thoughts.” This is what Job always used to do.

this makes what Eliphaz asked now strange. why would he ask if God forgives sins then?

does this mean that Job was just that connected to God he made offerings for his Children?

he made them for his Children but not for him and his wife. i still believe this is before we see Moses and the LAW Offerings.

if the LAW was in effect, one would think Job would make offerings for himself and his wife....and....Eliphaz, would know that God forgave Sins.

Plus, a Priest, is required for Sacrifices but we don't see a Priest for Cain and Abel.

Job, has no Priest either, so he has to be around this time and just after where you can Sacrifice without a Priest.

One could argue that the Patriarch of a family was indeed a priest.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

One could argue that the Patriarch of a family was indeed a priest.

wouldn't that mean Adam should have offered Cain and Abel's Offerings?

 

[Cameron143]

wouldn't that mean Adam should have offered Cain and Abel's Offerings?

Perhaps he did. But it wouldn't mitigate an individual for their personal relationship with God.
As a father, I offer prayers for my kids. But ultimately, they will stand before the Judge on their own. If the Judge is also the Defense Attorney, they will be fine.

 

[MaryM]

Job Chapter 9 verses 33 - 35.
Is Job predicting Christ here?

 

[posthuman]

wouldn't that mean Adam should have offered Cain and Abel's Offerings?

maybe if they were making sin offerings, but there's no indication that's what they do.
they are most likely commemorating an event in Genesis 3, like the shedding of blood to make the garments for Adam & Eve. so that case is more like a presage to Passover - in which every family takes a lamb, patriarch or not, priest or not.

 

[posthuman]

Job Chapter 9 verses 33 - 35.
Is Job predicting Christ here?

yes, and does Elihu becomes like a type of Christ in 33:6-7?

God later says Job's 3 friends spoke wrong, and tells them to offer sacrifices for their mistakes ((42:7-8)), but says nothing about Elihu. he's mysterious!

 

[posthuman]

he made them for his Children but not for him and his wife. i still believe this is before we see Moses and the LAW Offerings.

if the LAW was in effect, one would think Job would make offerings for himself and his wife....and....Eliphaz, would know that God forgave Sins.

If this were in the time of the Law and Job were a Jew, it would have been contrary to it for Job to offer sacrifices on his own, away from the tabernacle or temple, and he would have had a Levite as a mediator.

but Job isn't a Jew. still he should have known of The God of Israel by that title, because he certainly knows God.

agree this is not after Moses, that seems certain

 

[MaryM]

yes, and does Elihu becomes like a type of Christ in 33:6-7?

God later says Job's 3 friends spoke wrong, and tells them to offer sacrifices for their mistakes ((42:7-8)), but says nothing about Elihu. he's mysterious!

yes, and does Elihu becomes like a type of Christ in 33:6-7?

God later says Job's 3 friends spoke wrong, and tells them to offer sacrifices for their mistakes ((42:7-8)), but says nothing about Elihu. he's mysterious!

A very interesting thought. I shall focus on it as I work through. Thankyou so much.