water baptism in Jesus' Name.

[KJVMan]

If John's baptism was without power, and "worthless", then why did Jesus show his example, and got the baptism himself?
And about those who clearly were saved before they got baptized - why get the baptism, when you are saved? Because Jesus told them to. We don't understand everything, but hear this: The Bible shows us no christian persons who belonged to the right church, and who did not get baptized in the end.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

@WayneKCobb, Thanks for the PDF - upon opening it, first question =

man's way?:




Interesting = where is?:

"Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.​

There is one Body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope​

of your calling; One LORD, one faith, one Baptism, One God and Father​

of all, Who is above all, and through all, and in you all."​

(Ephesians 4:3-6)​

An error, perhaps? Will one Dis-unity error then lead to other errors? let us see:

Summary of: Three baptisms, Rightly Divided, Within God's Contexts
(Dispensations):

(1) Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL:

water baptism was man's operation, Commanded by God
to John the baptizer, and then by Christ to:

►►► The Twelve apostles who Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =

A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)
+
This Is The Baptism That "Christ Performed" after ascending Into Heaven:

B) Baptism WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for
power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Covenants/Law

Q: Are these TWO "still Required" By God, for us, Today, Under Grace?
Bible Answer:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

(2) Mystery/GRACE! =

our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The One Body Of CHRIST:

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY " The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; ►►► 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB ◄◄◄)
===================================
Conclusion:

1) This ONE ( Spiritual ) Baptism in Ephesians 4:5, cannot possibly be
water ( physical ) ritual God Required For Israel for "the remission of sins."
under the law, but is for The One Body (v 4), Under Grace.

2) IF we take the ONE Baptism out of God's Immediate Context of 7 Spiritual Unities
The Plain And Clear Passage (v 3-6), and make it physical, That Would Be

Destruction and Dis-unity of God's Context, Would It Not? ​

3) God Cannot possibly "be in us" by 'man's ritual', But By God's OPERATION, yes?

4) This Spiritual Operation then, Under The Current Dispensation Of Grace, would be the:

"ONE Baptism By The One Holy Spirit for the forgiveness of sins," (Titus 3:5-7) eh?

5) Please, let us prayerfully And Carefully not "join together" What God Has Said
Are "Things That Differ," Causing Confusing errors.

Amen?

Also, there is this study: UnScriptural or UNdispensational?

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

why do you say "it is necessary"
Because without the remission of sins we are not "under Grace".

Would you not agree?

Precious friend, can't argue with God on that one = Under "Grace, Through 'faith'" in:

The LORD Jesus Christ, His Death, Burial, and Resurrection, According To Scriptures
(Ephesians 2:8-9; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4), I have Received From God:

"In Whom we have Redemption Through His BLOOD, The Forgiveness ​

of sins, According To The Riches of His Grace" (Ephesians 1:7)​

+

"In Whom we have Redemption Through His BLOOD, Even The ​

Forgiveness of sins" (Colossians 1:14 cp 2:13 "ALL trespasses!" )​

​

So, I should 'add' water ( under law ) To God's Teaching, Under Grace?

Would not that be a problem With God's Teaching Of:

"And if by Grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise Grace ​

is no more Grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more Grace: ​

otherwise work is no more work." (Romans 11:6)​

Which do you wish? Cancel the works, and Have God's Grace, or
Cancel His Grace, and have the work?

Works of the law

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

Grace Through faith

Amen?

 

[mailmandan]

Some people resist the truth. Sad but true.

Sadly, some people are unable to see anything beyond their biased church doctrine and because of human pride it would be devastating for them to admit they are wrong. I was raised in the Roman Catholic church and had also spent some time in the church of Christ prior to my conversion several years ago, so I know just how deeply indoctrinated many of these water-salvationists can be. Those who teach you absolutely must be water baptized in order to be saved typically add other works to the mix as well. In the end it's salvation by faith + works for these folks no matter how much they try and sugar coat it.

 

[KJVMan]

Sadly, some people are unable to see anything beyond their biased church doctrine and because of human pride it would be devastating for them to admit they are wrong. I was raised in the Roman Catholic church and had also spent some time in the church of Christ prior to my conversion several years ago, so I know just how deeply indoctrinated many of these water-salvationists can be. Those who teach you absolutely must be water baptized in order to be saved typically add other works to the mix as well. In the end it's salvation by faith + works for these folks no matter how much they try and sugar coat it.

With all due respect. Is this what Jesus says - "only believe, and don't bother getting baptized"?
No. He says:

Mark 16,16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved

Do someone call themselves a true christian, when they haven't gotten themselves baptized in a true church? No.

 

[Cameron143]

With all due respect. Is this what Jesus says - "only believe, and don't bother getting baptized"?
No. He says:

Mark 16,16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved

Do someone call themselves a true christian, when they haven't gotten themselves baptized in a true church? No.

No one is saying don't get baptized. They are saying baptism doesn't result in salvation.

 

[Lamar]

No one is saying don't get baptized. They are saying baptism doesn't result in salvation.

And no one is saying that baptism results in salvation.

What is being discussed in the when the remission of sins happens.

KJVMan is simply stating that Jesus Himself declared two requirements for salvation: belief and baptism.
Jesus also made it clear that a lack of faith leads of death.

The words of Jesus are clear: disbelieve and die
or believe and be baptized and live.

 

[Cameron143]

And no one is saying that baptism results in salvation.

What is being discussed in the when the remission of sins happens.

KJVMan is simply stating that Jesus Himself declared two requirements for salvation: belief and baptism.
Jesus also made it clear that a lack of faith leads of death.

The words of Jesus are clear: disbelieve and die
or believe and be baptized and live.

That's fine. But the baptism Jesus has in mind is the baptism of fire by which we are placed into Christ. This is a very spiritual reality and occurs when we believe.

 

[Ted01]

And no one is saying that baptism results in salvation.

What is being discussed in the when the remission of sins happens.

KJVMan is simply stating that Jesus Himself declared two requirements for salvation: belief and baptism.
Jesus also made it clear that a lack of faith leads of death.

The words of Jesus are clear: disbelieve and die
or believe and be baptized and live.

This seems rather convoluted to me...

First you say that you're talking about Salvation (through baptism), but then you end by saying that only with baptism can we be saved...?

BTW, if you think that Act 22:16 is the magic formula to be saved... I guess that since it doesn't include "believing", that you don't think that necessary for salvation?

 

[Aaron56]

If John's baptism was without power, and "worthless", then why did Jesus show his example, and got the baptism himself?
And about those who clearly were saved before they got baptized - why get the baptism, when you are saved? Because Jesus told them to. We don't understand everything, but hear this: The Bible shows us no christian persons who belonged to the right church, and who did not get baptized in the end.

John was the son the the High priest (a Levite) who had taken the vow of the Nazarite. He was, in effect, a super-priest (if you will).
Jesus was the Lamb of God. Under the law, all sacrifices needed to be washed by the priests before they are offered to God.
When Jesus told John to baptize Him “to fulfill all righteousness” He was talking about the ceremonial law of washing the sacrifice: the priest (John) must was the Lamb (Jesus).

This was the actual moment He gave His life up for us. His Father (Our Father) confirmed this from heaven and declared “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” In the tradition of the time, the Father said, to paraphrase, “In all manner of my business this son represents me. When you see him you are doing business directly with me as he is now executor of my estate”.

Likewise, we are called to be living sacrifices within the estate of God, our Father.

To our error we have made the word "baptism" into a religious word. "Baptism" simply means to immerse. So, whenever we read "baptism" in the scriptures we should not assume it means "in water". No. It simply means "to immerse".

So, if I were going to immerse you (baptize you) into the name of someone, for example, I would not necessarily have to add water. A person's name carries with them the authority to function within a prescribed parameter. Not so long ago it was common for police to say "Stop! In the name of the law!". In this, the policeman was declaring his right of authority 1st, to make you stop and 2nd, to do so in the name of the law. The law gave him the authority to declare such a thing. He did not throw down a sticky rug with the word "law" on it in order to make the fleeing person stop.

There are 4 baptisms in the New Testament: fire, water, in the Spirit, and by the Spirit. The "one baptism" that saves us from this world is the one by which we are placed into the body of Christ: the baptism by the Holy Spirit. If we are not placed into Christ (the Holy Spirit is the One who has the power and authority to accomplish this) then we are not of Him and do not have a destiny apart from the destiny of Adam: to die in our sins.

Now, don't think that I am saying baptisms of any form are unimportant. No. They are all important and should be standard practice within the lives of all believers.

 

[Aaron56]

The baptism of fire is the one by which we are refined by trials. This is for the saving of our souls from the work of the enemy. Without the immersion in fire, or fiery trials, we would never renew our minds to have the mind of Christ, and subsequently, never be entrusted with the affairs of our Father's house.

Jesus spoke of the enemy being unable to "find anything in Him". This is the purpose for fire: it teaches us, through suffering, to abandon the desires of the flesh and world. Jesus "learned obedience by the things He suffered". This is the pattern or Father continues with all who are His sons.

 

[Ted01]

This seems rather convoluted to me...

First you say that you're talking not about Salvation (through baptism), but then you end by saying that only with baptism can we be saved...?

BTW, if you think that Act 22:16 is the magic formula to be saved... I guess that since it doesn't include "believing", that you don't think that necessary for salvation?

Sorry, I had to add the "not" 'cause I'm a bit OCD...

 

[KJVMan]

That's fine. But the baptism Jesus has in mind is the baptism of fire by which we are placed into Christ. This is a very spiritual reality and occurs when we believe.

How do you know it is the baptism of fire? I am sure he means the baptism of John - the baptism of water.

 

[Cameron143]

How do you know it is the baptism of fire? I am sure he means the baptism of John - the baptism of water.

Isn't the baptism in Jesus' Name? Didn't John say He would baptize with fire?

 

[Cameron143]

How do you know it is the baptism of fire? I am sure he means the baptism of John - the baptism of water.

Aaron56 actually explained this earlier very well. The baptism actually taking place is our being placed into the body of Christ. It is not a felt experience. We are declared to be so. Water baptism symbolizes our immersion into Christ.

 

[KJVMan]

Aaron56 actually explained this earlier very well. The baptism actually taking place is our being placed into the body of Christ. It is not a felt experience. We are declared to be so. Water baptism symbolizes our immersion into Christ.

That is not what I was told in my church. They teached me about the water baptism.

 

[Cameron143]

That is not what I was told in my church. They teached me about the water baptism.

I understand. I'm not asking you to believe me but that you might prayerfully consider the matter.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Note: I have decided to cancel my question:
"Would God Have us All Solve The Massive Confusion of baptisms?"
due to lack of interest, and take a chance on some brief thoughts here about:

The "one baptism" that saves us from this world is the one by which we are placed into the body of Christ: the baptism by the Holy Spirit.

And all God's people said "Amen!" Amen?

No one is saying don't get baptized. They are saying baptism doesn't result in salvation.

With all due respect: ( almost ) no one except God, In The Dispensation Of His Grace.

And no one is saying that baptism results in salvation.

With all due respect: No one except the church of christ, and some other
baptismal-regeneration ( works-for-salvation ) groups...

the baptism Jesus has in mind is the baptism of fire by which we are placed into Christ.

With all due respect: You do realize of course that 'fire' in Scripture is associated with 'judgment'? I believe 'salvation' is associated with God's Justification. Amen?

Now, don't think that I am saying baptisms of any form are unimportant. No. They are all important and should be standard practice within the lives of all believers.

With all due respect:

All who say 'yes, get water baptized' after as you Very Well Pointed Out: "we
Are Already Baptized By ONE Baptism, BY The Holy Spirit ), have a (bad math =
TWO baptismS problem), plus an additional Very Severe problem, teaching at
least 12 ( 'standard practice' ) Different doctrines about water ( the Biggest
Divider in Christendom? List of these available, IF anyone wishes... )

With all due respect. Is this what Jesus says - "only believe, and don't bother getting baptized"?
No. He says:

Mark 16,16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved

Do someone call themselves a true christian, when they haven't gotten themselves baptized in a true church?

With all due respect, this small summary of Three Of 13 Bible baptisms, may be
helpful in this discussion, I hope and pray: LORD, Please Give us all understanding.
Amen.
-----------------------
With God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, HE Teaches:

Three Bible Baptisms:​

God's Context Of Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL, YESTERDAY!:

►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12 ) baptismS =

A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25; Isaiah 52:15)
+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

God's Other Context Of Mystery/GRACE! =

our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST, TODAY!:

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today:

Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB!)

Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE

Or, Equals two? = water problem with God's Math! Correct?
----------------------------------
This have also been Very Helpful:

Water That Divides!!
-------------------------
My own personal study for solving Confusion, by prayerful/Careful
consideration of This Eternally Important Matter, ok?:

ONE Baptism

Amen.

--------------------------------------

God's ONE Baptism:

If, precious friend(s), you do not have this yet, with God, you can have:

Grace, Peace, And JOY!

 

[BroTan]

I would like here to make a case for baptism in Jesus' Name.

First I want to show that scripturally baptism has the power to save.

1Pe 3:20, Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21, The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

In verse 20, it makes it clear that the baptism being spoken of in verse 21 is water baptism.

Now, I know that a case can be made that we are saved by grace through faith; as though this excluded being saved through the grace of baptism. In this post I will not argue that a person can only be saved through baptism in Jesus' Name (except in part); but that baptism in Jesus' Name has the power to save a soul;

And that therefore, if you have any doubts about your salvation, being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins may be something that you might want to try.

For it is written,

Deu 4:29, But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

and,

Jer 29:13, And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

It should be clear that there is a conditional promise in holy scripture, that we can receive the gift of the Holy Ghost...

The condition being that we repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins:

Act 2:38, Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39, For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

I would say, also, that if baptism does indeed save, that this salvation is in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth:

Act 4:10, Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11, This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Now, here I will make a case for the exclusivisity in salvation of being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins.

For the promise of Acts 2:38 is a conditional promise.

Act 2:39, For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And it is given to as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Consider.

Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

If you are not among the called, then you were never predestinated unto salvation; and will not be justified.

Nevertheless, in Mark 16:16, it is those who believe not who will be damned; baptism isn't mentioned (as concerning condemnation for lack of it) except as a guarantee for salvation wherein it says, "whosoever believeth and is baptized shall be saved."

This indicates to me that, whereas in John 3:16, if you believe only, you "should" not perish, that if you believe and are baptized, you have an absolute promise of salvation...the word "shall" is an absolute one...whereas the word "should" is rather iffy.

So, I will not here preach that you must be baptized in Jesus' Name or else you will not be saved (I will allow the word of God to do that preaching for me, in verses already quoted); but I will say that if you want absolute assurance of salvation, the next step is to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins.

Then, you shall receive remission of sins (1 John 3:9) and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Excellent verses......allow to add a few verse, because if we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of mouth of God (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must repent, give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

"And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." (Luke 7:29-30). People, if you are in a position to be baptized, why reject the counsel of God? Rejecting God's counsel will get you eternal life in the burning flames (lake of fire) with the scribes and Pharisees. "For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, Ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5: 20).

Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16):

 

[Lamar]

Precious friend, can't argue with God on that one = Under "Grace, Through 'faith'" in:

The LORD Jesus Christ, His Death, Burial, and Resurrection, According To Scriptures
(Ephesians 2:8-9; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4), I have Received From God:

"In Whom we have Redemption Through His BLOOD, The Forgiveness ​

of sins, According To The Riches of His Grace" (Ephesians 1:7)​

+

"In Whom we have Redemption Through His BLOOD, Even The ​

Forgiveness of sins" (Colossians 1:14 cp 2:13 "ALL trespasses!" )​

Which do you wish? Cancel the works, and Have God's Grace, or
Cancel His Grace, and have the work?

Works of the law

Would not that be a problem With God's Teaching Of:

"And if by Grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise Grace ​

is no more Grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more Grace: ​

otherwise work is no more work." (Romans 11:6)​

Which do you wish? Cancel the works, and Have God's Grace, or
Cancel His Grace, and have the work?

Works of the law

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

Grace Through faith

Amen?

View attachment 252496

Though you have ignored my question and therefore feel no need to answer yours I will extend the grace and answer your questions to me.

Works of the law

Grace Through faith

Amen?

Yes, Amen.

Which do you wish? Cancel the works, and Have God's Grace, or
Cancel His Grace, and have the work?

Works of the law

You are presenting a rather weak false dichotomy.

In order to fall under the God's Grace we must come to it on His terms not our own.

Amen?