No, you left off the "by the faith of Christ", part. It is saying that through the faith OF Christ, those who become saved are imputed with Christ's faith which gives unto them faith IN Christ, through which, they are made righteous - it is only because of Christ's faith that initiates and completes it - it is all God's work, none man's.
Hebrews 6
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Jn 12:32
AMP Bible 32 And I, if and when I am lifted up from the earth [on the cross], will draw all people to Myself [Gentiles, as well as Jews].”
American Standard Version (ASV) 32 And I, if I be lifted up [p]from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) 32 As for me, when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself
English Standard Version (ESV) 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV) 32 And I, if I were [l]lift up from the earth, will draw [m]all men unto me.
King James Version (KJV) 32 And I, if I were [l]lift up from the earth, will draw [m]all men unto me.
New American Standard Bible (NASB) 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
New International Version (NIV) 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
Mounce Reverse Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE)
All 10 versions say """ALL""" will be drawn.
AMP Bible 32 And I, if and when I am lifted up from the earth [on the cross], will draw all people to Myself [Gentiles, as well as Jews].”
American Standard Version (ASV) 32 And I, if I be lifted up [p]from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) 32 As for me, when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself
English Standard Version (ESV) 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV) 32 And I, if I were [l]lift up from the earth, will draw [m]all men unto me.
King James Version (KJV) 32 And I, if I were [l]lift up from the earth, will draw [m]all men unto me.
New American Standard Bible (NASB) 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
New International Version (NIV) 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
Mounce Reverse Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE)
All 10 versions say """ALL""" will be drawn.
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So who then are the "all" ? The "all' are all those the Father gave to Christ:
[Jhn 6:44 KJV]
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[Jhn 6:37-39 KJV]
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
The "all" cannot be other than those the Father specifically gave to Christ - it does not apply to everyone ever born.
[Jhn 6:44 KJV]
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[Jhn 6:37-39 KJV]
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
The "all" cannot be other than those the Father specifically gave to Christ - it does not apply to everyone ever born.
Every post death & resurrection person, will via Christ's Holy Spirit be drawn/called. Only those that place their FAITH in Christ's sin atoning payment will be saved.
By grace are you saved thru faith.
One more point: Measure
American Tract Society Bible Dictionary - Measure:
See SHEKELS, TALENT, BATH, or Ephah, EPHAH, etc.\par
Rom 12:3 (a) All do not have the same mental capacity. Some are more well developed mentally than others. The Lord is telling us by this figure that He is able to supply the graces of Heaven to every person according to their capacity.
(MY NOTE: The 10 versions I shared earlier stated """ALL/EVERYONE""" receives a measure of Faith. Bible Dictionary above teaches everyone doesn't receive the same size portion. Everyone receives a large enough portion to access God's GIFT of Grace. God so loved the world He GAVE His Son (Jn 3:16)
Tit 2:11 For the [remarkable, undeserved] grace of God that [a]brings salvation has appeared to all men.
(MY NOTE: God's GIFT of grace has a name > Jesus the Christ.)
Here's another biblical from Greek to English defining Rom 12:3 use specifically
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3358: μέτρον
μέτρον, μέτρου, τό, the Sept. chiefly for מִדָּה (cf. μήτηρ), measure;
2. determined extent, portion measured off, measure or limit: with a genitive of the thing received, Romans 12:3
So, we have a bible dictionary & a Lexicon define measure (in Rom 12:3 context) as a portion. Again EVERYBODY receives a FAITH portion. Sadly not EVERYONE will act on it. Best wishes, JJ.
By grace are you saved thru faith.
One more point: Measure
American Tract Society Bible Dictionary - Measure:
See SHEKELS, TALENT, BATH, or Ephah, EPHAH, etc.\par
Rom 12:3 (a) All do not have the same mental capacity. Some are more well developed mentally than others. The Lord is telling us by this figure that He is able to supply the graces of Heaven to every person according to their capacity.
(MY NOTE: The 10 versions I shared earlier stated """ALL/EVERYONE""" receives a measure of Faith. Bible Dictionary above teaches everyone doesn't receive the same size portion. Everyone receives a large enough portion to access God's GIFT of Grace. God so loved the world He GAVE His Son (Jn 3:16)
Tit 2:11 For the [remarkable, undeserved] grace of God that [a]brings salvation has appeared to all men.
(MY NOTE: God's GIFT of grace has a name > Jesus the Christ.)
Here's another biblical from Greek to English defining Rom 12:3 use specifically
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3358: μέτρον
μέτρον, μέτρου, τό, the Sept. chiefly for מִדָּה (cf. μήτηρ), measure;
2. determined extent, portion measured off, measure or limit: with a genitive of the thing received, Romans 12:3
So, we have a bible dictionary & a Lexicon define measure (in Rom 12:3 context) as a portion. Again EVERYBODY receives a FAITH portion. Sadly not EVERYONE will act on it. Best wishes, JJ.
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Yes you are not reading it wrongly . in the garden of Eden ,Eve deceived of the devil. And man acted in ignorance to commit sin . The birth of Jesus,death and resurrection testifies for those that through faith believe in the Lord.
In 1 Samuel 2:25(KJV) If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him: but if a man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD would slay them. The son's of Eli who were priests for Israel fell aside after knowledge of the righteousness yet lured by the passions and affections of this life .
In 1 Samuel 2:25(KJV) If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him: but if a man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD would slay them. The son's of Eli who were priests for Israel fell aside after knowledge of the righteousness yet lured by the passions and affections of this life .
Do we remain in the faith against our will or does God provide everything to sustain us but it is our responsibility to use what God provides?
We must abide in the vine as that is where the life giving nutrition we need is found.
John 15:1-6
English Standard Version
I Am the True Vine
15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
We must abide in the vine as that is where the life giving nutrition we need is found.
John 15:1-6
English Standard Version
I Am the True Vine
15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
You can tell when someone does not have the Gifts of the Spirit.
Edification is IMPUTED from the Holy Spirit.
Knowledge is Knowledge, not Edification.
Wisdom is how much Knowledge one retains and applies to their own life.
but Edification is for the Spirit Body inside of us Believers.
I was raised Southern Baptist myself and those boys don't got a clue at all about the Holy Spirit!
Edification is IMPUTED from the Holy Spirit.
Knowledge is Knowledge, not Edification.
Wisdom is how much Knowledge one retains and applies to their own life.
but Edification is for the Spirit Body inside of us Believers.
I was raised Southern Baptist myself and those boys don't got a clue at all about the Holy Spirit!
Its a consistent warning and repeated theme given to the church in the epistles of the apostles as it’s been given to man since they were deceived by lies in Eden
“And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.”
Matthew 24:11 KJV
“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37 KJV
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20
“And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.”
Acts 11:26 KJV
first it’s made clear what the word of God is what God said of mans salvation is made known in the gospel and it’s sent to all people to believe and be saved or reject and be without . we’re then Warned repeatedly by the apostles not to follow anything but the truth because many will come claiming it’s not for you and they know “ the real truth “listen to them and then you’ll know the truth just like Jesus was saying in John 8 other s come to say “ don’t listen to his word it is t really for you , I’ll teach you the real way listen to me and you’ll be alright what he said won’t work for you hear me tell you of life instead “
“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
2 Timothy 4:1-4 KJV
Or peters warning notice how the doctrine affects the people who fall for it just like paul said it turns mknds away from Gods word that saves to fables and inventions of man
“But there were false prophets also among the people,( see how the ot false prophets destroyed the people by making up thier own ways and calling it Gods when he didn’t say it it’s why oeter envoked the example)
even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
2 Peter 2:1-2 KJV
what I mean to say is amen your quote here is part of a consistent true theme of the Bible since God told Adam the truth then Satan said “ that’s not true , believe what I’m telling you instead , I’ll explain it to you, for you , trust me “ false teachers and prophets have the same effect adam didn’t need to be saved until he cursed himself to death by disobeying God all he ever had to do was trust what God said and he’s live and be blessed
It is eye opening how many Christian’s find reason to avoid this
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
about when you realize there are many false doctrines out there in the church now days it makes perfect sense why so many say “ jesus teachings and words and commands aren’t for Christian’s , they don’t apply to the church “
just like in Eden God spoke the truth of eternal life for all to hear believe
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
Bit then man needs to believe Gods word and live when this happens we need to reject it like Adam didn’t
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”
1 Timothy 4:1 KJV
That’s exactly what eve and Adam did they heard and knew the truth and were blessed but then they heard a lie that contradicted the truth and they followed the seducing spirits idea into sin and death same thing now
“And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.”
Matthew 24:11 KJV
“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37 KJV
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20
“And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.”
Acts 11:26 KJV
first it’s made clear what the word of God is what God said of mans salvation is made known in the gospel and it’s sent to all people to believe and be saved or reject and be without . we’re then Warned repeatedly by the apostles not to follow anything but the truth because many will come claiming it’s not for you and they know “ the real truth “listen to them and then you’ll know the truth just like Jesus was saying in John 8 other s come to say “ don’t listen to his word it is t really for you , I’ll teach you the real way listen to me and you’ll be alright what he said won’t work for you hear me tell you of life instead “
“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
2 Timothy 4:1-4 KJV
Or peters warning notice how the doctrine affects the people who fall for it just like paul said it turns mknds away from Gods word that saves to fables and inventions of man
“But there were false prophets also among the people,( see how the ot false prophets destroyed the people by making up thier own ways and calling it Gods when he didn’t say it it’s why oeter envoked the example)
even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
2 Peter 2:1-2 KJV
what I mean to say is amen your quote here is part of a consistent true theme of the Bible since God told Adam the truth then Satan said “ that’s not true , believe what I’m telling you instead , I’ll explain it to you, for you , trust me “ false teachers and prophets have the same effect adam didn’t need to be saved until he cursed himself to death by disobeying God all he ever had to do was trust what God said and he’s live and be blessed
It is eye opening how many Christian’s find reason to avoid this
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
about when you realize there are many false doctrines out there in the church now days it makes perfect sense why so many say “ jesus teachings and words and commands aren’t for Christian’s , they don’t apply to the church “
just like in Eden God spoke the truth of eternal life for all to hear believe
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
Bit then man needs to believe Gods word and live when this happens we need to reject it like Adam didn’t
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”
1 Timothy 4:1 KJV
That’s exactly what eve and Adam did they heard and knew the truth and were blessed but then they heard a lie that contradicted the truth and they followed the seducing spirits idea into sin and death same thing now
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ALL that the Father gives is within the age of grace where His Spirit goes forth to draw all of mankind. As Romans 1:20 says that all are without excuse. By His foreknowledge the elect are those He has forseen to be in the Book of Life.
John 12:32 ESV
32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
Whoever is an invitation to all. So why do some not accept His invite?
John 3:16 ESV
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
God wishes that none shall persish so why doesn't God elect all? God could do that as it says it is His desire but there must be a barrier even He to some capacity leaves in place. The free will of mankind.
2 Peter 3:9 ESV
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
John 12:32 ESV
32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
Whoever is an invitation to all. So why do some not accept His invite?
John 3:16 ESV
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
God wishes that none shall persish so why doesn't God elect all? God could do that as it says it is His desire but there must be a barrier even He to some capacity leaves in place. The free will of mankind.
2 Peter 3:9 ESV
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
I'm not southern baptist but to say they do not have a clue about the Holy Spirit is wrong. How would they have no clue in less you are saying they do not have the Spirit?
I understand that some charismatic's teach that without the so called 2nd baptism they do not operate in the power of sign gifts.
Some Pentecostals teach that tongues are evidence of having the Spirit.
In my discernment both of these teachings are wrong. But can you list the reasons why they have no clue about the Spirit?
I understand that some charismatic's teach that without the so called 2nd baptism they do not operate in the power of sign gifts.
Some Pentecostals teach that tongues are evidence of having the Spirit.
In my discernment both of these teachings are wrong. But can you list the reasons why they have no clue about the Spirit?
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In all fairness, I would be giving the same answers as the rest of the Baptist had my family not moved out of State. So, I have nothing but love for my Baptist Brothers and Sisters. But then I was forced to learn a different view. Don't like it either. But, I took the Doctrines, applied the truths from the personal interpretation, and things are so much more clearer.
But, there are things taught, that is 100% Scripture, concerning the Holy Spirit that you don't get in the Baptist Teaching. They have a specific view. Much has to do with Cessation. So, they never ventured to understand Continuation. I know both Views + Gifts and what I said cannot be refuted. It can be disagreed with, but not disproven.
But, there are things taught, that is 100% Scripture, concerning the Holy Spirit that you don't get in the Baptist Teaching. They have a specific view. Much has to do with Cessation. So, they never ventured to understand Continuation. I know both Views + Gifts and what I said cannot be refuted. It can be disagreed with, but not disproven.
Not to pick on anyone here but this is a Cessation Answer: Yes, we are edified by God that we remain in the faith - edification is how the elect are taught, and which, all of the elect will follow - the non-elect will not do so.
Why is that Cessation?
Because, they understand that Edification is still working, even if they believe most Gifts have stopped, so they need to define it somehow.
So they define it like text book answers that disconnect reality.
This answer says edification is education.
that is the physical body.
they say the Holy Spirit is effecting the physical body.
but the only body that matters for Christians is the SPIRITUAL BODY. Paul, killed his flesh daily to let his spirit body live.
A Continuist View understands the Holy Spirit is making the Spirit Body of our Beings Stronger in God!
Why is that Cessation?
Because, they understand that Edification is still working, even if they believe most Gifts have stopped, so they need to define it somehow.
So they define it like text book answers that disconnect reality.
This answer says edification is education.
that is the physical body.
they say the Holy Spirit is effecting the physical body.
but the only body that matters for Christians is the SPIRITUAL BODY. Paul, killed his flesh daily to let his spirit body live.
A Continuist View understands the Holy Spirit is making the Spirit Body of our Beings Stronger in God!
Cessationism is an umbrella term where it has a spectrum from complete ceasing to as God wills.
A complete continuation view can be disproven due to the fact of scripture commands for example an apostle or prophet which no one meets the bar to hold either position.
Also charismatics teach that everyone can operate in signs and wonders when in fact the very definition of gift is that the Spirit chooses who receives what.
Then you have the historical use of tongues which was not gibberish but other languages like Pentecost. It only became gibberish after a failed attempt to evangelize other nations.
A complete continuation view can be disproven due to the fact of scripture commands for example an apostle or prophet which no one meets the bar to hold either position.
Also charismatics teach that everyone can operate in signs and wonders when in fact the very definition of gift is that the Spirit chooses who receives what.
Then you have the historical use of tongues which was not gibberish but other languages like Pentecost. It only became gibberish after a failed attempt to evangelize other nations.