Many Mansions Sermon: Meant for those who are alive in Christ

[Aaron56]

I originally wrote this as a reply in another thread, but I did not want it to derail the discussion. So, I gave it its own thread.

John 14:1-5 is often read a funerals. I believe this practice misses the meaning of the scripture.

John 14:2-6
In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”
Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

The word for "mansions" is monē. It's the same word used in this verse when Jesus explains that the Father and the Son will live with believers:

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

So, the question is: if you are a believer, did you add onto your physical house to make room for the Father and the Son?

No, of course not. We know that Jesus is using figurative language. However, the language bears much weight!

Jesus is factually reporting that the Father and the Son will, by their own volition, abide with those who love them. This hints at the depth of security in the covenant: it is assured not by man's strength (as was the Law) but by the will of the Father and Son. (that's another thread entirely)

Now let's look at "place".

Place is the word topos. The same word is used here, when the Jews appeal to the Pharisees to help with the threat that Jesus was to their nation and religion:

John 11:48
“If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation.”

If we read "place" as a physical dwelling, we could conclude that the Jews were afraid to be evicted from their homes because of Jesus.

We know that's not what they meant.

They were afraid to lose their positions of influence and their places of power.

Let's look at one final area.

Jesus said "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself". Is there anywhere in scripture where this is so? If He's not talking about receiving you in heaven when you die but, rather, about receiving you to Himself on this side of life, we should be able to find that in the scriptures, right?

Of course we can.

Jesus, the man, was only one man. The laws of physics prevented another man from being in the same place as was Jesus. But, when He died (and this is what He was alluding to) He did not rise up as Jesus, another man. He rose up as the Christ. When we plant a seed we do not harvest only a seed. No. An entire plant full of seeds grows from the one that is planted.

So what is the corollary between Jesus dying, being resurrected, and being able to receive all unto Himself?

The many-membered Christ! Christ is the spiritual man in which all men, who are redeemed, are fit and knitted together.

Paul explains this mystery...

1 Corinthians 12:12
For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.

Ephesians 5:30
For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.

Paul also used the same word for "receive" (paralambanō ) in Colossians 2:6-10

As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

Notice how man "in Hims" are used in that small section. This is the reality of being received unto Christ: our place is indeed "in Him".

We are the structure, engineered by the Holy Spirit, through which the corporate Christ is seen in the earth.

Furthermore, in Christ, we are not another; we are not a foreign body. We are actually His flesh and blood. That is why He can share His glory with us:

And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

Let's look at the first set of verses again.

In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

Jesus is explaining how He will administrate next part of the New Covenant.

This is a paraphrase using the points from above:

My Father's family is vast! I tell you these things because I tell you my Father's business. By my passing and resurrection you may be included in the house of My Father; Our Father. I will arise as the Christ and include you in myself. When I walked the earth My Father secured a place for Me. He was always with Me. When I return and receive you to Myself, you will walk the earth with the same grace I was given. I will always be with you. Do not be troubled in your heart.

"I will never leave you or forsake you." -Christ Jesus

 

[Artios1]

It's a good post except it is not for us in the One Body of Christ ... The many mansions..... Jesus was referring to Israel ...

 

[Nehemiah6]

It's a good post except it is not for us in the One Body of Christ ... The many mansions..... Jesus was referring to Israel ...

How could Jesus have been referring to Israel when Israel would be demanding His crucifixion the next day? Even redeemed and restored Israel (in the future) will be on earth, not in the mansions of the New Jerusalem. How do Christians manage to confuse themselves so thoroughly?

John 14:1-3 is THE FIRST INTIMATION OF THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH. "I will come again and receive you unto myself" speaks of the divine Bridegroom coming for His Bride at the Rapture. Thus "the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from Heaven with a shout". He does not send out His angels at that time but comes personally to take His saints to Heaven. And that is where those mansions are -- in the New Jerusalem. This is a huge cubic city -- 1500 miles cubed. So imagine how many multiple mansions it has.

 

[Cameron143]

How could Jesus have been referring to Israel when Israel would be demanding His crucifixion the next day? Even redeemed and restored Israel (in the future) will be on earth, not in the mansions of the New Jerusalem. How do Christians manage to confuse themselves so thoroughly?

John 14:1-3 is THE FIRST INTIMATION OF THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH. "I will come again and receive you unto myself" speaks of the divine Bridegroom coming for His Bride at the Rapture. Thus "the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from Heaven with a shout". He does not send out His angels at that time but comes personally to take His saints to Heaven. And that is where those mansions are -- in the New Jerusalem. This is a huge cubic city -- 1500 miles cubed. So imagine how many multiple mansions it has.

If I understood the OP correctly, these verses have nothing to do with the rapture but the great advantage of the new covenant which allows for mankind in Christ to dwell with God Himself and Jesus whom He has sent which is referred to in John 17:3 and worked out in John 15 in the example of the vine and the branches.

 

[Mem]

The word for "mansions" is monē. It's the same word used in this verse when Jesus explains that the Father and the Son will live with believers:

Particularly interesting is that the word (Strong's 3348) "mone" 's origin is from (Strong's 3306) "meno," which is the word found in Hebrews 13:14, "For here we do not have a permanent city, but we are looking for the city that is to come."

In light of these two verses, and Hebrews 13:13's instruction, "Therefore let us go to Him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace He bore," how then should I view my place prepared? Would you say I am home looking for the city to come (a building up of the city?), or am I outside the camp waiting to go home (located in the city to come)?

 

[Nehemiah6]

If I understood the OP correctly, these verses have nothing to do with the rapture but the great advantage of the new covenant which allows for mankind in Christ to dwell with God Himself and Jesus whom He has sent which is referred to in John 17:3 and worked out in John 15 in the example of the vine and the branches.

Well that is simply trying to REINTERPRET what was plainly stated by Christ. That is not exegesis.

One would have to really stretch the meaning of John 14:1-3 to come up with this eisegesis:
"My Father's family is vast! I tell you these things because I tell you my Father's business. By my passing and resurrection you may be included in the house of My Father; Our Father. I will arise as the Christ and include you in myself. When I walked the earth My Father secured a place for Me. He was always with Me. When I return and receive you to Myself, you will walk the earth with the same grace I was given. I will always be with you. Do not be troubled in your heart."

So what is the proper and plain interpretation?

A. DO NOT CONNECT THE RAPTURE WITH ANY KIND OF TROUBLE OR TRIBULATION
Let not your heart be troubled:

B. I AM ALSO GOD SO WHAT I AM SAYING IS DIVINE REVELATION
ye believe in God, believe also in me.

C. GOD THE FATHER'S HOUSE IS HEAVEN ITSELF (WHICH INCLUDES THE NEW JERUSALEM)
In my Father's house...

D. THE NEW JERUSALEM LITERALLY HAS NUMEROUS MANSIONS
...are many mansions:

E. THIS IS NOT FANTASY BUT SPIRITUAL FACT. BELIEVE IT.
...if it were not so, I would have told you.

F. CHRIST ANTICIPATES HIS ASCENSION BACK TO HEAVEN MANY TIMES
I go to prepare a place for you.

G. "I WILL COME AGAIN" IS A GUARANTEE OF THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again...

H. CHRIST COMES FOR HIS BRIDE PERSONALLY ("UNTO MYSELF") AT THE RAPTURE
...and receive you unto myself;

I. EVERY SAINT WILL BE RAPTURED TO HEAVEN, THE ETERNAL HOME OF THE CHURCH
that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[Cameron143]

Well that is simply trying to REINTERPRET what was plainly stated by Christ. That is not exegesis.

One would have to really stretch the meaning of John 14:1-3 to come up with this eisegesis:
"My Father's family is vast! I tell you these things because I tell you my Father's business. By my passing and resurrection you may be included in the house of My Father; Our Father. I will arise as the Christ and include you in myself. When I walked the earth My Father secured a place for Me. He was always with Me. When I return and receive you to Myself, you will walk the earth with the same grace I was given. I will always be with you. Do not be troubled in your heart."

So what is the proper and plain interpretation?

A. DO NOT CONNECT THE RAPTURE WITH ANY KIND OF TROUBLE OR TRIBULATION
Let not your heart be troubled:

B. I AM ALSO GOD SO WHAT I AM SAYING IS DIVINE REVELATION
ye believe in God, believe also in me.

C. GOD THE FATHER'S HOUSE IS HEAVEN ITSELF (WHICH INCLUDES THE NEW JERUSALEM)
In my Father's house...

D. THE NEW JERUSALEM LITERALLY HAS NUMEROUS MANSIONS
...are many mansions:

E. THIS IS NOT FANTASY BUT SPIRITUAL FACT. BELIEVE IT.
...if it were not so, I would have told you.

F. CHRIST ANTICIPATES HIS ASCENSION BACK TO HEAVEN MANY TIMES
I go to prepare a place for you.

G. "I WILL COME AGAIN" IS A GUARANTEE OF THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again...

H. CHRIST COMES FOR HIS BRIDE PERSONALLY ("UNTO MYSELF") AT THE RAPTURE
...and receive you unto myself;

I. EVERY SAINT WILL BE RAPTURED TO HEAVEN, THE ETERNAL HOME OF THE CHURCH
that where I am, there ye may be also.

I appreciate your perspective and the enumeration of it. And it seems to be the most widespread. And it goes along well with a physical literal kingdom in the future. But it doesn't take into account the totality of the teaching of the whole chapter or succeeding chapters.
Mansions could be better translated rooms and the rooms together creating the house of God. This is no different from believers being the temple of God.
The coming that is explained is spiritual. Jesus says He will come again. But there is no mention of Him taking believers anywhere...only that they might be where He is. And that place is spoken of as being with the Father and Himself. His departure was so the Holy Spirit could come which is also spoken of as the Comforter. And it is hereby that we are enabled to abide and tabernacle with both Christ and the Father.
Chapter 15 goes on to explain the outworking of the relationship and how Christ may dwell in us richly as we abide in the vine...in Him.
While there are great abuses of what certain arms of the church put forth as genuine spiritual reality, most Christians live far below what God is offering in terms of intimacy and spirituality.

 

[SilverFox7]

While there are great abuses of what certain arms of the church put forth as genuine spiritual reality, most Christians live far below what God is offering in terms of intimacy and spirituality.

This certainly applies to me. Although I love God and deeply appreciate the Christian life He has given me, I still get way too wrapped up in the affairs of this world:

“My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it” (John 17:15-16).

It is an ongoing struggle to keep God first at all times and allow the Holy Spirit to guide all of my thoughts, feelings, and actions to be a light to those who are a part of my life. The challenge is to draw people to Christ, yet it's so easy to get drawn away from Him instead and get entangled in the corruption we see and experience in this crazy world.

I have a long way to go yet...

 

[Nehemiah6]

But it doesn't take into account the totality of the teaching of the whole chapter or succeeding chapters.

It takes into account the totality of the New Testament. The Gospel of John was not trying to elucidate the Rapture. There are many other passages which you should be looking at.

 

[Cameron143]

It takes into account the totality of the New Testament. The Gospel of John was not trying to elucidate the Rapture. There are many other passages which you should be looking at.

I agree on both accounts. But it's ok to let the individual parts convey the focus of their message and to live well and fully in that particular truth.

 

[Aaron56]

After John 14 Jesus returned as the Christ and departed again. So that was fulfilled.

In John 14 He was stating the administration of the covenant. Had He not died and had He not been resurrected as the Christ, the spiritual man, we could not be included in Him. But now, as a spirit, there is room for all who believe in Him to be in as His body, His flesh and bones in the earth.

 

[Aaron56]

After John 14 Jesus returned as the Christ and departed again. So that was fulfilled.

In John 14 He was stating the administration of the covenant. Had He not died and had He not been resurrected as the Christ, the spiritual man, we could not be included in Him. But now, as a spirit, there is room for all who believe in Him to be in as His body, His flesh and bones in the earth.

If we read it as a precursor to the rapture, then the overarching message is simply "hold out until I come back". One would have to insert certain biases to make this true and would have to admit that God's ultimate plan for man is a rescue at the last hour... hardly a triumphant Lion of Judah.

However, if we read it as the declaration of or the administration of the divine covenant between the Son and the Father, which ultimately includes all who believe and will believe in Him, then the place to which we are gathered is apparent in the scripture: "to the Father". This, as it so happens, is the base definition of "eternal life". John chapter 17, which is a further declaration of the divine covenant, records "Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."

If we read John chapter 17 in light of this understanding it's depth of richness nearly leaps from the page.
Speaking is the Son, who has earned the right to inherit all the Father has. This is akin to the reading of a will to those who are about to inherit the estate. These are powerful and binding words of a legal treatise.

When Jesus had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son may glorify You. 2For You granted Him authority over all people,a so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. 3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. 4I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.
Prayer for the Disciples
6I have revealed Your name to those You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours; You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7Now they know that everything You have given Me comes from You. 8For I have given them the words You gave Me, and they have received them. They knew with certainty that I came from You, and they believed that You sent Me.
9I ask on their behalf. I do not ask on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those You have given Me; for they are Yours. 10All I have is Yours, and all You have is Mine; and in them I have been glorified. 11I will no longer be in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to You.
Holy Father, protect them by Your name, the name You gave Me,b so that they may be one as We are one. 12While I was with them, I protected and preserved them by Your name, the name You gave Me. Not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
13But now I am coming to You; and I am saying these things while I am in the world, so that they may have My joy fulfilled within them. 14I have given them Your word and the world has hated them; for they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one.c 16They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. 18As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify Myself, so that they too may be sanctified by the truth.
Prayer for All Believers
20I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— 23I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.
24Father, I want those You have given Me to be with Me where I am, that they may see the glory You gave Me because You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
25Righteous Father, although the world has not known You, I know You, and they know that You sent Me. 26And I have made Your name known to them and will continue to make it known, so that the love You have for Me may be in them, and I in them.”

 

[Cameron143]

It's a shame this thread didn't garner more attention. To me it engenders the essence of the new covenant most succinctly and the purpose in Jesus' advent in particular. There is a life with God hidden in Christ that is supernatural and every bit as real as the one we have in our flesh. Yet too few Christians know of its existence or reality.
I understand one's reticence to such teaching. The abuses on the subject are legion and the typical response to extremes on one end lead to extreme reactions on the other. But Jesus came to bring not only life but to bring it to its fullest. It might be worth asking ourselves...is this all there is?

 

[Grace911]

It's a shame this thread didn't garner more attention. To me it engenders the essence of the new covenant most succinctly and the purpose in Jesus' advent in particular. There is a life with God hidden in Christ that is supernatural and every bit as real as the one we have in our flesh. Yet too few Christians know of its existence or reality.
I understand one's reticence to such teaching. The abuses on the subject are legion and the typical response to extremes on one end lead to extreme reactions on the other. But Jesus came to bring not only life but to bring it to its fullest. It might be worth asking ourselves...is this all there is?

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

This is marriage talk. The custom was for a bridegroom after meeting the bride, return to His Father's house and prepare a living space. When the Father had approved of the living space, He releases the Son to return and fetch His Bride. She was given an endowment. A comforter and helper while she waits for the Bridegroom to return.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

really an interesting read brother Aaron
I can’t say i understand everything your saying here but I think see a lot of things that are really good points thanks for sharing

 

[Aaron56]

really an interesting read brother I can’t say i understand everything your saying here but I think see a lot of things that are really good points thanks for sharing

Thank you my friend. I tried to capture the gist of the message. I could certainly expand upon each point but it would take many pages.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

This is marriage talk. The custom was for a bridegroom after meeting the bride, return to His Father's house and prepare a living space. When the Father had approved of the living space, He releases the Son to return and fetch His Bride. She was given an endowment. A comforter and helper while she waits for the Bridegroom to return.

she uses marriage terminology a lot in parables bridegrooms wedding banquets ect also he does the same with gardening and plants , and other worldly daily things people grasp to understand concepts

like the intended union between God and man as one receiving his spirit and how marriage is a good example of how that is to be understood

 

[Aaron56]

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

This is marriage talk. The custom was for a bridegroom after meeting the bride, return to His Father's house and prepare a living space. When the Father had approved of the living space, He releases the Son to return and fetch His Bride. She was given an endowment. A comforter and helper while she waits for the Bridegroom to return.

And now, just as in marriage, we are "one flesh" with Him: His flesh and His bones. This is the mystery Paul explained.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thank you my friend. I tried to capture the gist of the message. I could certainly expand upon each point but it would take many pages.

I’m just being honest dear brother you have a good biblical mind . And there’s a lot in there I see and think are really solid points and appreciate that you shared and took the time

 

[Cameron143]

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

This is marriage talk. The custom was for a bridegroom after meeting the bride, return to His Father's house and prepare a living space. When the Father had approved of the living space, He releases the Son to return and fetch His Bride. She was given an endowment. A comforter and helper while she waits for the Bridegroom to return.

I could go along with that assessment if not for the rest of the chapter and into the next few chapters. Keep reading the chapter. The bride doesn't leave. The Father and bridegroom come to them.
But I do like the symbolism of marriage for a host of reasons.