How can you talk to someone about issues between you, like a parent or a spouse, who you know has no issue lying to you?

[Tararose]

how about the old fashioned way; when around a lot of people & the liar lies, tell everyone the truth that the person just lied, is a pathological liar, has been lying for years & he or she, needs to be correct right on the spot without hesitation!. liars can be highly conditioned to response from a developement in early childhood & never grow out of it. immediate correction is something that has traveled the "wind race" & got lost. remember the verse in which Jesus says tell the brother a correction, if he won't listen gather another & if he still won't listen, have nothing to do with him? & finally, pray for that person.

I agree that confrontation is the first thing on the list, but like the original post said, what if whenever they are caught out, they will lie their way out of that, unless the evidence is unavoidable and in those situations they always "humbly" admit that one thing, and agree with you, saying it is true they slipped up and have a weakness in that area but are doing their best and so on but this was a moment of weakness and they will do their best to ensure it doesn't happen again blah bah blah, and to all onlookers it is then you who seem to be unreasonable and unforgiving, when you know full well this is simply an act and the behaviour will continue until they are caught again in the future. Some people are very good at lying sadly, and any righteous anger or upset in the face of someone who is very good at acting contrite and humble, really goes against them.

Again I ask - What if you cant walk away from them and its your wife? or your husband? What if there isn't a reason for divorce, and you have to be with them, sleep with them and be intimate with them because scripture demands it?
What if its a parent and you are too young to pull away from their authority yet. You have to put up with it day in and day out, never being able to believe a word they say?

I think that is so so hard to imagine living with. And so so hard to counsel anyone in such a tricky situation if taking to them doesn't work, or if trying to out them back fires, and then just makes the situation worse at home. Yeah I still don't know what to advise someone in that situation and I do know for certain that there are people in just such a situation sadly. Whose daily life is one of gas-lighting, second guessing and never being able to take anything as real or true from someone so close to them.

 

[Karlon]

I agree that confrontation is the first thing on the list, but like the original post said, what if whenever they are caught out, they will lie their way out of that, unless the evidence is unavoidable and in those situations they always "humbly" admit that one thing, and agree with you, saying it is true they slipped up and have a weakness in that area but are doing their best and so on but this was a moment of weakness and they will do their best to ensure it doesn't happen again blah bah blah, and to all onlookers it is then you who seem to be unreasonable and unforgiving, when you know full well this is simply an act and the behaviour will continue until they are caught again in the future. Some people are very good at lying sadly, and any righteous anger or upset in the face of someone who is very good at acting contrite and humble, really goes against them.

Again I ask - What if you cant walk away from them and its your wife? or your husband? What if there isn't a reason for divorce, and you have to be with them, sleep with them and be intimate with them because scripture demands it?
What if its a parent and you are too young to pull away from their authority yet. You have to put up with it day in and day out, never being able to believe a word they say?

I think that is so so hard to imagine living with. And so so hard to counsel anyone in such a tricky situation if taking to them doesn't work, or if trying to out them back fires, and then just makes the situation worse at home. Yeah I still don't know what to advise someone in that situation and I do know for certain that there are people in just such a situation sadly. Whose daily life is one of gas-lighting, second guessing and never being able to take anything as real or true from someone so close to them.

i wouldn't say scripture demands it. the Bible teaches all that's proper in a marriage. counselors, pastors, trusting friends can always help. there's always a reason to leave. you have the help of Jesus & you just have to be patient, dig deep in your mind concerning understanding, knowledge & wisdom & apply that wisdom. make sure you don't think, speak or say anything you would regret later. read Proverbs 16:7 & 4:7

 

[Tararose]

i wouldn't say scripture demands it. the Bible teaches all that's proper in a marriage. counsellors, pastors, trusting friends can always help. there's always a reason to leave. you have the help of Jesus & you just have to be patient, dig deep in your mind concerning understanding, knowledge & wisdom & apply that wisdom. make sure you don't think, speak or say anything you would regret later. read Proverbs 16:7 & 4:7

Thanks for the input. I cam swe where you are coming from but personally still cant see any opt out clause especially for a married person in this situation. Or any reason for someone with a lying spouse to avoid fulfiling marriage obligations as laid out in the new testament, or any of acceptable reason to leave except adultery or abandonment, or separation if thetes a case of abuse.

I totally agree that you should make good use of all or any available christian resources to help us act wisely, but at the same time we must always check Ny counsel or advice with scripture.

I cant find any scripture that says if the spouse or parent isnt obeying God then you can stop honouring or living with them or even stop having sex with a spouse etc. Even living with an unbeliever is expected of us as long as they are willing to stay with us.

And we cant expect an unbeliever to lay down his life for his wife or an unbelieving wife to obey God by honouring and obeying her husband and so on.

Although i certainly admit it would be sorely tempting to leave a spouse or parent if there was opportunity to do so, in such cases, i cant see that the bible supports doing so .
I am would be more than happy to be corrected, if you can help me with any clear scriptures that can correct me here, but i think even most bible scholars agree on this as a general rule of thumb.

That’s why i find it so perplexing as to how anyone could practically cope with that awful sort of situation.

 

[Karlon]

Thanks for the input. I cam swe where you are coming from but personally still cant see any opt out clause especially for a married person in this situation. Or any reason for someone with a lying spouse to avoid fulfiling marriage obligations as laid out in the new testament, or any of acceptable reason to leave except adultery or abandonment, or separation if thetes a case of abuse.

I totally agree that you should make good use of all or any available christian resources to help us act wisely, but at the same time we must always check Ny counsel or advice with scripture.

I cant find any scripture that says if the spouse or parent isnt obeying God then you can stop honouring or living with them or even stop having sex with a spouse etc. Even living with an unbeliever is expected of us as long as they are willing to stay with us.

And we cant expect an unbeliever to lay down his life for his wife or an unbelieving wife to obey God by honouring and obeying her husband and so on.

Although i certainly admit it would be sorely tempting to leave a spouse or parent if there was opportunity to do so, in such cases, i cant see that the bible supports doing so .
I am would be more than happy to be corrected, if you can help me with any clear scriptures that can correct me here, but i think even most bible scholars agree on this as a general rule of thumb.

That’s why i find it so perplexing as to how anyone could practically cope with that awful sort of situation.

i believe God will honor a new relationship in marriage if it goes that way. remember, you are not to be unequally yoked together. what fellowship hath light with darkness, what fellowship a believer with an infidel, if a divorce is on the horizon & you did all you could do to stay together & it didn't work out, apologize to God. God also doesn't want anyone to live painfully

 

[Tararose]

i believe God will honor a new relationship in marriage if it goes that way. remember, you are not to be unequally yoked together. what fellowship hath light with darkness, what fellowship a believer with an infidel, if a divorce is on the horizon & you did all you could do to stay together & it didn't work out, apologize to God. God also doesn't want anyone to live painfully

I can see and i really appreciate the genuine concern and care in ypur reply, snd I do believe God is full of mercy and lives His children. Yes we are strongly advised not to be unequally yolked however there are scriptures explaining once we are married, even unequally, even unhappily, God cares about holiness over temporal happiness and though i may not like the following portions of scripture, it is all still as relevant and still written for our learning.

18 …, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, nor only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God.20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To thisyou were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

22 “He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.”[e]
23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25 For “you were like sheep going astray,”[f] but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
Chapter 3
3 Wives, in the same way submit yourselvesto your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won overwithout words by the behavior of their wives,2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. 4 Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, 6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.


1 cor 7
10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. … And a husband must not divorce his wife.

12 …If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him.

 

[PurpleTXmom]

I can see and i really appreciate the genuine concern and care in ypur reply, snd I do believe God is full of mercy and lives His children. Yes we are strongly advised not to be unequally yolked however there are scriptures explaining once we are married, even unequally, even unhappily, God cares about holiness over temporal happiness and though i may not like the following portions of scripture, it is all still as relevant and still written for our learning.

18 …, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, nor only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God.20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To thisyou were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

22 “He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.”[e]
23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25 For “you were like sheep going astray,”[f] but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
Chapter 3
3 Wives, in the same way submit yourselvesto your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won overwithout words by the behavior of their wives,2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. 4 Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, 6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.


1 cor 7
10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. … And a husband must not divorce his wife.

12 …If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him.

@Tararose I'm new to this forum, and new to exploring faith, so please forgive my ignorance in advance... but you did indicate that abuse would be grounds for divorce, and if your husband is perpetually lying to you that IS abuse. If you feel unsafe and uneasy in your home, that IS abuse. Someone who claims to have faith, yet abuses it, does not really have faith. If you want to save your marriage, it does take two to make that work. If your husband, claiming to have faith, would be willing to go to a Christian marriage counselor you may be able to talk through these issues. If your husband doesn't want to work on ACTUALLY making it better and continues this behavior with you, you should not lie down and take it. Even from what little I have learned so far in the past few months of exploring my own faith, you need to make quality decisions for your life. You can talk to God, but he does not always take the actions for you. (Noah had to build the ark, and Moses had to confront the Pharoh to get the Israelites out of Egypt, etc.) Pray about it, and you will get the guidance that you are looking for. As someone who has suffered from emotional abuse from an unloving spouse, I can tell you that there is still light in the world and it may just come after you unburden yourself. Yes, I understand divorce is frowned upon and is a sin, and thankfully Jesus can forgive even people like me who took that path. I am now very happily married to someone else, and I am thankful every day that I had the courage to leave my past relationship. It was NOT easy, and we had children together, and it was the MOST painful experience I've ever been through... but there was light on the other side of that all. I don't understand any faith that would support a decision to stay in misery in an unloving marriage. It's not worth crying yourself to sleep for the rest of your days (if that's where you're at... it was for me before my divorce.) The Bible says to put God first and now might be when you need to put your faith above your earthly obligations. Whichever way you choose to go, go in faith.

 

[Tararose]

@Tararose I'm new to this forum, and new to exploring faith, so please forgive my ignorance in advance... but you did indicate that abuse would be grounds for divorce, and if your husband is perpetually lying to you that IS abuse. If you feel unsafe and uneasy in your home, that IS abuse. Someone who claims to have faith, yet abuses it, does not really have faith. If you want to save your marriage, it does take two to make that work. If your husband, claiming to have faith, would be willing to go to a Christian marriage counselor you may be able to talk through these issues. If your husband doesn't want to work on ACTUALLY making it better and continues this behavior with you, you should not lie down and take it. Even from what little I have learned so far in the past few months of exploring my own faith, you need to make quality decisions for your life. You can talk to God, but he does not always take the actions for you. (Noah had to build the ark, and Moses had to confront the Pharoh to get the Israelites out of Egypt, etc.) Pray about it, and you will get the guidance that you are looking for. As someone who has suffered from emotional abuse from an unloving spouse, I can tell you that there is still light in the world and it may just come after you unburden yourself. Yes, I understand divorce is frowned upon and is a sin, and thankfully Jesus can forgive even people like me who took that path. I am now very happily married to someone else, and I am thankful every day that I had the courage to leave my past relationship. It was NOT easy, and we had children together, and it was the MOST painful experience I've ever been through... but there was light on the other side of that all. I don't understand any faith that would support a decision to stay in misery in an unloving marriage. It's not worth crying yourself to sleep for the rest of your days (if that's where you're at... it was for me before my divorce.) The Bible says to put God first and now might be when you need to put your faith above your earthly obligations. Whichever way you choose to go, go in faith.

Thank you for taking the the time to respond and for sharing your own experiences as well, which is not always easy to do when you have been through hard times.

I agree even if you divorce and remarry and shouldnt have, that God can still forgive. Some might argue that the remarriage isn’t valid if the divorce wasnt on the geounds of adultery, and some even go sp far as to say that person should return to the former spouse- but Deut 24:4 says that doing so would be an abomination (or detestable in some versions) to God. So, i would never advise a person do that - 2 wrongs certainly dont make a right in this case.

Abuse is a contested reason for divorce. The verses i gave in #25 seem to say abuse is not grounds for divorce. Many disagree, and some - including myself -feel that where Paul offered a compromise for dangerous or unbearable or life threatening situations (perhaps where children are at risk etc) when he states the Lord says a wife must not leave her husband, but he then adds a twist “but if she does, she must remain single or return to her (I missed this out on my 1 cor 7 quote in post #25)

This seems to allow seperation but not divorce or remarriage.

I certainly stand in no judgement of anyone who divorced due to abusive conditions. That wasn't the aim of my post or responses at all. I was hoping to get advice how to biblically council or advise someone ( someone who didnt consider being lied to all the time as abusive, just to clarify) who was struggling to practically live with such a deceitful person.
All of the responses have been appreciated, even the one who said they didnt know as they had never been married, as it shows people are wanting to help even if they arent sure how. You have encouraged me through sharing the grace of God in your own life, and reminded me how merciful and kind He is. Thank you

 

[Tararose]

A big thanks to every one who has contributed to my post. Really appreciate you all, even if i havent liked every post or commented on replies, i have read them all and am grateful. Also really appreciate not being corrected when my typing goes wrong and i dont spot it before the edit timer runs out, which is usually the case lol

 

[Lanolin]

Im not sure about a spouse since you may have to share a room or even bed with them but things eventually happen that you do have separate rooms or the other person has to sleep somewere else cos they snore or whatever.

In the Bible women were suposed to not sleep with their husbands when it was their time of the month anyway cos they were considered unclean.

There is a reason for womens refuges.

I dont think theres an. easy answer for children though they do have to put up with deceitful parents but a lot of them DO run away. Hence street kids and homelessness.

I think in cases like alcoholics when they are literally pickled or in a coma or as people say 'wasted' and then they dont even remember the next day how they behaved under the influence...even if they took a pledge not to drink..their wives still had to clean up their vomit and broken glass.

I had a married christian friend who had an alcoholic husband...she escaped figuratively by doing art. They still lived together but she had her own life without him using her gifts. He did become sober, she possibly prayed for him all the time but even when alcoholics become sober they can be hard to live with I imagine, but she didnt leave him, He did die and the end of his life she was visiting him in arest home cos he had dementia.

Dementia is a disease and its not they are deliberately lying to you. I think also that some people would actually rather be lied to than face an uncomfortable truth, however with me I hate being lied to or kept in the dark or treated unfairly I just wouldnt tolerate that.

people that have to deal with narcissitic parents especially have their reasons for going no-contact. The whole gas lighting thing is horrible, but Im supposing that dont worry so much about the other person hoping they will change, you just carry on being you and as honest and humble and just as you can. In the end they will see it till God makes a way for you to escape and will give you grace or mercy in that situation. Just dont get caught up in the drama and lies thinking the other person will actually listen to you.