Ukraine the bad guy?

[iamsoandso]

Russia warned many times that the expansion of NATO posed an existential threat to them ... so it was a pre-emptive move to protect their sovereignty against NATO expansion and the American desire to dismantle Russian power and influence.

Historically though after the breakup of the SU Russia and Ukraine were two separate nations and so Russia has no claim to ruler-ship over another sovereign nation anymore than Texas has the right to claim rule over Mexico because Texas and Mexico were once the same nation. Ukraine has ask to be admitted to NATO but NATO has not admitted them so far. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations

 

[gb9]

Historically though after the breakup of the SU Russia and Ukraine were two separate nations and so Russia has no claim to ruler-ship over another sovereign nation anymore than Texas has the right to claim rule over Mexico because Texas and Mexico were once the same nation. Ukraine has ask to be admitted to NATO but NATO has not admitted them so far. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations

and there lies the issue.

while russia has no right to tell another country what to do, they do not want nato missiles in ukraine, any more than the u s would want russian missiles in mexico.

if mexico would enter into a treaty with russia, and with the chance of weapons being pointed at us, how should this country respond??

 

[iamsoandso]

and there lies the issue.

while russia has no right to tell another country what to do, they do not want nato missiles in ukraine, any more than the u s would want russian missiles in mexico.

if mexico would enter into a treaty with russia, and with the chance of weapons being pointed at us, how should this country respond??

Let me ask you the same sort of thinking ,,, "if Texas attempts to succeed from the United States(and other states along with it) will you defend the United States position to stop them from it the same as Russia having the right to force Ukraine to remain loyal to Russia's authority?"

 

[gb9]

Let me ask you the same sort of thinking ,,, "if Texas attempts to succeed from the United States(and other states along with it) will you defend the United States position to stop them from it the same as Russia having the right to force Ukraine to remain loyal to Russia's authority?"

good question- the donbass and luhansk region in eastern ukraine announced they wanted to leave ukraine and join russia. ( they are in east ukraine, and speak mostly russian).

other than the n a t o thing, annexing this area was another reason putin gave for attacking ukraine ( though he used that as an excuse to launch larger attacks deeper into the country).

so, me, being a proud southerner, who has a family tree in the deep south, growing up hearing stories of what the union army really did, am not the best to ask about secession.

gen, sherman marched through my state and brought equality.

he burned everything to the ground , so no one had anything..

 

[SomeDisciple]

Let me ask you the same sort of thinking ,,, "if Texas attempts to succeed from the United States(and other states along with it) will you defend the United States position to stop them from it the same as Russia having the right to force Ukraine to remain loyal to Russia's authority?"

It depends. Why does Texas secede? Is there a maidan-esqe coup?

People need to stop ignoring Maidan- that's really at the heart of the matter. Even more than NATO expansion. Far more.

 

[iamsoandso]

It depends. Why does Texas secede? Is there a maidan-esqe coup?

People need to stop ignoring Maidan- that's really at the heart of the matter. Even more than NATO expansion. Far more.

Yes "winter on fire" the documentary...

 

[cv5]

Cleanest dirty shirt?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666366252267327488

 

[cv5]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666186380987228169

 

[cv5]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666433878289186817

 

[BearerOfTheMorningStar]

Wicked Russia continues to make up all sorts of lies about blowing up the dam and causing a massive environmental and human catastrophe. As is typical with Russia, none of this had to happen in the first place if Russia were not totally evil and waged this war for total lies. Remember everything Russia basically has said in this war is a lie and even the premise of the war is based in lies.. This is the pattern you can expect from Satan's servants the Russians. Praise Jesus who fights against the wicked liars of Russia by the strength of his own hand. Praise Jesus!

 

[SomeDisciple]

^^^^^^^
The way you're bringing Jesus' name into this, I sure hope you're right, lest you end up like Hannaniah.

 

[cv5]

Let me ask you the same sort of thinking ,,, "if Texas attempts to succeed from the United States(and other states along with it) will you defend the United States position to stop them from it the same as Russia having the right to force Ukraine to remain loyal to Russia's authority?"

I am sure that you are aware of the fact that it is perfectly legal for Texas to succeed. Anytime they want.
Yes there are complex entanglements. But they can do so regardless.

 

[cv5]

Wicked Russia continues to make up all sorts of lies about blowing up the dam and causing a massive environmental and human catastrophe. As is typical with Russia, none of this had to happen in the first place if Russia were not totally evil and waged this war for total lies. Remember everything Russia basically has said in this war is a lie and even the premise of the war is based in lies.. This is the pattern you can expect from Satan's servants the Russians. Praise Jesus who fights against the wicked liars of Russia by the strength of his own hand. Praise Jesus!

They aren't lying about winning. So at least there is that.

 

[ZNP]

They aren't lying about winning. So at least there is that.

Well I don't think there is any debate about who is losing, the Ukrainian people.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Yes "winter on fire" the documentary...

If you only want a revolutionary-biased feel-good movie; then, sure. The producer of this film has said it wasn't meant to be an objective journalistic piece.

 

[BearerOfTheMorningStar]

Unholy Russia declared war against Jesus, the living Truth and Love and Light. Unholy Russia led by Wicked Putin are insane and wicked and brutish like their father the Devil, they are only ever full of Lies, and they fought God openly how they rejoiced and showed their whole plan of empire at the beginning of their doom which the Lord God set against them. Jesus fights Unholy Russia like a strong man, yea our God is strong, destroying Satan's wicked corrupted principalities like wicked Russia in all ways from the very bottom of their wicked spiritual principality to the very top. You are all witnesses that we prayed our Lord Jesus open up Holy Revolution upon Russia, and lo, in but a matter of days it came to pass. Therefore PRAISE JESUS! If you will not praise Jesus for his goodness in destroying the wicked pawns of Satan and saving the innocent and defending the Truth against the Lies, and sanctifying his holy name in the blood of the wicked, well then that is your shame you sided with wrong master. As for me I shall never stop praising my King's name as he destroys wicked Satan's children from off the face of the Earth. I shall shine the power of the Morning Star that reveals all matters and heralds the dawn and smite the nations with the terrible Rod Which Breaks Nations while singing against the Devil's children the praises of Jesus. Russia lost from the moment they sided with Satan, watch how they will be destroyed those cursed excommunicated wicked heathens. Let all the heathens in all the world know this is what the Living God does to all his enemies. Praise Jesus!

 

[cv5]

Well I don't think there is any debate about who is losing, the Ukrainian people.

Thats right. Fighting the Russkies to the last Ukrainian was the NATO plan from way way back.

 

[ZNP]

Thats right. Fighting the Russkies to the last Ukrainian was the NATO plan from way way back.

When the Nazi's figure that one out it will be one more country that the US has endeared itself to.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Well I don't think there is any debate about who is losing, the Ukrainian people.

And the German people, and the American people.

I didn't even realize it before today, but people in Germany are being fined for explaining the invasion in any other way besides "Putin is an evil cartoon-villain". At least two peace activists have been fined $900 for "justifying aggression". How dare anyone take an objective approach discussing the war?

 

[cv5]

@iamsoandso .....Tecumseh Sherman was wiser than most of his peers.
Smedley Butler had an epiphany in his latter years. And he was right of course.

"If forced to choose between the penitentiary and the White House for four years, I would say the penitentiary, thank you."

"You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will."

"In our Country... one class of men makes war and leaves another to fight it out."

"It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell."

"The scenes on this field would have cured anybody of war. "

-William Tecumseh Sherman

=============================================================================================================

"For a great many years, as a soldier, I had a suspicion that war was a racket; not until I retired to civil life did I fully realize it."

"War is a racket. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives."

"War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses."

"War is a racket. It always has been... A few profit - and the many pay. But there is a way to stop it. You can't end it by disarmament conferences. You can't eliminate it by peace parleys at Geneva. Well-meaning but impractical groups can't wipe it out by resolutions. It can be smashed effectively only by taking the profit out of war."

"I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in."

"There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights."

"War is just a racket... I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else."

-Smedley Butler