Navigating church culture

[Ben77]

Hello from the UK.

I still consider myself as being a new Christian and I have some questions/observations about navigating church culture.
I guess I'll just dive right in with my questions.

1. I have been part of a Hillsong church where I thought I had a group of friends. I left that church because I didn't agree with the doctrine and quickly realised that those people were not in fact my friends. Just people who happened to meet on a Sunday. I have since joined a more traditional church.
How do I know if the bonds I'm building within a church community are genuine - i.e. that they're deeper than "I happen to just see him/her on a Sunday"?

2. When I was at the Hillsong church I met up with friends a few times outside of a group, including some female friends.
One of the older people suggested that I don't meet with females outside of a group setting unless I'm serious about engaging in a romantic relationship with them.
What's that all about?
Can a bloke and a lass not just meet up for a coffee without someone in church immediately thinking "sex"?

3. Tithing. A big subject.
"We need a regular income to help maintain our building".
Personally I couldn't care about the building. God has gifted us with the internet, through which someone with a bit of forward thinking could set up a church with minimal overheads and the potential of reaching many millions.
And more to the point: I don't see how tithing applies to modern day Christians?

I'm sure I'll think of more questions as this thread develops, but thanks for now

 

[birdie]

Thanks Ben77 for your questions. I don't personally know anything about the doctrine of the Hillsong Church but finding out that organized groups have faulty doctrine is a common problem these days and perhaps mostly has been. The scripture verse that is supposedly right in the middle of the Bible is: "It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man." One good thing about God is that he can always be trusted, and, he cares about us! First, of all, keep in touch with him. Talk to him about anything on your mind as you read the Bible. It is a bit sad that humans, even possible Christians, are not always so many things that we might wish that they were, but God is an anchor and he will provide what you need. If he knows that you need help or care or fellowship from a friend, he will provide it. Also, you can ask him for fulfillment of your needs. In relation to organized religious groups, so often true believers find themselves, as scripture puts it, "As unknown, and yet well known". I wish you the best in your endeavor to go God's way. Perhaps try just caring about all people generally, as I'm sure you already do, and just trust God to care about you. Share the good news of Jesus if you find a way, and ask God to bring you into fellowship or friendship with edifying believers if you feel that need. Of course, this is a faith prayer, trusting that God will provide.

As far as female friends go, I am not an expert. I would trust your gut feelings about it, but remember to go God's way in all things if possible. 1 Corinthians chapter 7 might help if a relationship is serious, but it sounds like you are just talking about being friends with others, which seems fine to me as well.

Tithing does not seem to be required under the new covenant.

 

[Nehemiah6]

How do I know if the bonds I'm building within a church community are genuine - i.e. that they're deeper than "I happen to just see him/her on a Sunday"?

Have you heard of "A friend in need is a friend indeed"? It is only when you are having serious problems that your true friends will manifest themselves.

Can a bloke and a lass not just meet up for a coffee without someone in church immediately thinking "sex"?

Sure. In fact that is no one else's business.

And more to the point: I don't see how tithing applies to modern day Christians?

No tithing does not apply, and a building is not the highest priority. But God does expect Christian giving.

 

[p_rehbein]

Personally I couldn't care about the building. God has gifted us with the internet, through which someone with a bit of forward thinking could set up a church with minimal overheads and the potential of reaching many millions.
And more to the point: I don't see how tithing applies to modern day Christians?

So, who pays the payment on the building, property?
Who pays the heating/cooling bill?
Who pays the water bill?
Who pays for maintenance and upkeep?
Who pays for special Programs such as supporting Missionaries, children's programs and such?
Who pays for the Hymnals, and the Copywrite fees for using said Hymnals?
Who pays the Pastor?

Clearly, you don't..........

IF you don't care about a church having a building to meet in, why did you go searching for one to join?

Why didn't you just look on line for a worship group and stick with it?

Guess you just expect OTHERS to fund the needs of a congregation, and you just hang around feeling all pious and such, huh?

Sad...........truly sad

 

[ResidentAlien]

1. How do I know if the bonds I'm building within a church community are genuine - i.e. that they're deeper than "I happen to just see him/her on a Sunday"?

The same way you know if someone is a true friend in any walk of life. Friendship is give and take. If you always find yourself on the giving end, you're not dealing with a true friend.

2. When I was at the Hillsong church I met up with friends a few times outside of a group, including some female friends.
One of the older people suggested that I don't meet with females outside of a group setting unless I'm serious about engaging in a romantic relationship with them.
What's that all about?
Can a bloke and a lass not just meet up for a coffee without someone in church immediately thinking "sex"?

I believe so; but it really just depends on your level of self-control. If you're easily tempted then it's probably not a good idea. That said, Hillsong leaders are known for their double standards. They lay heavy burdens on people which they aren't willing to bear themselves. In other words, they preach purity but practice impurity.

3. Tithing. A big subject.
"We need a regular income to help maintain our building".
Personally I couldn't care about the building. God has gifted us with the internet, through which someone with a bit of forward thinking could set up a church with minimal overheads and the potential of reaching many millions.
And more to the point: I don't see how tithing applies to modern day Christians?

It doesn't. Ever wonder how Hillsong and all the other megachurches afford all their huge salaries and stuff? Tithing of course. If tithing stopped, megachurches would disappear overnight. Personally, I think buildings are one of the least important aspects of a church body. I do think fellowship in person with people is the best way to go though. Find a church that teaches freewill giving. When people are told the truth they will gladly give to keep the lights on and won't have to have their arms twisted to do it.

 

[Dino246]

So, who pays the payment on the building, property?
Who pays the heating/cooling bill?
Who pays the water bill?
Who pays for maintenance and upkeep?
Who pays for special Programs such as supporting Missionaries, children's programs and such?
Who pays for the Hymnals, and the Copywrite fees for using said Hymnals?
Who pays the Pastor?

Clearly, you don't..........

IF you don't care about a church having a building to meet in, why did you go searching for one to join?

Why didn't you just look on line for a worship group and stick with it?

Guess you just expect OTHERS to fund the needs of a congregation, and you just hang around feeling all pious and such, huh?

Sad...........truly sad

Respectfully, you are confusing tithing with giving.

Tithing is the mandatory submission of a tenth of one’s increase in goods to support the Levites, priests, and the poor. It is not required of Christians.

Giving, which is strongly encouraged of Christians, is voluntary both in kind and in amount.

Giving to support the practical needs of your local fellowship’s meeting hall and any paid staff is thoroughly appropriate. It still isn’t’ tithing’.

 

[Ben77]

So, who pays the payment on the building, property?
Who pays the heating/cooling bill?
Who pays the water bill?
Who pays for maintenance and upkeep?
Who pays for special Programs such as supporting Missionaries, children's programs and such?
Who pays for the Hymnals, and the Copywrite fees for using said Hymnals?
Who pays the Pastor?

Clearly, you don't..........

IF you don't care about a church having a building to meet in, why did you go searching for one to join?

Why didn't you just look on line for a worship group and stick with it?

Guess you just expect OTHERS to fund the needs of a congregation, and you just hang around feeling all pious and such, huh?

Sad...........truly sad

Thank you for your post.

I actually don't go to meet at their building every Sunday. So please don't assume.
I watch the Sunday evening service live over YouTube,

 

[Wordwalker]

Hello from the UK.

I still consider myself as being a new Christian and I have some questions/observations about navigating church culture.
I guess I'll just dive right in with my questions.

1. I have been part of a Hillsong church where I thought I had a group of friends. I left that church because I didn't agree with the doctrine and quickly realised that those people were not in fact my friends. Just people who happened to meet on a Sunday. I have since joined a more traditional church.
How do I know if the bonds I'm building within a church community are genuine - i.e. that they're deeper than "I happen to just see him/her on a Sunday"?

2. When I was at the Hillsong church I met up with friends a few times outside of a group, including some female friends.
One of the older people suggested that I don't meet with females outside of a group setting unless I'm serious about engaging in a romantic relationship with them.
What's that all about?
Can a bloke and a lass not just meet up for a coffee without someone in church immediately thinking "sex"?

3. Tithing. A big subject.
"We need a regular income to help maintain our building".
Personally I couldn't care about the building. God has gifted us with the internet, through which someone with a bit of forward thinking could set up a church with minimal overheads and the potential of reaching many millions.
And more to the point: I don't see how tithing applies to modern day Christians?

I'm sure I'll think of more questions as this thread develops, but thanks for now

I recently heard a radio preacher who warned against unity in church and said that doctrine is what we should strive to find in common… In America, that’s pretty much how it works.
Buildings are not only unnecessary but scripture actually tells us that God doesn’t dwell in buildings.
Tithe is only an active practice if there is a biblically-mandated temple in use. No such thing today.
I spent 35 years in ‘the church’ and saying ‘I’m a Christian,’ to learn that it’s just about what label you wear.
I walk closer to God than I ever have, I understand Him better since I left the church and stopped calling myself a Christian.
Your perspectives on your experience reveal, to me anyway, a level of wisdom and discernment not usually evident in new believers.
If you seek God, you’ll find Him quicker if you intentionally strive to meet alone with Him… ‘Church’ is just varying degrees of knowledge and fellowship— it’s not focused on biblical worship. Not being harsh, that’s just reality.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I don't see how tithing applies to modern day Christians?

This may be helpful for your important question:

Facts On Tithing...

Please Be Encouraged and Edified...

 

[wattie]

Hello from the UK.

I still consider myself as being a new Christian and I have some questions/observations about navigating church culture.
I guess I'll just dive right in with my questions.

1. I have been part of a Hillsong church where I thought I had a group of friends. I left that church because I didn't agree with the doctrine and quickly realised that those people were not in fact my friends. Just people who happened to meet on a Sunday. I have since joined a more traditional church.
How do I know if the bonds I'm building within a church community are genuine - i.e. that they're deeper than "I happen to just see him/her on a Sunday"?

2. When I was at the Hillsong church I met up with friends a few times outside of a group, including some female friends.
One of the older people suggested that I don't meet with females outside of a group setting unless I'm serious about engaging in a romantic relationship with them.
What's that all about?
Can a bloke and a lass not just meet up for a coffee without someone in church immediately thinking "sex"?

3. Tithing. A big subject.
"We need a regular income to help maintain our building".
Personally I couldn't care about the building. God has gifted us with the internet, through which someone with a bit of forward thinking could set up a church with minimal overheads and the potential of reaching many millions.
And more to the point: I don't see how tithing applies to modern day Christians?

I'm sure I'll think of more questions as this thread develops, but thanks for now

If you invite people from church to meet outside of service time and they are keen, that is a good way to build friendships. Or if there are Bible studies during the week and outreaches you can be involved with.. and people are keen for you to join.


But I think if they are grounded in scripture then you would find they are more humble and ready to fellowship anytime.

 

[Lanolin]

1. hillsongs a bit of a cult, you can look up cults in Cultwatch website
2. I dont know what thats about, I guess they want to control their women, which is very cultlike
3. again, part of the cult

Read your Bible, if a so called church doesnt line up with what the Holy spirit shows you in the Bible, dont go there. God wants you to be free, not in bondage.

I recommend leaving off organised church for a while and just reading the Bible to get totally grounded in scripture first. Then God will give you wisdom and discernement about where to go and who to fellowship with.

 

[Ben77]

1. hillsongs a bit of a cult, you can look up cults in Cultwatch website
2. I dont know what thats about, I guess they want to control their women, which is very cultlike
3. again, part of the cult

Read your Bible, if a so called church doesnt line up with what the Holy spirit shows you in the Bible, dont go there. God wants you to be free, not in bondage.

I recommend leaving off organised church for a while and just reading the Bible to get totally grounded in scripture first. Then God will give you wisdom and discernement about where to go and who to fellowship with.

I have just read this on Cult Watch and it is SPOT ON!

How Pastors Get Rich – CULTWATCH

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

Hello from the UK.

I still consider myself as being a new Christian and I have some questions/observations about navigating church culture.
I guess I'll just dive right in with my questions.

1. I have been part of a Hillsong church where I thought I had a group of friends. I left that church because I didn't agree with the doctrine and quickly realised that those people were not in fact my friends. Just people who happened to meet on a Sunday. I have since joined a more traditional church.
How do I know if the bonds I'm building within a church community are genuine - i.e. that they're deeper than "I happen to just see him/her on a Sunday"?

2. When I was at the Hillsong church I met up with friends a few times outside of a group, including some female friends.
One of the older people suggested that I don't meet with females outside of a group setting unless I'm serious about engaging in a romantic relationship with them.
What's that all about?
Can a bloke and a lass not just meet up for a coffee without someone in church immediately thinking "sex"?

3. Tithing. A big subject.
"We need a regular income to help maintain our building".
Personally I couldn't care about the building. God has gifted us with the internet, through which someone with a bit of forward thinking could set up a church with minimal overheads and the potential of reaching many millions.
And more to the point: I don't see how tithing applies to modern day Christians?

I'm sure I'll think of more questions as this thread develops, but thanks for now

1. Did you join a small group in Hillsong Church? That's where deeper fellowship takes place in my large church. By the way, with what doctrines did you disagree?
2. Why do you need to listen to people's advice with which you disagree?
3. If you study tithing in the Bible, you will see that Jesus approved of it. Having a building in which people can worship is important in cooler climates. Why do you disagree with tithing for modern-day Christians? When my late wife and I got married, we decided to tithe the net amount of our income. It was tight sometimes, but God has blessed that decision many times. We were married 56 years before she died.

 

[Karlon]

Hello from the UK.

I still consider myself as being a new Christian and I have some questions/observations about navigating church culture.
I guess I'll just dive right in with my questions.

1. I have been part of a Hillsong church where I thought I had a group of friends. I left that church because I didn't agree with the doctrine and quickly realised that those people were not in fact my friends. Just people who happened to meet on a Sunday. I have since joined a more traditional church.
How do I know if the bonds I'm building within a church community are genuine - i.e. that they're deeper than "I happen to just see him/her on a Sunday"?

2. When I was at the Hillsong church I met up with friends a few times outside of a group, including some female friends.
One of the older people suggested that I don't meet with females outside of a group setting unless I'm serious about engaging in a romantic relationship with them.
What's that all about?
Can a bloke and a lass not just meet up for a coffee without someone in church immediately thinking "sex"?

3. Tithing. A big subject.
"We need a regular income to help maintain our building".
Personally I couldn't care about the building. God has gifted us with the internet, through which someone with a bit of forward thinking could set up a church with minimal overheads and the potential of reaching many millions.
And more to the point: I don't see how tithing applies to modern day Christians?

I'm sure I'll think of more questions as this thread develops, but thanks for now

1st of all, all christians should ask God what church they should join. do your research as in asking trusted friends, check church policy & doctrine & use all your sense to make your final decision. the #2 issue: "don't meet with females unless you are seriously interested in 1"? WOW!!! who voted that person boss. i would never say that to anyone. sounds like a controlling person. #3 there Bible teaches in 1 of the Corinthian books, "let each man giveth as he purposeth in his heart" some people still believe in 10% tithing, others don't. in all honesty, a church is a business & building like any other, people work there & they should get paid: maintenance people as in plowing, mowing, then you have to clean the place, set-ups & take-downs, secretarial work, accounting, pay the pastor, etc.

 

[ResidentAlien]

3. If you study tithing in the Bible, you will see that Jesus approved of it. Having a building in which people can worship is important in cooler climates. Why do you disagree with tithing for modern-day Christians? When my late wife and I got married, we decided to tithe the net amount of our income. It was tight sometimes, but God has blessed that decision many times. We were married 56 years before she died.

You make it sound like we're obligated to Jesus to tithe. Yes, He spoke about tithing to people who were under the old covenant; usually to condemn them.

In all your years as a pastor and Bible student, you must have formed an opinion about my following questions. Jesus appointed apostles to carry on after Him, to teach and preach the kingdom of God and the way of truth. The Holy Spirit inspired them in establishing churches and writing doctrine for them. Where in this doctrine did the Holy Spirit instruct believers to tithe? Where does it say we're obligated? If people want to tithe that's there business; but where does it say we're under obligation? You think people won't freely give if they aren't coerced? If they won't, then that assembly shouldn't, and probably won't, continue.

Can you help me out with this?

 

[p_rehbein]

Respectfully, you are confusing tithing with giving.

Tithing is the mandatory submission of a tenth of one’s increase in goods to support the Levites, priests, and the poor. It is not required of Christians.

Giving, which is strongly encouraged of Christians, is voluntary both in kind and in amount.

Giving to support the practical needs of your local fellowship’s meeting hall and any paid staff is thoroughly appropriate. It still isn’t’ tithing’.

Respectfully, you are confusing Old Testament tithing under the Law with New Covenant tithing which is done with love from the heart.........10% is NOT required under the New Covenant, it's kinda a guideline......

 

[p_rehbein]

(excerpt)

The argument always comes—they do this with the Sabbath, the Holy Days, tithing and many, many other things—if the commandment is not specifically repeated identically in the New Testament then 'we are not bound to do it.' We will see that it is an absolute false assumption.
Let's first of all establish the New Testament as the true Word of God, and the Scriptures of God, which Paul does in Rom. 16; these are his final comments with his last canonization just before he died.
Romans 16:25: "Now, to Him Who has the power to establish you, according to my Gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ… [He's talking of God the Father] …according to the revelation of the mystery… [that we're going to be the sons of God at the resurrection] …that in past ages has been kept secret; but now is made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures…" (vs 25-26). This is not the Old Testament prophets; these are the "…prophetic Scriptures…" that has to do with the New Testament, and I'll prove that to you in just a minute.

(here)

Paul, Corinthians and Tithing - CBCG

 

[Beckie]

Thank you for your post.

I actually don't go to meet at their building every Sunday. So please don't assume.
I watch the Sunday evening service live over YouTube,

IT cost the church group to put the message on You tube.
Seems the regulars here should support the site.

 

[Dino246]

Respectfully, you are confusing Old Testament tithing under the Law with New Covenant tithing which is done with love from the heart.........10% is NOT required under the New Covenant, it's kinda a guideline......

Please show the Scripture where ‘tithing’ is discussed within the context of the new covenant.

 

[Dino246]

(excerpt)

“The argument always comes—they do this with the Sabbath, the Holy Days, tithing and many, many other things—if the commandment is not specifically repeated identically in the New Testament then 'we are not bound to do it.' We will see that it is an absolute false assumption”.

It’s not an assumption at all, but a conclusion drawn directly from Scripture. Christians are not under the Law, period. We are under the covenant in Christ’s blood.