When Does A Christian Become Immortality/Born Again?

Walter · Jul 6, 2023

Thursday 7-6-23 5th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 17 5783, 16th. Summer Day

Hello, I have been thinking about the OP and the different posts, but have not received any revelation on what Jesus was talking about to Nicodemus. But I'm glad to have an understanding of these views on this thread and more on other site forums.

I was looking at: It is by scripture we as Christians are not Born Again until we are caught up to be with Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58

But here are some views from Bing:
In Christianity, being born again means having a spiritual renewal or change of heart by accepting Jesus as the Savior and Lord. It is not about physical birth or external requirements, but about receiving salvation and becoming part of God’s family1.

The phrase “born again” is frequently misinterpreted. Looking at its primary reference, we see that its meaning is not about physical birth, but about experiencing a spiritual renewal. It is an expression used by many Protestants to define the moment or process of fully accepting faith in Jesus Christ. It is an experience when the teachings of Christianity and Jesus become real, and the “born again” acquire a personal relationship with God2.

Also, we will be in prayer about this process.

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:3-8, Colossians 1:15-18, Romans 8:29, Revelation 1:5, 1 Corinthians 15:50, Galatians 4:26, 2 John 1, 2 John 13, Revelation 12:1-5, Hebrews 12:23, Malachi 3:1 - King James Version

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say...

www.biblegateway.com

Love, Walter And Debbie

Gideon300 · Jul 7, 2023

Walter said:

Thursday 7-6-23 5th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 17 5783, 16th. Summer Day

Hello, I have been thinking about the OP and the different posts, but have not received any revelation on what Jesus was talking about to Nicodemus. But I'm glad to have an understanding of these views on this thread and more on other site forums.

I was looking at: It is by scripture we as Christians are not Born Again until we are caught up to be with Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58

But here are some views from Bing:
In Christianity, being born again means having a spiritual renewal or change of heart by accepting Jesus as the Savior and Lord. It is not about physical birth or external requirements, but about receiving salvation and becoming part of God’s family1.

The phrase “born again” is frequently misinterpreted. Looking at its primary reference, we see that its meaning is not about physical birth, but about experiencing a spiritual renewal. It is an expression used by many Protestants to define the moment or process of fully accepting faith in Jesus Christ. It is an experience when the teachings of Christianity and Jesus become real, and the “born again” acquire a personal relationship with God2.

Also, we will be in prayer about this process.

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:3-8, Colossians 1:15-18, Romans 8:29, Revelation 1:5, 1 Corinthians 15:50, Galatians 4:26, 2 John 1, 2 John 13, Revelation 12:1-5, Hebrews 12:23, Malachi 3:1 - King James Version

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say...

www.biblegateway.com

Love, Walter And Debbie

Question: to be born again means to have eternal life. How can eternal life die?

duewell · Jul 7, 2023

Gideon300 said:

oh i've been all over this one for a few years now. sadly the truth is even when we become born again we still die to sin. mainly because people do not understand how firmly this world is under the influence of the fallen and immedietly fall back into sin after becoming born again. its what has been holding humanity back for ages now and there doesnt seem to be a way to awaken all of humanity to the error of our ways. its why when we go to a church and ask them to restore our sight or regrow our missing limbs. those prayers are not answered, even though they should be. the fault is not with God but with our failure to understand our own sinful nature. im not sure its something that can even be rationaly explained to someone who is without Spirit. considering the dilema it sets up for us christians and for how the world actualy works, how can we even try to fix it. so here i go again with another attempt

the bible is very clearly Gods inspiriation for humanity. now look at our world. regardless of race,culture, country, belief, faith,religion or lack of religion, what is the current inspiration for humanity? MONEY, which is the devils inspiration for humanity. who is the world serving on a daily basis for inspiration? what does the bible say about money? matthew 6:24 --lets see it again Romans 6:23 -- 1 timothy 6:10-- over and over again the bible warns us about money. try in live in the world without it and find out how quickly the world will turn against you. money is a stick and a carrot, it is a whip and a chain. it is a sword over everyones head. people say money talks and bullshit walks, but money actually says one thing above all others. let me rule your world and you can have everything you want. people say money makes the world go round, but its love that makes the world go round, money exploits that love. sadly it also rewards it just as much as it punishes us. almost like mathew 5:45 -- that is how insidious money is, for how quickly it tries to mimic the word of God while misleading us.

money is just another way of us continuing to eat from the tree of knowledge. we dont even get to eat the fruit, we just gnaw at the roots. we exchange the fruits of ourselves through labor and knowledge for money. how does that serve God? seems like someone came in and tricked us with the same trick we fell for the first time. is that really what was said? are you sure thats what was meant?
almost like someone figured out a way to come between us and God. seems like someone got a taste for eating from humans in the garden and came up with a way to continue eating from us after we were exiled to the jungle. i iimagine we dont encounter all those things we call myths nowdays because they found a new way to eat. not like any of their myths invlove a tree with fruit and nectar that keeps them alive. could it be we are actually feeding them our own eternal life in exchange for money and death?

anything anyone says in defense of money i will respond with a classic that everyone has heard from a non-believer. im not going to let some people come up with a bunch of rules and regulations that dictate how im supposed to live my life.

if thats not bad enough when we do become ill or injured we go to a doctor and thats a whole nother post people wont like. talk about symbology,mythology, false religions and missplaced faith.

sorry i tend to get caught up in trying to explain things and start to repeat myself, if all of that is to much to understand regardless of our understanding of eternal life, God said in genesis 6:3 could be used as why people still die after being born again.

until i asked Jesus for help, i knew nothing.
duewell
the rainbow connection

Omegatime · Jul 7, 2023

Some words have double meaning --born anew or again/born from above. IMP Nicodemus was already a believer and Jesus was teaching the resurrection.

But the greatest question is if Jesus meant born again why didnt he mention it again or the Apostles, or their disciples, or the church for the next 1900 years???

JohnDB · Jul 7, 2023

Walter said:

Because Jesus was saying "Born from Above"....
A very distinct classification of a group of heroes from Israeli history.
And Nicodemus felt average....only thing was....he wasn't.

Nicodemus didn't know that the scriptures mentioned him specifically. (A key, defining aspect of Born from Above)
And Jesus was very pointedly explaining that God was watching him his whole life....that he was going to be a instrumental person in the days to come.

One of the great lessons in John that was destroyed by a marketing campaign; turning a mistranslation into a meaningless slogan.

ResidentAlien · Jul 7, 2023

JohnDB said:

Because Jesus was saying "Born from Above"....
A very distinct classification of a group of heroes from Israeli history.
And Nicodemus felt average....only thing was....he wasn't.

Nicodemus didn't know that the scriptures mentioned him specifically. (A key, defining aspect of Born from Above)
And Jesus was very pointedly explaining that God was watching him his whole life....that he was going to be a instrumental person in the days to come.

One of the great lessons in John that was destroyed by a marketing campaign; turning a mistranslation into a meaningless slogan.

If you don't get born again on the Sabbath you're probably not really born again.

JohnDB · Jul 7, 2023

ResidentAlien said:

You are gonna twist their biscuits completely off their shoulders with that one.

ResidentAlien · Jul 7, 2023

JohnDB said:

Nah, they never get twisted really. They just keep marching on toward the cliff.

Nehemiah6 · Jul 7, 2023

When Does A Christian Become Immortality/Born Again?

Click to expand...

That is a rather strange question. Immortality applies to the supernatural transformation of the body so that it will never die. This occurs at the Resurrection/Rapture. It is remotely connected to being born again, since that event is in the future.

But the New Birth (being born again) occurs almost immediately after a person is saved (justified by grace through faith). Those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and it is the Holy Spirit who regenerates the believer and makes that person a child of God. Thus "if any man be in Christ he is a New Creature". This is because the New Birth means being "born from above", "born of the Spirit", and "born of God". This is a transformation of the soul and spirit and produces a changed person who is obedient to God.

When Christ was speaking to Nicodemus, He was referring to this passage: Then will I sprinkle clean water [the Word of God] upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (Ezek 36:25-27)

The Word of God is called "water" in Scripture and it is indeed "clean water". The Gospel is also called the Word of God, and the preaching of the Gospel leads to faith in Christ, and faith in Christ leads to the New Birth.

Ted01 · Jul 7, 2023

Walter said:

I respectfully disagree...
I think Scripture shows us that we are indeed given Eternal life at the time of our conversion... born into a new, Spiritual life. "Born Again" because our first birth is a natural thing, the second birth is a thing spiritual.
Paul say, in Eph. 2:8 (ESV)
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Also, we are continuously being Saved throughout our walk with Christ. Being saved from our own selves and the sin that surrounds us in a world that has been corrupted. We grow and mature in newness of life (eternal) being conformed into the image of our Savior.
In 1 Cor. 1:18 (ESV), Paul talks about this continuing act:
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

And then, we will be Saved in the end-times and taken out of a corrupted world and into an existence where there is no sin. So, it's also a future event.... Rom. 13:11 (ESV)
Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed.

For me, it's a little over my head... a mystery of God. I know some people talk about such things as though they have it all figured out and that they understand "time" and eternal things... I ain't one of those.

Karlon · Jul 7, 2023

Walter said:

Thursday 7-6-23 5th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 17 5783, 16th. Summer Day

Hello, I have been thinking about the OP and the different posts, but have not received any revelation on what Jesus was talking about to Nicodemus. But I'm glad to have an understanding of these views on this thread and more on other site forums.

I was looking at: It is by scripture we as Christians are not Born Again until we are caught up to be with Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58

But here are some views from Bing:
In Christianity, being born again means having a spiritual renewal or change of heart by accepting Jesus as the Savior and Lord. It is not about physical birth or external requirements, but about receiving salvation and becoming part of God’s family1.

The phrase “born again” is frequently misinterpreted. Looking at its primary reference, we see that its meaning is not about physical birth, but about experiencing a spiritual renewal. It is an expression used by many Protestants to define the moment or process of fully accepting faith in Jesus Christ. It is an experience when the teachings of Christianity and Jesus become real, and the “born again” acquire a personal relationship with God2.

Also, we will be in prayer about this process.

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:3-8, Colossians 1:15-18, Romans 8:29, Revelation 1:5, 1 Corinthians 15:50, Galatians 4:26, 2 John 1, 2 John 13, Revelation 12:1-5, Hebrews 12:23, Malachi 3:1 - King James Version

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say...

www.biblegateway.com

Love, Walter And Debbie

a Christian does not become born again. you have to be born again 1st, then you are a Christian! John 3:5 is the #1 verse explaining the importance.. being Christian is a lifelong edifying experience that should be joyous, surrendering your life to Jesus, fulfilling God's plan for you.

RaceRunner · Jul 7, 2023

Ted01 said:

I respectfully disagree...
I think Scripture shows us that we are indeed given Eternal life at the time of our conversion... born into a new, Spiritual life. "Born Again" because our first birth is a natural thing, the second birth is a thing spiritual.
Paul say, in Eph. 2:8 (ESV)
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Also, we are continuously being Saved throughout our walk with Christ. Being saved from our own selves and the sin that surrounds us in a world that has been corrupted. We grow and mature in newness of life (eternal) being conformed into the image of our Savior.
In 1 Cor. 1:18 (ESV), Paul talks about this continuing act:
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

And then, we will be Saved in the end-times and taken out of a corrupted world and into an existence where there is no sin. So, it's also a future event.... Rom. 13:11 (ESV)
Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed.

For me, it's a little over my head... a mystery of God. I know some people talk about such things as though they have it all figured out and that they understand "time" and eternal things... I ain't one of those.

Remember, if you are choosing to believe any heresy you are not yet converted.

RaceRunner · Jul 7, 2023

Karlon said:

Remember, if someone is choosing to believe heresy they are not yet born again.

Karlon · Jul 7, 2023

Ted01 said:

I respectfully disagree...
I think Scripture shows us that we are indeed given Eternal life at the time of our conversion... born into a new, Spiritual life. "Born Again" because our first birth is a natural thing, the second birth is a thing spiritual.
Paul say, in Eph. 2:8 (ESV)
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Also, we are continuously being Saved throughout our walk with Christ. Being saved from our own selves and the sin that surrounds us in a world that has been corrupted. We grow and mature in newness of life (eternal) being conformed into the image of our Savior.
In 1 Cor. 1:18 (ESV), Paul talks about this continuing act:
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

And then, we will be Saved in the end-times and taken out of a corrupted world and into an existence where there is no sin. So, it's also a future event.... Rom. 13:11 (ESV)
Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed.

For me, it's a little over my head... a mystery of God. I know some people talk about such things as though they have it all figured out and that they understand "time" and eternal things... I ain't one of those.

indeed. everyone read 1st John 5:10 & 13!!!: "....son of god HATH THE WITNESS IN HIMSELF...." & ".......that you MAY KNOW you have eternal life....."

Karlon · Jul 7, 2023

RaceRunner said:

please explain!

ResidentAlien · Jul 7, 2023

Walter (Judaizer) (Judaizer) said:

Thursday 7-6-23 5th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 17 5783, 16th. Summer Day

Hello, I have been thinking about the OP and the different posts, but have not received any revelation on what Jesus was talking about to Nicodemus. But I'm glad to have an understanding of these views on this thread and more on other site forums.

I was looking at: It is by scripture we as Christians are not Born Again until we are caught up to be with Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58

But here are some views from Bing:
In Christianity, being born again means having a spiritual renewal or change of heart by accepting Jesus as the Savior and Lord. It is not about physical birth or external requirements, but about receiving salvation and becoming part of God’s family1.

The phrase “born again” is frequently misinterpreted. Looking at its primary reference, we see that its meaning is not about physical birth, but about experiencing a spiritual renewal. It is an expression used by many Protestants to define the moment or process of fully accepting faith in Jesus Christ. It is an experience when the teachings of Christianity and Jesus become real, and the “born again” acquire a personal relationship with God2.

Also, we will be in prayer about this process.

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:3-8, Colossians 1:15-18, Romans 8:29, Revelation 1:5, 1 Corinthians 15:50, Galatians 4:26, 2 John 1, 2 John 13, Revelation 12:1-5, Hebrews 12:23, Malachi 3:1 - King James Version

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say...

www.biblegateway.com

I'm quite sure your point in all this is similar to your previous thread in which you claim we can't have salvation unless we "grow up into the likeness of Christ"; in other words, keep the law. Same old story: we can't be sure of salvation; we have to keep working and keep obeying the law, then maybe we'll make it.

RaceRunner · Jul 7, 2023

Karlon said:

Choosing to believe heresy is a rejection of Jesus Christ.

Karlon · Jul 7, 2023

RaceRunner said:

what heresy in particular?

Walter · Jul 7, 2023

Gideon300 said:

?

Wansvic · Jul 7, 2023

Walter said:

The spiritual rebirth available to all NT believers can be understood upon consideration of God's design of the natural birth process.
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made..." Rom. 1:20. Both the natural and spiritual birth processes require water and Spirit.

Notice Nicodemus asked how a person could come back out of the womb a second time: “Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" Jesus answered Nicodemus, ...except a man be born of Water and of the Spirit, HE CANNOT ENTER into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:4-7) Again, both water and Spirit are required for the natural and spiritual birth processes.

Many argue the point that the water mentioned pertains to water baptism. However, scripture reveals otherwise. The detailed conversion experiences of every group of humanity reference WATER baptism in the name of Jesus, (for remission of sin) and the individual's being indwelt by the Holy SPIRIT. Jesus prophesied this would occur. (Luke 24:47) And it began in Jerusalem as He said it would. (Acts 2:38)

AFTER being filled with the Holy Spirit, Peter presented the initial message relative to the NT rebirth on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:1-42) It was on that day that Peter commanded Jewish believers to repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, (Water) and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Spirit) (Acts 2:38)

Philip carried the same message to the Samaritans (half-Jewish, half-Gentile) as witnessed by the account in Acts 8:12-18. Peter and John assisted the group in receiving the Holy Spirit days after they believed Philip's message and obeyed the command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus. This record demonstrates that one can believe and even be baptized in water and yet not receive the Spirit. There is no salvation without the Spirit. (Romans 8:9) The Samaritans needed the baptism of the Spirit to bring about the reality of the NT rebirth. Again, water baptism in the name of Jesus, and being indwelt with the Spirit harken back to Jesus' words to Nicodemus in John 3:3-5.

Peter carried the message to the Gentiles, and they received the Holy Spirit, and submitted to water baptism in the name of Jesus as well. (Acts 10:43-48)

Paul's interaction with the twelve in Acts 19:1-6 confirms that both water and Spirit play a role in the NT rebirth experience for all individuals. If not for this record, one could believe in error that the accounts relative to Gentiles and Samaritans was only for the purpose of establishing God's acceptance of peoples other than Jews. This account shatters that illusion and firmly establishes that the NT rebirth instructions are mandatory for all individuals.

Note scriptures relative to components of the rebirth:

"And (Jesus) said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
And ye are witnesses of these things.
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." Luke 24:46-49

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, (connection to water baptism) when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;" Acts 3:19

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his” (Romans 8:9).

When Does A Christian Become Immortality/Born Again?

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