First Thread: ☕🙂👍📖 Should the Bible Be the Text Book?
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So Angela, what are the qualifications of a pastor?
I might be getting mail, but I do recognize that just because a college or university issues a diploma, does not in any way indicate that God called or ordained a person.
My former pastor recommended me to a correspondence course from an american bible college, but being on social assistance and paying monthly fees and postage and currency change makes it quite challenging.
I might be getting mail, but I do recognize that just because a college or university issues a diploma, does not in any way indicate that God called or ordained a person.
My former pastor recommended me to a correspondence course from an american bible college, but being on social assistance and paying monthly fees and postage and currency change makes it quite challenging.
Of course there is a free alternative way to study the Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided,
that I have learned from for 33 years now, and am still learning - guess I will graduate
from earthly learning when I depart to Heavenly Glory:
visit: Berean Bible Society
Amen.
that I have learned from for 33 years now, and am still learning - guess I will graduate
from earthly learning when I depart to Heavenly Glory:
visit: Berean Bible Society
Amen.
Are you able to work, even part time? CSBS is mostly online. You need a computer & internet. A lot of the courses are hybrid, so you interact with the other students & teachers. There is a huge library you will have access to. Do you live in the West?
You would not be earning a diploma. You would be earning a degree which is accredited by the top religious education body in North America. ATS Associated Theological Schools. To be accredited you have to prove the seminary is at the top of its field. Things like all the professors have PhDs or DMins. You have to take so many on campus courses. The curriculums have to be inspected to make sure they confirm and are equivalent to the other degree granting institutes, everything from Harvard, Southern Baptist Seminaries to Western Seminary in Portland. Here is a booklet you can read.
https://www.ats.edu/files/galleries/self-study-handbook.pdf
It really is important to go to an accredited seminary. A diploma from a correspond school is worth nothing, I had the choice when I got my MDiv if going to a secular university, as my degree is accepted by all universities in North America. Or, I could go to a Theological School, also accredited to get my PhD in Theology!
You would not be earning a diploma. You would be earning a degree which is accredited by the top religious education body in North America. ATS Associated Theological Schools. To be accredited you have to prove the seminary is at the top of its field. Things like all the professors have PhDs or DMins. You have to take so many on campus courses. The curriculums have to be inspected to make sure they confirm and are equivalent to the other degree granting institutes, everything from Harvard, Southern Baptist Seminaries to Western Seminary in Portland. Here is a booklet you can read.
https://www.ats.edu/files/galleries/self-study-handbook.pdf
It really is important to go to an accredited seminary. A diploma from a correspond school is worth nothing, I had the choice when I got my MDiv if going to a secular university, as my degree is accepted by all universities in North America. Or, I could go to a Theological School, also accredited to get my PhD in Theology!
There really are no Biblical qualifications for a pastor, which you already know! Anyone can hang out their shingle, start a church with no training, no understanding of the Bible or relationship with Christ!
But seriously, without the skills and information Seminary training gives you, the chances of being successful are slim and none.
You can also have a ragged piece of paper from a diploma mill. In fact, the assistant pastor in my church was like that when we first arrived. He had a BA from a local Bible college. I looked it up, and it basically was a study what you want, and then we'll give you a piece of paper so you can get hired by a church,
This guy was great with teens and children. But he couldn't preach at all. He couldn't even speak English well, which is why he had to go the paper mill route. He also had no initiative, rarely followed through on things, including making time to talk to the senior pastor, who was trying to mentor him as part of his training to stay as Associate Pastor. He couldn't do it! He didn't have the organizational or other skills, and he was let go. Our new associate pastor for kids & teens is dynamic, exciting and a leader. She has a theology degree, undergrad, from King's College in Edmonton, affiliated with the University of Alberta. She is registered with Carey college in Vancouver, affiliated with UBC, and is our denominational school, taking courses towards a master's degree.
I personally knew I needed so much more knowledge & wisdom to be in ministry. I needed role models, courses which taught skills, like preaching, teaching & counseling. And Greek & Hebrew! But you don't have to take a MDiv, there are lots of other degrees, with no languages, which are also useful in leading a church. God has not personally called me to be a pastor. My goal was to write, and specifically about Disability Theology as I am disabled. I run a FB group for my illness, with 3700 people. I use all the leadership and decision making skills I learned in my degree. Do I need a MDiv to run a health FB group? Of course not! But, for writing books, it is better to have solid academic qualifications. My father was a university professor for 33 years. I watched the whole process of him getting his degrees, and becoming an outstanding teaching member of the University of Alberta. He did need his degrees.
I don't need them, but I never would have learned all the invaluable things I picked up in my formal studies. It filled a need in me, but also a calling of God to learn his word, and to study to show myself an approved worker. It also shows accountability. And God does expect us to be accountable. Accreditation also shows accountability, too. If you don't want accountability, then don't bother with a degree, continue with your diploma plans.
The problem with a paper mill diploma is that you will never be able to advance. No institution is going to accept it as accredited. Or, perhaps they are accredited by a lower level body. That would be fine, too! But why shoot for the bottom, instead of the top? My education honours God. It honours his plan for my life. God has opened doors of leadership within the disabled community.
Are you sick that you cannot work? I was on disability, I'm now retired. That helped me pay my costs. I can't physically work. But a good portion of the online students were full time pastors or bivocational. Of course, that is between you & God.
I'd just really like to see you get a quality education to serve God. You have a heart and a calling, do your best, not the minimum. Of course, it may not be right for you. I will never regret the years I have taken to properly study the Bible, and to get to know God better, which I had tried, but could not do on my own!
But seriously, without the skills and information Seminary training gives you, the chances of being successful are slim and none.
You can also have a ragged piece of paper from a diploma mill. In fact, the assistant pastor in my church was like that when we first arrived. He had a BA from a local Bible college. I looked it up, and it basically was a study what you want, and then we'll give you a piece of paper so you can get hired by a church,
This guy was great with teens and children. But he couldn't preach at all. He couldn't even speak English well, which is why he had to go the paper mill route. He also had no initiative, rarely followed through on things, including making time to talk to the senior pastor, who was trying to mentor him as part of his training to stay as Associate Pastor. He couldn't do it! He didn't have the organizational or other skills, and he was let go. Our new associate pastor for kids & teens is dynamic, exciting and a leader. She has a theology degree, undergrad, from King's College in Edmonton, affiliated with the University of Alberta. She is registered with Carey college in Vancouver, affiliated with UBC, and is our denominational school, taking courses towards a master's degree.
I personally knew I needed so much more knowledge & wisdom to be in ministry. I needed role models, courses which taught skills, like preaching, teaching & counseling. And Greek & Hebrew! But you don't have to take a MDiv, there are lots of other degrees, with no languages, which are also useful in leading a church. God has not personally called me to be a pastor. My goal was to write, and specifically about Disability Theology as I am disabled. I run a FB group for my illness, with 3700 people. I use all the leadership and decision making skills I learned in my degree. Do I need a MDiv to run a health FB group? Of course not! But, for writing books, it is better to have solid academic qualifications. My father was a university professor for 33 years. I watched the whole process of him getting his degrees, and becoming an outstanding teaching member of the University of Alberta. He did need his degrees.
I don't need them, but I never would have learned all the invaluable things I picked up in my formal studies. It filled a need in me, but also a calling of God to learn his word, and to study to show myself an approved worker. It also shows accountability. And God does expect us to be accountable. Accreditation also shows accountability, too. If you don't want accountability, then don't bother with a degree, continue with your diploma plans.
The problem with a paper mill diploma is that you will never be able to advance. No institution is going to accept it as accredited. Or, perhaps they are accredited by a lower level body. That would be fine, too! But why shoot for the bottom, instead of the top? My education honours God. It honours his plan for my life. God has opened doors of leadership within the disabled community.
Are you sick that you cannot work? I was on disability, I'm now retired. That helped me pay my costs. I can't physically work. But a good portion of the online students were full time pastors or bivocational. Of course, that is between you & God.
I'd just really like to see you get a quality education to serve God. You have a heart and a calling, do your best, not the minimum. Of course, it may not be right for you. I will never regret the years I have taken to properly study the Bible, and to get to know God better, which I had tried, but could not do on my own!
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Angela, I have a great respect for your desire to serve God regardless of your physical limitations.
I too have watched many young people dreaming of becoming a pastor, and properly equipped would have become an excellent pastor or preacher, but their lack of proper education (either by school or a lengthy internship under an excellent tutor) resulted in failure.
My pastor has PhD's in theology and psychology. He also has extensive missionary field experience. He started his ministry as teen Sunday School teacher at 16 years old. It took him less than a year to realize just how ill equipped he was without an theological college education. When we have a young person claiming to feel a call to ministry, he asks that person to prepare a sermon. He then shows him one of his sermons on the same topic. After that lesson, he prepares the young person for entry into a Christian college, and helps him enroll. The entire congregation prays for the student, and supports his needs throughout his education.
I am an engineer by education, a communications systems manager by trade, and an Adult Sunday School teacher by experience. Without my science education (physics), my career would have fizzled out in my radio repair shop. There is nothing that will equip you for success like a college education. Every time God has called me to a task, he has provided me the resources to accomplish it. Those resources have always included knowledge and understanding.
I'll leave you with this. No one can become a pastor or preacher by reading the Bible!
I too have watched many young people dreaming of becoming a pastor, and properly equipped would have become an excellent pastor or preacher, but their lack of proper education (either by school or a lengthy internship under an excellent tutor) resulted in failure.
My pastor has PhD's in theology and psychology. He also has extensive missionary field experience. He started his ministry as teen Sunday School teacher at 16 years old. It took him less than a year to realize just how ill equipped he was without an theological college education. When we have a young person claiming to feel a call to ministry, he asks that person to prepare a sermon. He then shows him one of his sermons on the same topic. After that lesson, he prepares the young person for entry into a Christian college, and helps him enroll. The entire congregation prays for the student, and supports his needs throughout his education.
I am an engineer by education, a communications systems manager by trade, and an Adult Sunday School teacher by experience. Without my science education (physics), my career would have fizzled out in my radio repair shop. There is nothing that will equip you for success like a college education. Every time God has called me to a task, he has provided me the resources to accomplish it. Those resources have always included knowledge and understanding.
I'll leave you with this. No one can become a pastor or preacher by reading the Bible!
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Here's a few brief examples that won't require a full sermon.
ESV Removes and changes the Blood of Christ
Removal of Hell from Some Translations
Some Remove Christ's Preexistence
On Division
ESV Removes and changes the Blood of Christ
Removal of Hell from Some Translations
Some Remove Christ's Preexistence
On Division
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This is a recognized college of study, and you are taking a course which should get you a job, when you graduate. That is a good thing. I was a teacher, I have a teaching certificate, and taught until Rheumatoid Arthritis kicked me to the curb. But, because I had the degree, I was able to get on disability when I became ill, which I stayed on till I retired. Not my first choice, nor even the last - to be on disability and in pain, but God used it to open doors to ministry.
I had thought you were speaking about getting some kind of diploma in being a pastor. That is my misunderstanding. Certainly, you will need a job to live. We stayed in some hotels this winter, visiting my dying mom in Edmonton. Literally, one entire hotel, with a recognizable chain name, was run by Chinese people. Many of the service clerks barely spoke English. To find a native speaking Canadian in a hotel, may be very special in the near future, it seems. So good luck with your training. Or, if your idea is to get a job to support you, while you attend some kind of Bible school, then I stand by my previous posts. At any rate, your future is decided the next few years, and I pray God will guide and lead you. I googled that college, and you are going to have to stand very strong as a Christian. It seems like it is bending over backwards to be the maximum "woke" allowable! I found the same thing in education, back in the 1980s, when I did my teaching certificate. If you are ever wondering why the educational system in Canada is such a mess, it started a long time ago.
As for different Bible saying different things in the same verse, not so much. Sometimes, that comes from different numbering systems. For example, some people include the title as the first verse. The Hebrews did that. Other times, verses are spurious, and left out. Although mostly a footnote makes note of that, or square brackets are used in some version. Other times, there are legitimate differences of interpretations of words. Or, later manuscripts are corrupt, and add many verses and/or words. KJV is a good example of that. Erasmus, a Catholic priest did most of the translating of Greek and the KJV committee used his translations. He used 7 corrupted, 15th century Greek manuscripts. In places, even he could see the Vulgate was wrong, but the Catholic approval committee, said use the accept, corrupted version, or they would not give him the imprimatur, in other words, Catholic church approval. The KJV has been a solid version for hundreds of years, but there are a lot of mistakes in it. If you study the history of manuscripts, you can learn all of these things, I have. But, if someone reads the KJV and it gives meaning, the gospel is still the same. I personally can't read KJV English, never liked Shakespeare, either. I can read 6 languages, but none of them is 16th century early modern English, cause I have never studied it. I've read many, many different translations, and also the original languages. I'll take the original languages over anything translated into any language. But, I prefer a Bible in my heart language, which is modern English.
I was reading the NET, because the footnotes are incredible. But, I am in the early stages of Macular Degeneration, going blind, and I finally switched to a different version with larger print, and better contrast between the dark letters and the white paper. Sad I have to change Bible because I can't see. But I will keep up with my Bible reading, until such day as I am forced to go to audio bible. Sigh!
I had thought you were speaking about getting some kind of diploma in being a pastor. That is my misunderstanding. Certainly, you will need a job to live. We stayed in some hotels this winter, visiting my dying mom in Edmonton. Literally, one entire hotel, with a recognizable chain name, was run by Chinese people. Many of the service clerks barely spoke English. To find a native speaking Canadian in a hotel, may be very special in the near future, it seems. So good luck with your training. Or, if your idea is to get a job to support you, while you attend some kind of Bible school, then I stand by my previous posts. At any rate, your future is decided the next few years, and I pray God will guide and lead you. I googled that college, and you are going to have to stand very strong as a Christian. It seems like it is bending over backwards to be the maximum "woke" allowable! I found the same thing in education, back in the 1980s, when I did my teaching certificate. If you are ever wondering why the educational system in Canada is such a mess, it started a long time ago.
As for different Bible saying different things in the same verse, not so much. Sometimes, that comes from different numbering systems. For example, some people include the title as the first verse. The Hebrews did that. Other times, verses are spurious, and left out. Although mostly a footnote makes note of that, or square brackets are used in some version. Other times, there are legitimate differences of interpretations of words. Or, later manuscripts are corrupt, and add many verses and/or words. KJV is a good example of that. Erasmus, a Catholic priest did most of the translating of Greek and the KJV committee used his translations. He used 7 corrupted, 15th century Greek manuscripts. In places, even he could see the Vulgate was wrong, but the Catholic approval committee, said use the accept, corrupted version, or they would not give him the imprimatur, in other words, Catholic church approval. The KJV has been a solid version for hundreds of years, but there are a lot of mistakes in it. If you study the history of manuscripts, you can learn all of these things, I have. But, if someone reads the KJV and it gives meaning, the gospel is still the same. I personally can't read KJV English, never liked Shakespeare, either. I can read 6 languages, but none of them is 16th century early modern English, cause I have never studied it. I've read many, many different translations, and also the original languages. I'll take the original languages over anything translated into any language. But, I prefer a Bible in my heart language, which is modern English.
I was reading the NET, because the footnotes are incredible. But, I am in the early stages of Macular Degeneration, going blind, and I finally switched to a different version with larger print, and better contrast between the dark letters and the white paper. Sad I have to change Bible because I can't see. But I will keep up with my Bible reading, until such day as I am forced to go to audio bible. Sigh!
Our Bible defines many words whose meaning has changed over the years.
One is the simple word "Repent."
When the street preachers go around teaching works as their requirements for salvation, they always redefine it to mean "turn from your sins.". What's their name, those popular hyper Calvinist who go through the ten commandments and sprinkle in a little bit of Jesus ' sacrifice at the end for garnish does this constantly.
They MUST know that it is not defined that way since God is without sin, yet repents more than any other. The Bible uses that word often, yet most people think salvation is by works rather than grace because of false prophets/ preachers.
The best thing that I did after highschool was to do word studies on key terms using a concordance and Bible.
One is the simple word "Repent."
When the street preachers go around teaching works as their requirements for salvation, they always redefine it to mean "turn from your sins.". What's their name, those popular hyper Calvinist who go through the ten commandments and sprinkle in a little bit of Jesus ' sacrifice at the end for garnish does this constantly.
They MUST know that it is not defined that way since God is without sin, yet repents more than any other. The Bible uses that word often, yet most people think salvation is by works rather than grace because of false prophets/ preachers.
The best thing that I did after highschool was to do word studies on key terms using a concordance and Bible.
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HealthAndHappiness, post: 5098486, member: 317081"]Our Bible defines many words whose meaning has changed over the years.
One is the simple word "Repent."
When the street preachers go around teaching works as their requirements for salvation, they always redefine it to mean "turn from your sins.". What's their name, those popular hyper Calvinist who go through the ten commandments and sprinkle in a little bit of Jesus ' sacrifice at the end for garnish does this constantly.
They MUST know that it is not defined that way since God is without sin, yet repents more than any other. The Bible uses that word often, yet most people think salvation is by works rather than grace because of false prophets/ preachers.
The best thing that I did after highschool was to do word studies on key terms using a concordance and Bible....
To continue on this thought with an example, we look to Jonah 3:9
"“Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?”
It's important to look at the context of the usage to see what the person is changing their mind about, reconsidering, or changing. In this case, it is God Who has fierce anger towards Nineveh. Did God repent?
Yes He did.
Which demolishes two major false doctrines that many preachers convince the masses of.
A. Repentance is Not defined as turning from your sins. God here is the One Who repented and He never sins.
B. Fierce anger is NOT always a sin. It certainly is Not here.
Sometimes anger is a completely appropriate emotion. We should not live in anger, but the Bible never teaches a Polly Anna attitude of Nothing but continual joy. God proves this many times. Some will falsely think that the Old Testament God was fierce, judgemental and angry, while Jesus was always smiling like one of the Jesus movies portrayed.
That is a false perception of our Lord.
The Bible must be read all the way through and be interpreted in context. Extra biblical commentaries and devotional books are no substitute for the raw word of God He provided us in our own language .
One is the simple word "Repent."
When the street preachers go around teaching works as their requirements for salvation, they always redefine it to mean "turn from your sins.". What's their name, those popular hyper Calvinist who go through the ten commandments and sprinkle in a little bit of Jesus ' sacrifice at the end for garnish does this constantly.
They MUST know that it is not defined that way since God is without sin, yet repents more than any other. The Bible uses that word often, yet most people think salvation is by works rather than grace because of false prophets/ preachers.
The best thing that I did after highschool was to do word studies on key terms using a concordance and Bible....
To continue on this thought with an example, we look to Jonah 3:9
"“Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?”
It's important to look at the context of the usage to see what the person is changing their mind about, reconsidering, or changing. In this case, it is God Who has fierce anger towards Nineveh. Did God repent?
Yes He did.
Which demolishes two major false doctrines that many preachers convince the masses of.
A. Repentance is Not defined as turning from your sins. God here is the One Who repented and He never sins.
B. Fierce anger is NOT always a sin. It certainly is Not here.
Sometimes anger is a completely appropriate emotion. We should not live in anger, but the Bible never teaches a Polly Anna attitude of Nothing but continual joy. God proves this many times. Some will falsely think that the Old Testament God was fierce, judgemental and angry, while Jesus was always smiling like one of the Jesus movies portrayed.
That is a false perception of our Lord.
The Bible must be read all the way through and be interpreted in context. Extra biblical commentaries and devotional books are no substitute for the raw word of God He provided us in our own language .
Well Folks ---this is a great plug in for attending a Seminary School and getting many degrees so you are well prepared to go out into the world and stand on a Pulpit and spout out what you learned in Seminary school about God ---and His Word -----
Here is my concern about all that is said here -----it is self driven ---and man driven ----------not one mention of being called by God to enter into the Ministry to have your heart and ears and mind open to grasp any teaching of His Word -----not one mention of following the direction of the Holy Spirit when studying the Word ----
This comment here -----
You have access to models who are kind and experienced people, with high levels of degrees in accredited institutions.------
I say
There is much talk about having a degree in this post -----Well hate to say it but degrees are only good in this world -----you see in this world degrees help you climb the ladder of success ----In God's world Degrees mean nothing nor does climbing up the ladder get you success ------In God's World you need to climb down the Ladder to be successful ----
Saying this Statement here in the Post --Even Jesus prepared himself before he began his ministry.
I say
To me shows---- lack of understanding ---trying to lump in Jesus preparation for His Ministry to a man driven Seminary preparation into Ministry ---- Jesus was fulfilling prophecy when He was preparing for His Ministry ----Humans are fulfilling their own want by going to a Man made Seminary school ------when you have no idea if the instructors are Born Again people or not -----if they have not the Holy Spirit then your getting Man's ideas only -----Many call themselves Christians but their hearts are far from God ------
All Born Again People are True Ministers -----The Holy Spirit is their Teacher not Man -----No amount of Seminary School or Degrees or Human instruction will ever give you what you need to understand a Spiritual God or His Word ---and everything you need to know to do Spiritual counseling is the Scripture ----there is not one thing that we humans go through emotionally or physically that God doesn't cover in His word -----and give instruction to overcome ------
This comment here ----
It gives you tools to counsel people, to preach, teach and care for God's people.
I say --------the only tool needed to Counsel people and care for God's People and Preach and Teach the truth of God's word is the Holy Spirit----- no Seminary needed in my view -------
So I say -------if one goes to a Seminary -----make sure your instructors and all who teach you are Holy Spirit indwelled true Christians -----so you get taught the Spiritual Truth of God's Word -----Not what man thinks about God and His Word ---Who is Jesus by the way ------
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