Hebrews 6
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John 12:31-32
"men" is not in the actual verse. The "all" then only pertains to those whom God gave to Jesus, otherwise, these verses would contradict each other which is impossible. To "draw" means to drag off. So, to paraphrase if I may, it is saying that "when I am lifted up, I will draw to myself ALL whom the God gave to me".
wut
God DRAWS us with loving kindness.
He is not taking hostages .
The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee
with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
wut
God DRAWS us with loving kindness.
He is not taking hostages .
The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee
with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Well, maybe He is. My take is that it is saying to take them by force. To drag off doesn't negate it also being of lovingkindness, in fact,
it establishes it, if doing so would be to their benefit, which it would be.
helkō (Key)
- to draw, drag off
- metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel
The people that the author is talking to had confidence/assurance that, if held onto, would result in partaking in Christ. How could that possibly allow for unsaved people to be a part of the group he is talking with?
The overall point is that he is talking to believers, which you seemed to have already agreed he is edifying.
This
Hebrews 3:12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God
was a warning to
Hebrews 3:12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God
whom could have partaken in Christ by holding on to the confidence they had at that point.
Then it follows that the unsaved cannot depart from Christ, since they do not have Him/are not with Him, no?
So by "departing" he wasn't talking to the unsaved.
If not then in what way are the unsaved with Christ?
We're talking about departing from Christ Himself, which Hebrews seems to warn
Hebrews 3:1Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus
that they can do
Then it's a good idea to keep your faith, since God's power guards you through it, and not
Hebrews 3:12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God
I think it's exactly the opposite
If someone did not last until the end, it could still be true that if they lasted to the end, they would partake in Christ. However, "as" implies that they are lasting until the end, which is mutually exclusive with not lasting
in the same way that "as I eat a cheese burger" is mutually exclusive with, at that moment, eating a taco
By "salvation" do you mean going to the resurrection of life?
John 5:28Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.e
it is an unnecessary dilemma to call this man's power
John 15:5I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing.
I believe we are
Romans 6:6We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.
before Christ sets us
Romans 6:7For anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
Afterward, we are free to
Romans 2:7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.
or to
21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
they were clearly "saved" meaning they had the Holy Spirit
And Paul clearly warned "you" meaning them, against practicing such things, as well as earlier in the chapter, that they would fall from grace if they got circumcised.
Sorry, I think I understand now
that the steadfastness confirms the partaking in Christ
It still affirms that they had
Hebrews 3:14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
just not necessarily such that will last until the end, therefore whatever promises are for "belief"/confidence in itself (or with some other condition other than holding assurance until the end) I think could apply here regardless of endurance.
Such as, imo, Galatians 3:26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 4:6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
I would therefore still agree that scriptures such as Galatians 5:19-21 are still relevant to believers as warnings.
However, believe the scriptures over anything I say and I apologize for any errors.
It is bad hermeneutics to make a doctrine out of one verse or passage. You should probably have 20 or 30 verses which say something similar. I don't see that. Could this not be a warning?
"What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Romans 8:31-39
"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us.We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. ." 2 Cor 5:17-21
"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal,the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory." Eph 1:11-14
"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this worldand of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a]and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph 2:1-10
I can post many more, if you need!
So, Christ makes us dead people alive. God makes us alive in Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit. But somehow, we have the power to make ourselves dead again? Because if someone is not in Christ, they are dead in their sins! That's just not the gospel. You just can't lose the life that Christ has given you, in him!
And if someone walks away from Christ, were they really ever his? John covers this in his first epistle.
"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1 John 2:19
I feel sad for people who take one short passage like in Hebrews 6 and make a defeatist doctrine based on their own works. Instead, read the rest of the verses that confirm we cannot lose our salvation! Although, repentance is part of that. But really knowing Christ means you want to repent and follow the King of Kings every day for the rest of eternity!
"What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Romans 8:31-39
"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us.We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. ." 2 Cor 5:17-21
"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal,the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory." Eph 1:11-14
"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this worldand of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a]and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph 2:1-10
I can post many more, if you need!
So, Christ makes us dead people alive. God makes us alive in Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit. But somehow, we have the power to make ourselves dead again? Because if someone is not in Christ, they are dead in their sins! That's just not the gospel. You just can't lose the life that Christ has given you, in him!
And if someone walks away from Christ, were they really ever his? John covers this in his first epistle.
"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1 John 2:19
I feel sad for people who take one short passage like in Hebrews 6 and make a defeatist doctrine based on their own works. Instead, read the rest of the verses that confirm we cannot lose our salvation! Although, repentance is part of that. But really knowing Christ means you want to repent and follow the King of Kings every day for the rest of eternity!
I too was raised S Bapt. Every Sunay was a salvation message because teaching wasn't important, only salvation. When I joined the Navy, I believed OSAS near as much as I believed in Jesus as my savior. I remember telling my shipmates, how I could have two buttons before me and pushing the one could kill every person in the world and still be saved. Then I could push the other and kill myself and then go be with Jesus forever in Heaven.
Then I got into the scriptures and when I read Heb 6: 4-6 I was devastated and wept before the Lord for three days. Then I remember asking the Lord; If it's not OSAS, what is it? I read the new testament through many times with just that one question in my mind. Scripture is spiritually discerned and the natural man is not able to be a partaker of the Holy Spirit, so that this passage in Heb 6 can only be referring to one who was born of the Spirit! I don't know how many times I've been told that they never were saved. This is just changing scripture to prove one's own doctrine at the expense of the truth!
I found the answer to be that we must keep the faith unto the end. A study on stumbling vs falling is incredibly illuminating to those who seek the Lord's truth.
There are so many scriptures that teach this that I am unable to understand how anyone can believe OSAS and actually know the scriptures.
Scripture teaches us that Calvin knows nothing yet as he ought to know. And again, Let God be true and every man a liar.
Gal 5: 4 "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace." The Lord is not lying to us here or trying to scare us into obedience! Remember, let God be true and every man a liar!
How many babes in Christ allow their faith in Jesus to wither and die, thinking all the while that they're safe and secure no matter what they do; like blaspheming the Spirit of the Lord or by denying Jesus before man so that Jesus will deny him before our heavenly Father or even by rewriting the book of Revelations while leaving out selected portions, sadly!
If you really want the truth, then see Is 28: 9, 10 KJV "Whom shall he teach knowledge? And whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little." Then your knowledge and doctrines will slowly change as more and more illumination and revelation of the Spirit are added unto you. If not, then something is wrong and it's not the Lord!!!
Then I got into the scriptures and when I read Heb 6: 4-6 I was devastated and wept before the Lord for three days. Then I remember asking the Lord; If it's not OSAS, what is it? I read the new testament through many times with just that one question in my mind. Scripture is spiritually discerned and the natural man is not able to be a partaker of the Holy Spirit, so that this passage in Heb 6 can only be referring to one who was born of the Spirit! I don't know how many times I've been told that they never were saved. This is just changing scripture to prove one's own doctrine at the expense of the truth!
I found the answer to be that we must keep the faith unto the end. A study on stumbling vs falling is incredibly illuminating to those who seek the Lord's truth.
There are so many scriptures that teach this that I am unable to understand how anyone can believe OSAS and actually know the scriptures.
Scripture teaches us that Calvin knows nothing yet as he ought to know. And again, Let God be true and every man a liar.
Gal 5: 4 "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace." The Lord is not lying to us here or trying to scare us into obedience! Remember, let God be true and every man a liar!
How many babes in Christ allow their faith in Jesus to wither and die, thinking all the while that they're safe and secure no matter what they do; like blaspheming the Spirit of the Lord or by denying Jesus before man so that Jesus will deny him before our heavenly Father or even by rewriting the book of Revelations while leaving out selected portions, sadly!
If you really want the truth, then see Is 28: 9, 10 KJV "Whom shall he teach knowledge? And whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little." Then your knowledge and doctrines will slowly change as more and more illumination and revelation of the Spirit are added unto you. If not, then something is wrong and it's not the Lord!!!
Precious friend, appreciate your valuable information, but respectfully disagree,
since one young gentleman teaching on u-tube years ago declared he "had found
TEN Scriptures, refuting God's Eternal Salvation."
However, upon further research/investigation, we found most out of context,
misunderstood, or not even addressed to the Body Of Christ, so the results
follow below, According To All The Scriptures, and because of:
Christ's ALL-Sufficient Work On The Cross!
We have these ( over 12-Dozen Plain and Clear ) Scriptures, for
all of The Body Of Christ, Today, Under God's Amazing Grace:
God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ!
God's Eternal Assurance!
God's Eternal Life Insurance!
Yes, well said = that is one of several rules for understanding Scripture, while
studying God's Word Of Truth:
Bible study rules!
Please Be Very Richly Edified and Encouraged In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).
Amen.
Scripture DOESN'T conflict with scripture. Once saved always saved (OSAS) is a false doctrine not supported by scripture, unless of course you choose to ignore certain ones that are clearly contrary to osas.
The base scriptures, those cited in Hebrews 6 in conjunction with Hebrews 10 do not support osas.
The example recorded in Acts 8 regarding Simon the sorcerer, who believed, was baptized, and thereby saved, also does not support osas, as he was told to repent or perish. Nor does the book of Revelation in the comments regarding the seven churches of Asia, as further confirmed by Rev 2:10 wherein it says you must be faithful unto death which implies what the outcome is if not faithful unto death. You can lose your salvation. When you're initially saved, it's your past sins that are forgiven not your future ones that have yet to be committed.
Acts 2:38
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
If you take a text out of context what you have left is a con.
The context is that elementary doctrines of Christ have been settled ... let's go on with the Lord.
There's no other way you can't through repentance of dead works and faith in God unto salvation again, it is a once off life experience, it can't be repeated, it's in the past. There is no more sacrifice for sin.
Judas Iscariot ticked all of those boxes, he had been enlightened, he had tasted, he had even become a partaker of the Holy Spirit when he went out with the others and cast out devils and healed the sick. But none of those things add up to being saved, being born again.
When you've been out evangelising you come across so many who are within a whisker of being saved, you've convinced them, you saw their eyes light up. they want what you are telling them ... but they baulk at that all important matter of receiving the Lord Jesus into their hearts. And anon they oft times become your most bitter opponents.
This scripture is telling us not to look for another way to be justified. Everything else we do in order to justify ourselves put's our Lord and His cross to open shame. Keep going back to the cross, better still never leave it.
You can't take one or two obscure scriptures and use them to negate the whole weight of the bible.
Folks who are not 100% certain of their salvation will continue to backslide. Don't be double minded with the Lord.
OSAS is a caricature, a strawman set up to be knocked down.
Why don't folks man up and outright deny God's word to His face, His word is the free gift of eternal life to everyone who believes the gospel.
Have you received eternal life? when will it end?
To fall away from grace is not to lose salvation 90 % of western Christians have fallen from grace, They are saved but they no longer walk in the joy of their salvation, their prayer life is practically non existent, they have ceased to praise the Lord. Their bible has become a dust collector ... they no longer like to meet with the bretren.
Belief, which entails obedience and on going faithfulness unto death, not falling away unto unbelief as was warned of in Heb 6 to the newly converted Jews. Salvation isn't osas and must be worked upon to secure it, being faithful unto death.
Phil 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Don't sweat any "errors" - because we are all still learning, we all still make them.
Regarding Galatians 3:26, and not being quite sure of your current point of view, or even if you have factored this aspect in before, I will just say that that out faith "in" Christ is given to us as a gift from God - it is by the faith "of"" Christ that it is so: Christ's faith; that is, it was from Christ's faith(fulness,) obedience, and complete success in the mission appointed to Him by the Father, is that which brought forth our faith. We know true faith will not be given to everyone because only those who become born again have it through the fruit of the Spirit. So then, faith accompanies salvation; salvation does not accompany faith.
Please observe:
[Heb 3:1-2 KJV] 1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses [was faithful] in all his house.
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
So, to say, "by faith in Christ Jesus" is also at the same time to say, "faith given by God".
(I realize the following will probably be confusing as writing is not my forte, and this doctrine is kind of confusing anyway, so please bear with me, try to read it carefully, and should you have questions or disagreement let me know and I will try to clarify.)
Regarding verse Galatians 5:21, in it we are informed, "they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." Notice the word "inherit" - it is not there by accident nor casually, and it is extremely important: an inheritance only comes with a will and by specifically being named in it as a beneficiary. Since being a beneficiary of God's will is that alone which makes someone an heir (of the kingdom), then those who are not in God's will are not heirs and cannot receive its inheritance. And consequently, those who do the things we are warned not to do in 5:21, are those whom God did not place into His will and of those who do not "inherit". Since Christ was its testator, once He died, (which death the Father accepted) no additional names could be added, and it was sealed. The names He put into it though, were names chosen from before the foundation of the world - the elect (see Eph 1:4 following).
The sum is that those who do the things of 5:21 will not inherit the kingdom because they weren't in God's will. Those who do not do them are because they were in God's will. Whether they do them or they don't, is result, not cause.
Sorry if I've needlessly rehashed something that you are already familiar with, but I wanted to be very clear regarding my understanding of the word "inherit" and how it was used and applies to the verse.
[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[Heb 9:15-17 KJV]
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[Gal 3:18 KJV] 18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise.
[Eph 1:11 KJV] 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
[Col 1:12 KJV] 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[1Pe 1:4 KJV] 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
You forgot to include the verse that follows it:
[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
Don't think so:
[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[Phl 1:6 KJV]
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
My point is that The Love Of Jesus was demonstrated on the Cross and in the Vicarious suffering He endured.
Yet the love was given while we are sinners, and many rejected the love, died, and are in hell.
So, if a saved believer were to denounce Jesus and fell away thereby doing, would he be still saved? This is exactly what Hebrews 6 is warning of. If you denounce the Lord, you put him to an open shame! Are you still saved? According to you, you are! Better think that through again.