Has the Church Helped in Teaching Sexual Purity?

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Sorry for the long title. I don't mean this to get too personal or too graphic. It's just something that has been on my heart and mind lately. It would help if you didn't mind saying what age group you are and if you have been married before. Share anything you like but like I said this is more opinion then digging in to anyones personal life. Thank you.

 

[MsMediator]

Sorry for the long title. I don't mean this to get too personal or too graphic. It's just something that has been on my heart and mind lately. It would help if you didn't mind saying what age group you are and if you have been married before. Share anything you like but like I said this is more opinion then digging in to anyones personal life. Thank you.

What do you mean by sexual purity? My church has warned against premarital sex but I have never understood what "sexual purity" really means. Does it mean avoiding activities with the opposite gender? There are dances called purity balls which I find offputting.

I do believe that the church teaching on chastity is fine and Biblical but not really sure what "sexual purity" means. Whatever it is, I find it extreme and unnecessary.

 

[seoulsearch]

Sorry for the long title. I don't mean this to get too personal or too graphic. It's just something that has been on my heart and mind lately. It would help if you didn't mind saying what age group you are and if you have been married before. Share anything you like but like I said this is more opinion then digging in to anyones personal life. Thank you.

Hi @ThereRoseaLamb,

This is just from my own observation: the churches I've been part of try their best to teach sexual purity, but they can't really do anything absolute, or even effective, at enforcing it.

I've written about this before so I'm sorry to bore anyone, but I grew up in WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod) schools. Sex was only talked about in the context of it being God's great gift in marriage; otherwise, the message seemed to be, "Don't think about it, don't talk about it, and for goodness sake, don't ask us anything about it!" Sex education was never taught but it assumed that we all knew how sex worked, and we all needed to avoid it in all forms as much as possible.

I do have to give credit to one pastor I had who really did try to have honest conversations with us about developing healthy views about sex (talking about how couples have to go from thinking of it as COMPLETELY forbidden one day to this wholesome loving gift from God the very next day when they got married.)

However, it didn't stop young people from finding a way. I can think of about half a dozen teen pregnancies that occurred during my time in Lutheran schools (and I'm sure there were others I just didn't know about.) But you'd never find a pregnant girl walking through our school, as they were forbidden to come back, which was something I always found to be rather at odds with the message of love and forgiveness.

One couple got caught passing notes of their planned and apparently very graphic adventures for the weekend, which the teachers then used as another chance to enforce the spoken "NO NO NO" policy.

Another couple got caught because they had skipped school -- in order to have an abortion. As punishment, they had to write a letter of apology to the staff, student body, and were not allowed to walk at graduation. The others I'm trying to remember simply disappeared to other programs, such as night school or GED's. Some got pregnant after school had ended.

And some of these were the kids of pastors and prominent teachers in the churches and school. I remember one pastor saying that his "daughters knew he saw everything" as a way to proclaim that he made sure the rules were kept (I'm not sure if he thought differently about his sons, as I remember him specifically saying 'daughter' in this incidence) but one of his daughters still got pregnant. I have also noticed, in the churches I've been in, that a much harsher judgment has been given to the girl who gets pregnant rather than the father of her child.

I've also noticed that sexual purity/sin is always aimed at what seems to be the thought of, "those rebellious uncontrollable young people" and/or singles. It's usually assumed (at least in the circles I've been exposed to) that single people are always out every weekend perusing bars and hookups (pardon me while I roll my eyes at blanket stereotypes.)

The funny thing is, sexual purity is often seen as a "young people's problem" that must be religiously beaten into submission, when I have to wonder how much of this "scourge" is spreading to the older populations.

I was part of a church a few years ago in which the 50-ish pastor said that one of his biggest challenges was older people who are divorced or widowed, because they tell him, "Yeah, I can see the point of that abstinence stuff for teenagers, but I'm a grown adult and things are different for me." They no longer saw sexual purity as having any application to them, and followed their whims as they wished, especially now that there was no worry of kids walking in on them, and if the woman had gone through menopause, no reason to fear they might get pregnant.

I certainly don't have any answers for either side of the fence but the bottom line seems to be that people are going to do what they are determined to do, and at any age. If the church CAN get people to follow purity guidelines more effectively, I don't know what they could do besides locking everyone up in gender-segregated camps (and even then, that probably wouldn't work out.) I remember learning about a troubled youth program in college in which it was said that they couldn't house 17-year-olds with, say, 8-year-olds, or the older boys would start to victimize the younger ones.

I have to wonder if one of the reasons the church has a hard time selling purity, and can only resort to fear-based tactics ("you'll go to hell!") is because so many of us know many people who followed all the rules, did all the right things, and yet things have turned out horribly for them. Two of the girls in my high school at the time I was there outwardly did "all the right things" and it resulted in abusive spouses taking their lives. In each case, the girls were shot to death by their husbands -- one in front of her 3 children, as the oldest, about 11 at the time, was trying frantically to call 911.

I didn't know them personally except to perhaps say hi (one sat behind me in study hall; the other was the most popular girl in school who went on to become one of the most successful and well-known people in the community,) but it seemed that they doing what they were told, and this was their "reward."

I think this is another reason why the church has a hard time enforcing rules on how people are to refrain from what seems like their strongest desires. It might not be as extreme as the stories I mentioned above, but we all know people who have tried their best to live Godly lives and yet find themselves in unhappy, sometimes terrible or tragic situations.

I think the thought then becomes a literally case of, "I'm doomed if I do, and I'm doomed if I don't," and so it becomes a matter of which path seems most appealing or will bring at least some kind of gratification, since the person feels they will be punished either way.

In many ways, I'm glad I never became a parent, because I don't know if I would have been able to guide young people through these ever-increasing challenges.

(Sorry, I forgot to include that my age range is a long, long way from high school , and yes, I was married before, but he left for someone else.)

 

[Lanolin]

I cant say as didnt go to any christian school, but we do have parenting books in the church library and some of them mention it (and also separate books for men and women) but as far as I know its not taught explicitly

Even in womens conferences nobody really talks about it. I think people know basic hygiene and there are of course sanitary bins in womens toilets but whether the church ever teaches about menstruation I wouldnt know.

The most children may get is in year 5 and 6 a nurse comes to school with some pads and tampns and give you a booklet about what your vagina looks like on the inside. Its not mentioned how sex is done and its presumed parents would tell children about birds and bees.

Most parents dont or only mention in passing. I know young children are curious and they sometimes ask me or they may have seen their parents do it (by accident) or if living on a farm animals mate.

 

[Lanolin]

At high school I was in a group of girls and I do remember we speculated about what sex was and what it would be like. And of course most of us had seen it done on tv. if not explictly it was implied when couples emerged from a bed all sweaty and half naked.

 

[Lynx]

Ever wonder WHY we are supposed to avoid fornication?

Ever notice all the drama and crap that people who sleep around eventually have to deal with?

Our pastor wasn't always a Christian. Once he was one of the good ole boys down at the bar, smoking weed and etc.

I don't know about any other churches, but at our church we understand the reasons why we should avoid that kind of stuff. Our pastor is quite frank (without being pornographic) about the grief it brings.

 

[Lynx]

Mind you, we all have free will and choices to make. There have been a couple or three folks who went ahead and got what they wanted, and got all the grief that they were told came with it.

We still love them though. And they knew what they were getting into when they made their decisions. Can't nobody say they went in blind.

 

[seoulsearch]

At high school I was in a group of girls and I do remember we speculated about what sex was and what it would be like. And of course most of us had seen it done on tv. if not explictly it was implied when couples emerged from a bed all sweaty and half naked.

This reminds me of when I was in Lutheran grade school and the boys were discussing women's bodies among themselves, because they didn't understand how sex worked as far as the female mechanics were concerned.

One boy thought the crucial part on a woman for sex was the belly button.

He said he later figured everything out, but it was due to seeking out pornographic materials (and these were the days long before the internet, when kids who weren't told about sex might find out from a stack of magazines they found hidden in their parent's closets.)

 

[seoulsearch]

Ever wonder WHY we are supposed to avoid fornication?

Ever notice all the drama and crap that people who sleep around eventually have to deal with?

Our pastor wasn't always a Christian. Once he was one of the good ole boys down at the bar, smoking weed and etc.

I don't know about any other churches, but at our church we understand the reasons why we should avoid that kind of stuff. Our pastor is quite frank (without being pornographic) about the grief it brings.

Mind you, we all have free will and choices to make. There have been a couple or three folks who went ahead and got what they wanted, and got all the grief that they were told came with it.

We still love them though. And they knew what they were getting into when they made their decisions. Can't nobody say they went in blind.

Unfortunately, the sinful human nature makes sure that desire wins out a lot more often than knowledge or common sense.

Even in the most basic of situations -- people know they shouldn't text when they drive, but they do. It doesn't matter how many pictures of mangled cars and limbs they see of accidents that can happen, they'll still do it. Whatever desire they have to be on their phone right at that moment wins out over what they know.

And so the list goes on... I have a bottle of rum in my cabinet for a recipe I used to make (rum raisin ice cream.) My parents saw it while helping me move and gave me the side eye... and I reassured them that I only had it for a recipe, and I haven't made that recipe in probably 3 years. I don't like alcohol on it's own -- the only thing I like are a few recipes made with alcohol, and I obviously don't have them very often.

But for someone else, that same bottle of alcohol would be gone in a day, maybe a few hours, even though they know all the consequences of continuously giving into it. Desire wins out in the end. And so it goes, for so many things in this life. I think almost anyone knows better. But we all choose to do something anyway.

Even with sex -- sure, we all know the dangers of sleeping around, but then sin gets to us another way, telling us that it's ok if we just have a glimpse at this or that show, take a peek at that one website, read something a bit too graphic or see things we know we shouldn't be looking at -- because at least we can't get a disease or anyone pregnant, right? But yet it's all still sin.

And for people who can't understand giving into sex or drugs or alcohol, I have to think of a preacher I once heard say, "If you can't resist that hamburger right in front of you, how are you going to resist a devil that's trying to kill you?" I have often wondered, how much of what we eat does God hold us responsible for?

If we leave this earth at 20, 30, 50+ pounds overweight, is God going to scold us for our earthly gluttony and lack of self-control?

But for most people, there is some form of desire -- the donuts with coffee in the morning, the burger and fries and lunch, the fried chicken and mashed potatoes loaded with sour cream and bacon, all washed down with a sugary beverage of choice and topped off with half a carton of ice cream -- that overrides everything they know, and is slowly killing them.


I think every person, in one way or another, has some form of kryptonite they give into that goes against rhyme or reason, even though we all surely know better.

 

[Lynx]

Unfortunately, the sinful human nature makes sure that desire wins out a lot more often than knowledge or common sense.

Even in the most basic of situations -- people know they shouldn't text when they drive, but they do. It doesn't matter how many pictures of mangled cars and limbs they see of accidents that can happen, they'll still do it. Whatever desire they have to be on their phone right at that moment wins out over what they know.

And so the list goes on... I have a bottle of rum in my cabinet for a recipe I used to make (rum raisin ice cream.) My parents saw it while helping me move and gave me the side eye... and I reassured them that I only had it for a recipe, and I haven't made that recipe in probably 3 years. I don't like alcohol on it's own -- the only thing I like are a few recipes made with alcohol, and I obviously don't have them very often.

But for someone else, that same bottle of alcohol would be gone in a day, maybe a few hours, even though they know all the consequences of continuously giving into it. Desire wins out in the end. And so it goes, for so many things in this life. I think almost anyone knows better. But we all choose to do something anyway.

Even with sex -- sure, we all know the dangers of sleeping around, but then sin gets to us another way, telling us that it's ok if we just have a glimpse at this or that show, take a peek at that one website, read something a bit too graphic or see things we know we shouldn't be looking at -- because at least we can't get a disease or anyone pregnant, right? But yet it's all still sin.

And for people who can't understand giving into sex or drugs or alcohol, I have to think of a preacher I once heard say, "If you can't resist that hamburger right in front of you, how are you going to resist a devil that's trying to kill you?" I have often wondered, how much of what we eat does God hold us responsible for?

If we leave this earth at 20, 30, 50+ pounds overweight, is God going to scold us for our earthly gluttony and lack of self-control?

But for most people, there is some form of desire -- the donuts with coffee in the morning, the burger and fries and lunch, the fried chicken and mashed potatoes loaded with sour cream and bacon, all washed down with a sugary beverage of choice and topped off with half a carton of ice cream -- that overrides everything they know, and is slowly killing them.


I think every person, in one way or another, has some form of kryptonite they give into that goes against rhyme or reason, even though we all surely know better.

Oh trust me I know that all too well...

I think a large part of it is the conviction that "I'm smart enough to avoid the penalty." We are certain we have figured out how to get what we want and get around the downside that comes with it.

Sometimes we think this over and over and over. No matter how often we get hurt, or hurt others, we keep thinking "Okay THIS time I've got it mastered."

We're not alone though. Solomon was the wisest person ever, and he thought he could have what he want and get around what God said would result from it...

 

[Aerials1978]

A lot of mainstream denominations are not teaching basic biblical tenets much less sexual purity.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

In all the churches I've gone to, the pastors have never directly talked about sex in their sermons and how to overcome its temptations. I appreciate that you are asking about sexual purity because you're right, it's not just about avoiding having sex out of marriage. It's also about not committing sexual deviance whether within marriage or outside of it.

For me personally, I had learned to control sexual desire by being fully submitted to the Holy Spirit - He really does make a big difference! But it took quite a while to learn that even though the Bible says it plainly. I wish the churches talked a whole lot more about the Holy Spirit's role in helping us live according to holy standards. Submitting to the Holy Spirit and letting Him empower us really does make it so much easier to resist not only having sex outside of marriage, but keeping out of sexual deviance as well.

❧

 

[MichaelZ]

The elephant in the room that no one talks about is pornography, especially the very vile type that the average 12 year old can access on their Smart phone. (And in my opinion, Smart phones are destroying our youth!) But it does not even have to be that type of pornography, but just the mainstream racey stuff in advertisements, social media, or tv shows that I would call soft-core pornography. There is very little mention of this from the pulpit. Our pastor is now working through the end of Ephesians 4 and I assume then Ephesians 5 where this is addressed In verse 3. I am wondering if he will address it.

 

[Lanolin]

before smartphones internet etc

Boys and men may have had playboy or hustler or whatever

Girls and women had Cosmopolitan magazine. But it wasnt porn it was more sex advice.
You could talk about it late at night on talkback radio if you were inclined and gave a false name.
Sex was beginning to be talked about more in the 90s when it seemed no longer taboo, with shows like Sex and the city, salt and pepa singing 'lets talk about sex'

Ive just read a book about girls growing up and what mothers should tell them, I think books like Focus on the Family etc have resources and videos and pastors would counsel couples about their future marriages.

They would have this diagram of dating that of the places couples were allowed to touch and their progression and it went hand to hand, hand to shoulder, shoulder to hair, hair to mouth (I can remember all of it but you get the gist) but other than that from what I recall all christian teen girls were actively encouraged to be married or engaged the moment they left highschool and have lots of babies as soon as they could because that was just the epitome of being a woman.

They all wanted the white wedding because if you werent a virgin you were not allowed to wear the white gown of course!

I was not a christian though when I was a teen and didnt really believe that was ever going to be my destiny. Most of my friends had parents that had difficult marriages or were split up so they didnt have many role models, only the ones from christian families would encourage them to marry young and hunt down husbands. We had more important things to do, like study for careers an earn our livings. Men would just tie us down.

 

[Lanolin]

If someone has a big sexual appetite then being married and sticking with one partner will not contain it, these married people would soon find their spouse going astray having affairs anyway, so they just ended up comitting adultery, which is not 'pure' and also...prositution has been going on since Bible times and married people are not immune to this either.

so, am not sure what exactly is mant by sexual purity as it can actually be a messy business between two ppl anyway even if they are married. Because you can be raped and sexually abused within marriage, that is not uncommon.

These days its not about sexual purity. These days people teach what consent means.

When I was a child I remeber these colouring books that were about safe houses and the message was Its Ok to say NO. It was basically about being safe from paedophiles and perverts. They could be anybody...a family member, even a teacher, some random person on the street, your stepbrother....your date.

 

[Moses_Young]

This reminds me of when I was in Lutheran grade school and the boys were discussing women's bodies among themselves, because they didn't understand how sex worked as far as the female mechanics were concerned.

One boy thought the crucial part on a woman for sex was the belly button.

He said he later figured everything out, but it was due to seeking out pornographic materials (and these were the days long before the internet, when kids who weren't told about sex might find out from a stack of magazines they found hidden in their parent's closets.)

I can relate to this. I think in some Christian circles, there's so much fear about mentioning anything even remotely related to sex that it creates an unhealthy curiousity - an artificial boundary which is normal for people to want to understand, but once understood, there is no boundary remaining to prevent transgression to where the boundary should have been placed - at sexual sin.

I remember a pastor at church once cut short a sermon reading from Song of Solomon because the verse mentioned the beloved's breasts. By the grace of God I was never involved in pornography, but I can understand boys becoming involved at first simply due to curiousity, because some Christians are so scared of explaining the basic facts of life given some people will, of their own volition, ultimately decide to go ahead and commit sexual sin.

I think Christians who put unneeded taboos on sensible talk of sex and female anatomy ultimately work to counteract a Christian understanding of sex and sexual purity.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Has the Church Helped in Teaching Sexual Purity?

I can only speak from my own experience and my answer is no. Seems to me, before the sexual revolution it was taught more; but since the 1960s it's become a taboo subject. Thankfully, with the explosion of internet porn and because so many people have fallen prey to it, specialized ministries are cropping up to help. Honestly, I think it's been avoided for so long because so many clergy and lay people alike are involved in sexual impurity, so it's easier to just not talk about it.

I remember an experience I had when I was younger. I grew up in a United Methodist Chruch and there was this man everyone seemed to consider a pillar of the church. A friend of mine was related to him and one day we were at the man's house. In his workshop he had a calendar with a nude woman posing on it. Another time, when I was a little older, I was walking down the street in front of a porn shop and out comes this other man I knew from that same church. He was married and I guess he could say he was in there buying something to spice up his love life with his wife. But should Christians really be going into a porn shop? So many stories like this I coud tell. I'm not saying I've been a saint all my life, just saying there are many people caught up in sexual sin and need spiritual help.

 

[MichaelZ]

before smartphones internet etc

Boys and men may have had playboy or hustler or whatever

Yes, but we could at least keep it away from children with a little effort. Now, it is so easy to access. It is like having a dirty book store in your child’s closet. We have lost all sense of modesty and this has no doubt led to the sexual deviancy movement that is in full swing.

There are even reports of men no longer even wanting to date! No doubt, readily available pornography plays a role in this. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ng-men-relationships-study-week-in-patriarchy

 

[RodB651]

I think Christians who put unneeded taboos on sensible talk of sex and female anatomy ultimately work to counteract a Christian understanding of sex and sexual purity.

A very good point!

 

[ResidentAlien]

There are even reports of men no longer even wanting to date! No doubt, readily available pornography plays a role in this. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ng-men-relationships-study-week-in-patriarchy

I can speak from personal experience. I was a porn addict from a very young age. I had one relationship I though might turn into marriage but I ended up destructing it. Porn always took first place. Later I simply gave up. I reasoned, why bother with complicated relationships with mediocre women when any kind of porn was there free for the taking? My life was a living hell; I'm so thankful He called me out of all that.