Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Fundaamental]

Confirmation is as unscriptural as the made up need for it. Infant baptism, also unscriptural.

Whatever you say sir 😊

Will you say a kid who isn't saved befor they die unscriptural to.

Then perhaps you will also take the view, babies who die at 1 years old will go to hell too.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

People who claim scripture says Jesus is the pillar and ground of the truth are choosing to believe heresy.

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

this portion of that ^ Scripture: the house of God, which is the church of the living God:

who is the Living God?
it's His House!
the Living God, is the Pillar and Ground of TRUTH for His House.
so, we should act like we got a CLUE whenever we're in the Living God's, House.

 

[John146]

Galatians 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Can any lost man exhibit these qualities? Gentleness? Self-control? Peace? Joy? Kindness? Goodness? I know many lost people who are extremely good people, better than most believers.

 

[RaceRunner]

Can any lost man exhibit these qualities? Gentleness? Self-control? Peace? Joy? Kindness? Goodness? I know many lost people who are extremely good people, better than most believers.

Good people do not choose to believe heresy.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

RaceRunner said[/URL]:
People who claim scripture says Jesus is the pillar and ground of the truth are choosing to believe heresy.

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

"The_Watchers_2017, post: 5105495, member: 316734"]this portion of that ^ Scripture: the house of God, which is the church of the living God:

who is the Living God?

the very Next Verse, 16, answers who is the Living God:

16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness:

He was manifested in the flesh,
vindicated by the Spirit,
seen by angels,
proclaimed among the nations,
believed on in the world,
taken up in glory.

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Now let's look at some scriptures that plainly talk about walking away and falling away. I'm not going to use Hebrews because Hebrews is fiercely objected to by those who advocate OSAS, even though is has many relevant warnings about falling away. But Hebrews isn't necessary—there are plenty of others.

2 Peter 2:20-21—"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

This passage clearly illustrates a person who was once in Christ but who turned their back on Him. This shows a conscious action on the part of the one turning back. These verses correspond with Luke 9:26: "Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Matthew 24:10—"And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another."

1 Timothy 4:1—"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."

Matthew 24:13—"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Why say that those who endure to the end will be saved? If one cannot forfeit their salvation, why didn't He say "But all who have prayed the sinners prayer will be saved?"

Luke 9:26—"Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Already mentioned, Luke 9:26 is a clear warning from the Lord about falling away.

You somehow missed one passage,
Joh 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Joh 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
Joh 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

 

[ResidentAlien]

You somehow missed one passage,
Joh 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Joh 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
Joh 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

No, I didn't forget it.

 

[Underwhosewings]

Luke 15:32 KJV
It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Jude 1:12 KJV
These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

 

[Magenta]

what??

He (or she? RaceRunner) is saying Jesus is not the ground of truth.

 

[RaceRunner]

He (or she? RaceRunner) is saying Jesus is not the ground of truth.

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[Magenta]

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Jesus is the Truth, so how can He not be the ground of truth as well?

What you push sounds heretical. According to you, you'd better change that belief before you die.

The "church" is the body of Him Who gave His life so that we might have life more abundantly.

 

[RaceRunner]

Jesus is the Truth, so how can He not be the ground of truth as well?

What you push sounds heretical. According to you, you'd better change that belief before you die.

The "church" is the body of Him Who gave His life so that we might have life more abundantly.

I posted the correct scripture; you don't want to believe this scripture verse as written.

 

[Magenta]

I posted the correct scripture; you don't want to believe this scripture verse as written.

As written? You mean wth added punctuation that is not in the original text?

... the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

God is the ground of the truth whether you like it and accept it or not.

And since you do not, you are are choosing to believe in heresy.

 

[RaceRunner]

As written? You mean wth added punctuation that is not in the original text?

... the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I did not add any punctuation to 1 Timothy 3:15 which comes from the whole Holy Bible.

 

[Magenta]

I did not add any punctuation to 1 Timothy 3:15 which comes from the whole Holy Bible.

I did not say you did. What I said was:

As written? You mean wth added punctuation that is not in the original text?

God is the ground of the truth whether you like it and accept it or not.

And since you do not, you are are choosing to believe in heresy.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life...

Do you not believe Jesus???????

 

[RaceRunner]

I did not say you did. What I said was:

As written? You mean wth added punctuation that is not in the original text?

God is the ground of the truth whether you like it and accept it or not.

And since you do not, you are are choosing to believe in heresy.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life...

Do you not believe Jesus???????

I have not added anything to the whole Holy Bible.

 

[Magenta]

I have not added anything to the whole Holy Bible.

I did not say you did.

Do you believe Jesus, or not?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life...

Since you deny Jesus/God is the ground of all truth, you are choosing to believe heresy.

You had better change that belief before you die... The sooner, the better! NOW would be best...

 

[RaceRunner]

I did not say you did.

Do you believe Jesus, or not?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life...

Since you deny Jesus/God is the ground of all truth, you are choosing to believe heresy.

You had better change that belief before you die... The sooner, the better! NOW would be best...

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

this portion of that ^ Scripture: the house of God, which is the church of the living God:

who is the Living God?
it's His House!
the Living God, is the Pillar and Ground of TRUTH for His House.
so, we should act like we got a CLUE whenever we're in the Living God's, House.

 

[Magenta]

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I take that as a NO > YOU DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life...

You choose to believe heresy instead.

All heresy in forgivable unless you die in that wrenched state of believing heresy.