Noah’s ark and faith

[Nehemiah6]

The above, however is very important. Had Noah NOT obeyed God and NOT built the Ark, would he still have been saved through faith?

That is hardly possible. It is only because Noah believed God that he was deemed to be righteous. Believing God meant believing the necessity of (a) building the Ark (b) warning others about the wrath to come and (c) obeying God's instructions to a T.

Thus he is called " a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5). But how did Peter learn about Noah's preaching when there is not a hint of it in Genesis? It comes back to divine inspiration, Just as Paul said this about Noah in Hebrews 11:7: By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. Once again we do not see anything in Genesis about the fearfulness of Noah, but God revealed it to Paul by divine inspiration.

What we generally miss is that God would have actually provided Noah with a "blueprint" for the design of the Ark, since Noah could not have possibly conjured up the design on his own. The Ark was in fact a ship of huge proportions (approx 500 ft long x 83 ft wide x 50 ft high) and, with three levels, and many rooms. It is God who would have calculated what it would take to accommodate Noah, his family, and all the living creatures selected by God.

Something like this had never been constructed on earth, since no one had ever seen a Flood such as that during Noah's life. It is also interesting to note that Methuselah (the oldest person in Bible history) died in the first month of the year in which the Flood came about.

 

[John146]

Do you believe Jesus Christ preached the one true gospel John ? was he a false teacher of a false gospel because you don’t understand Paul’s epistles ?

“And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised,

To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭4:17-19, 21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He did on a few occasions to his disciples which they did not understand.

Luke 18:
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. (the gospel of salvation)
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Jesus mainly preached the gospel of the kingdom to the Jews only. This was the good news of the restored kingdom of Israel with the Jewish Messiah reigning on David's throne.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

And easy for them to imagine it in the future.

Bingo they had faith in Christ too

The same way we do they heard things like this that God said would happen

“Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and we hear this after it happened Christian’s just have the fulfillment and power so we have doctrine too the example of Christs life

“For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:21-25‬ ‭

they believed in the same messiah we do we just know more

 

[John146]

The water saved them because they were on a boat they built by gods commandment . are you saying this is false too or?

Physically saved them...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

He did on a few occasions to his disciples which they did not understand.

Luke 18:
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Jesus mainly preached the gospel of the kingdom to the Jews only. This was the good news of the restored kingdom of Israel with the Jewish Messiah reigning on David's throne.

So Paul didn’t preach the same gospel as Jesus then ? D Paul’s gospel saves and Jesus gospel and teachings were just for Jews before Jesus died ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Physically saved them...

why is Peter using it as an example of baptism and salvstion in the church I wonder ?

 

[Cameron143]

Physically saved them...

Physical salvation always pictures spiritual salvation.[/QUOTE]

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Physical salvation always pictures spiritual salvation.

[/QUOTE]
Yes the apostles use the ot events as examples to explain spiritual truths and use ot men like Enoch abel Abraham ect to make points to us always a type and then reality like the law relates to the gospel

 

[John146]

So Paul didn’t preach the same gospel as Jesus then ? D Paul’s gospel saves and Jesus gospel and teachings were just for Jews before Jesus died ?

The gospel of the kingdom was good news for the Jews concerning their Messiah. Look to the book of Luke. This is what they were looking for, a Messiah to save them from their enemies so they could serve and worship God without fear in righteousness...as told by the Holy Ghost through Zacharias...

Luke 1
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Luke 24
18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

 

[John146]

Physical salvation always pictures spiritual salvation.

[/QUOTE]

It may picture it, but it's not the same. Pictures can only be seen looking back...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Physical salvation always pictures spiritual salvation.

[/QUOTE]
Sis you notice though brother it’s about Jesus spirit going to those spirits who were imprisoned long ago ? So it’s actually not just about physical he’s saying he preached to spirits in a spiritual prison it’s stuff like this being fulfilled




And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[John146]

why is Peter using it as an example of baptism and salvstion in the church I wonder ?

The like figure...not the same thing...but a figure. There is no power unto salvation before the resurrection of Christ.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It may picture it, but it's not the same. Pictures can only be seen looking back...[/QUOTE]
You think thisnis only about something temporal and physical ?

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬
And Abraham isn’t saved into Gods kingdom like gentiles his children ?

“And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Nehemiah6]

Where in the Bible do you find that he "prophesied about the Second Coming of Christ"? I don't find it there. And how do you know that his ascendence points to the Rapture, as you put it? Of course, Elijah ascends to heaven in a chariot. Are we going to ride chariots to heaven too? I'm not making fun of you. These are serious questions about interpreting the Bible.

Good questions. Here is what Enoch prophesied: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14.15) This corresponds to what we see in Revelation 19, as also indicated in Revelation 1:7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Those are "clouds" of saints and angels surrounding Christ at His Second Coming "with power and great glory".

As to Enoch prefiguring the Rapture, we see this in Hebrews 11:5: By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. The key is "that he should not see death". All the saints who are alive at the Rapture will not see death. They will also be "translated"* to Heaven (like Enoch). This is unlike Elijah being taken up in a chariot.

*Strong's Concordance
metatithemi: I transfer, desert, change
Original Word: μετατίθημι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metatithemi
Phonetic Spelling: (met-at-ith'-ay-mee)
Definition: to transfer, change
Usage: (a) I transfer, mid: I go over to another party, desert, (b) I change.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3346: μετατίθημι
μετατίθημι; 1 aorist μετέθηκα; present middle μετατίθεμαι: 1 aorist passive μετετεθην; to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other (see μετά, III. 2)); i. e.,
1. to transfer: τινα followed by εἰς; with the accusative of place, passive, Acts 7:16; without mention of the place, it being well known to the readers, Hebrews 11:5 (Genesis 5:24; Sir. 44:16, cf. Wis. 4:10).

 

[John146]

“And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They were kept safe in "paradise" aka "Abraham's bosom" in the heart of the earth until Christ shed his blood and provided away for them to be set free. After his death, he went to Abraham's bosom to preach the gospel unto them.

1 Peter 4
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

[Cameron143]

The gospel of the kingdom was good news for the Jews concerning their Messiah. Look to the book of Luke. This is what they were looking for, a Messiah to save them from their enemies so they could serve and worship God without fear in righteousness...as told by the Holy Ghost through Zacharias...

Luke 1
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Luke 24
18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

Jesus did come primarily to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But He also had sheep not of that fold. The gospel of the kingdom is for all who believe.
It might be helpful to understand that a kingdom is wherever a king rules. Jesus rules and reigns in the hearts of believers. That is His kingdom and the temple that was raised in 3 days. The kingdom is spiritual and is being built daily and the gates of hell are not prevailing against it.
I know most people look to an earthly future kingdom. But Satan is on the defense. Jesus is plucking people out of darkness and bringing them into the glorious kingdom of light. Satan is able to withstand this in no way. There are more Christians in the world today than ever before. And wherever you find persecution, you find the church growing rapidly

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The like figure...not the same thing...but a figure. There is no power unto salvation before the resurrection of Christ.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

yes lol he’s eternal it was so long before it was fulfilled in the earth because God had declared it

everyone who’s ever believed in the true God believed in Jesus and the gospel they only had prophecy but the whole story is on the ot from his birth to his baptism and receiving the spirit and preaching thhe true gospel sending it to all nations for salvstion by chosen wotnesses like Paul his suffering and death and resurrection is all there his ascention to gods right hand choosing of all nations rather than only israel ect

pauls doctrine was because he believed what Moses and the prophets had said he bears witness under oath to it this is what Paul said he taught to begin with after he met Jesus , and what he continues preaching even at his arrest

“Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:19-20, 22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Cameron143]

Sis you notice though brother it’s about Jesus spirit going to those spirits who were imprisoned long ago ? So it’s actually not just about physical he’s saying he preached to spirits in a spiritual prison it’s stuff like this being fulfilled




And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬[/QUOTE]
This could just as easily picture a time of captivity or enslavement. Joseph started in a pit and God worked his position to one of highest favor.

 

[John146]

Jesus did come primarily to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But He also had sheep not of that fold. The gospel of the kingdom is for all who believe.
It might be helpful to understand that a kingdom is wherever a king rules. Jesus rules and reigns in the hearts of believers. That is His kingdom and the temple that was raised in 3 days. The kingdom is spiritual and is being built daily and the gates of hell are not prevailing against it.
I know most people look to an earthly future kingdom. But Satan is on the defense. Jesus is plucking people out of darkness and bringing them into the glorious kingdom of light. Satan is able to withstand this in no way. There are more Christians in the world today than ever before. And wherever you find persecution, you find the church growing rapidly

The kingdom of God is within you. It is a kingdom of righteousness through Jesus Christ. God = spiritual
The kingdom of heaven is a physical, earthly kingdom in Jerusalem. Heaven = physical, created

 

[John146]

yes lol he’s eternal it was so long before it was fulfilled in the earth because God had declared it

everyone who’s ever believed in the true God believed in Jesus and the gospel they only had prophecy but the whole story is on the ot from his birth to his baptism and receiving the spirit and preaching thhe true gospel sending it to all nations for salvstion by chosen wotnesses like Paul his suffering and death and resurrection is all there his ascention to gods right hand choosing of all nations rather than only israel ect

pauls doctrine was because he believed what Moses and the prophets had said he bears witness under oath to it this is what Paul said he taught to begin with after he met Jesus , and what he continues preaching even at his arrest

“Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:19-20, 22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Are you claiming that people could be saved without the cross of Jesus? The gospel unto salvation is specific. It is how Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. There is no other way. Those before the cross were not saved like you and me. They did not have, nor could have the shed blood applied to them. They were justified by faith and works, but that could not bring them eternal salvation, only kept safe in Abraham's bosom.