Christ kept the Law of Moses, so....

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Grace911

Active member
Nov 11, 2018
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I meant to show the Torah scripture "Because it is written"

Leviticus 20:7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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1Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Deuteronomy 28:9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.


If you abolish the law, you abolish holiness as well.

Deuteronomy 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Deuteronomy 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

"Otherwise you need to sacrifice animals each time you sin."

Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Do you live in Jerusalem with a temple and priests serving? Then you cannot, at this time, need to sacrifice each time you sin!! Commonsense, but testimony of the scriptures is the proof. Individuals never sacrifice animals in their tent back side. YHWH/LORD is an orderly God with orderly rules and instructions. All that is in the first five books of the Bible are called Torah meaning instructions. You cannot add or diminish the laws and commandments, however because of sin of serving other gods, God saw fit to pause the Temple services after 70 AD. If you are watching the Israeli news, the Temple Institute is ready with everything needed to restart the sacrificial system.

Just think, if the Temple had not been destroyed we would have 1900 years of history were every High Priest would be suspect of being the antichrist.
Eph 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Eph 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Aren't the law of commandments contained in ordinances the ceremonial law?
 

Grace911

Active member
Nov 11, 2018
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Aren't the law of commandments contained in ordinances the ceremonial law?
I love your question and am starting a new post to discuss specifically "Commandments, Statutes, Ordinances, and Judgments...What's the Difference?"

Let's all dig in and see if there is clarity and wisdom in understanding.
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
if this is helpful. From the blueletterbible site.

Torah H8451 translated Law

KJV Translation Count — Total: 219x
The KJV translates Strong's H8451 in the following manner: law (219x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. law, direction, instruction
    1. instruction, direction (human or divine)
      1. body of prophetic teaching
      2. instruction in Messianic age
      3. body of priestly direction or instruction
      4. body of legal directives
    2. law
      1. law of the burnt offering
      2. of special law, codes of law
    3. custom, manner
    4. the Deuteronomic or Mosaic Law
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
תּוֹרָה tôwrâh, to-raw'; or תֹּרָה tôrâh; from H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch:—law.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
'eda H5713 translated testimonies most of the time.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 26x
The KJV translates Strong's H5713 in the following manner: testimonies (22x), witness (4x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. testimony, witness
    1. always plural and always of laws as divine testimonies
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
עֵדָה ʻêdâh, ay-daw'; feminine of H5707 in its techn. sense; testimony:—testimony, witness. Compare H5712.
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
tsavah H6680 translated command 430 times out of 494.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 494x
The KJV translates Strong's H6680 in the following manner: command (430x), charge (39x), commandment (9x), appoint (5x), bade (3x), order (3x), commander (1x), miscellaneous (4x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. to command, charge, give orders, lay charge, give charge to, order
    1. (Piel)
      1. to lay charge upon
      2. to give charge to, give command to
      3. to give charge unto
      4. to give charge over, appoint
      5. to give charge, command
      6. to charge, command
      7. to charge, commission
      8. to command, appoint, ordain (of divine act)
    2. (Pual) to be commanded
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
צָוָה tsâvâh, tsaw-vaw'; a primitive root; (intensively) to constitute, enjoin:—appoint, (for-) bid, (give a) charge, (give a, give in, send with) command(-er, -ment), send a messenger, put, (set) in order.
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
piqqudim H6490 translated precepts most of the time. occurs mostly in Psalm 119.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 24x
The KJV translates Strong's H6490 in the following manner: precept (21x), commandment (2x), statute (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. precept, statute
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
פִּקּוּד piqqûwd, pik-kood'; or פִּקֻּד piqqud; from H6485; properly, appointed, i.e. a mandate (of God; plural only, collectively, for the Law):—commandment, precept, statute.
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
choq H2706 translated statutes most of the time.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 127x
The KJV translates Strong's H2706 in the following manner: statute (87x), ordinance (9x), decree (7x), due (4x), law (4x), portion (3x), bounds (2x), custom (2x), appointed (1x), commandments (1x), miscellaneous (7x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. statute, ordinance, limit, something prescribed, due
    1. prescribed task
    2. prescribed portion
    3. action prescribed (for oneself), resolve
    4. prescribed due
    5. prescribed limit, boundary
    6. enactment, decree, ordinance
      1. specific decree
      2. law in general
    7. enactments, statutes
      1. conditions
      2. enactments
      3. decrees
      4. civil enactments prescribed by God
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
חֹק chôq, khoke; from H2710; an enactment; hence, an appointment (of time, space, quantity, labor or usage):—appointed, bound, commandment, convenient, custom, decree(-d), due, law, measure, × necessary, ordinance(-nary), portion, set time, statute, task.
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
mitzvah H4687 translated commandments nearly all the time. comes from tsavah H6680 which is to command. VAH is part of His Name YAHAVAH.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 181x
The KJV translates Strong's H4687 in the following manner: commandments (177x), precept (4x), commanded (2x), law (1x), ordinances (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. commandment
    1. commandment (of man)
    2. the commandment (of God)
    3. commandment (of code of wisdom)
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
מִצְוָה mitsvâh, mits-vaw'; from H6680; a command, whether human or divine (collectively, the Law):—(which was) commanded(-ment), law, ordinance, precept.
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
mispat H4941 translated judgment most of the time.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 421x
The KJV translates Strong's H4941 in the following manner: judgment (296x), manner (38x), right (18x), cause (12x), ordinance (11x), lawful (7x), order (5x), worthy (3x), fashion (3x), custom (2x), discretion (2x), law (2x), measure (2x), sentence (2x), miscellaneous (18x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. judgment, justice, ordinance
    1. judgment
      1. act of deciding a case
      2. place, court, seat of judgment
      3. process, procedure, litigation (before judges)
      4. case, cause (presented for judgment)
      5. sentence, decision (of judgment)
      6. execution (of judgment)
      7. time (of judgment)
    2. justice, right, rectitude (attributes of God or man)
    3. ordinance
    4. decision (in law)
    5. right, privilege, due (legal)
    6. proper, fitting, measure, fitness, custom, manner, plan
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
מִשְׁפָּט mishpâṭ, mish-pawt'; from H8199; properly, a verdict (favorable or unfavorable) pronounced judicially, especially a sentence or formal decree (human or (participant's) divine law, individual or collective), including the act, the place, the suit, the crime, and the penalty; abstractly, justice, including a participant's right or privilege (statutory or customary), or even a style:— adversary, ceremony, charge, × crime, custom, desert, determination, discretion, disposing, due, fashion, form, to be judged, judgment, just(-ice, -ly), (manner of) law(-ful), manner, measure, (due) order, ordinance, right, sentence, usest, × worthy, wrong.
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
'eduwth H5715 translated testimony most of the time.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 59x
The KJV translates Strong's H5715 in the following manner: testimony (55x), witness (4x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. testimony
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
עֵדוּת ʻêdûwth, ay-dooth'; feminine of H5707; testimony:—testimony, witness.
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
chuqqah H2708 translated statute and ordinance most of the time.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 104x
The KJV translates Strong's H2708 in the following manner: statute (77x), ordinance (22x), custom (2x), appointed (1x), manners (1x), rites (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. statute, ordinance, limit, enactment, something prescribed
    1. statute
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
חֻקָּה chuqqâh, khook-kaw'; feminine of H2706, and meaning substantially the same:—appointed, custom, manner, ordinance, site, statute.
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
if you type in the Hebrew word H number in the BLB word search box it brings up the page with the information for the word as well as all the verses it occurs in. This can be very helpful to see where the word first occurred and how it was translated and used in other verses.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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I'm just repeating what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17. He said He didn't come to abolish the law but fulfill it.
The law is awesome. The weakness of human flesh not so much. I am not under the law but it is of great value to me.

I agree. I’m not under the law either but the law is of great value to me as well.


Can we discuss what we are under?


For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Romans 6:13


What we are under is grace.


Grace like truth, and wisdom and understanding are something as well as Someone.


Grace is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.


Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:28-29


Under the law means; under obligation to obey the law.

Likewise under grace means; under obligation to obey grace, the Spirit of grace.

IOW, to be led by the Spirit means we follow the Holy Spirit. If we follow someone, then we must be able to hear and obey the instructions of the one we are following.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14


Notice our “debt” of obedience is not to the flesh, to obey the lustful cravings and desires of the flesh, but rather we are to “by the Spirit” put to death, to crucify the sinful deeds and works of the flesh.


I think you will agree.


Notice what grace teaches us —


For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, Titus 2:11


So, in the New Covenant, unlike the old, we are taught by the Spirit, and led by the Spirit, because we have been born of the Spirit, which is called the Spirit of grace as well as the Spirit of truth.



Those are some of my thoughts on being under grace.



There are laws and commandments involved in any Covenant. The unique thing about the New Covenant is the laws and commandments are written on our heart and mind.




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
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If you abolish the law, you abolish holiness as well.

The law of Moses that was added, was always temporary.

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19


The law of Christ and the law of sin and death are not the law of Moses.


Remember that Abraham kept His laws and commandments 430 years before Moses gave the law.


And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5


  • because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.


Let’s keep the discussion open to new understanding and based solely in the scriptures.



Under the law means; under obligation to obey the law.

Likewise under grace means; under obligation to obey grace, the Spirit of grace.

IOW, to be led by the Spirit means we follow the Holy Spirit. If we follow someone, then we must be able to hear and obey the instructions of the one we are following.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14


Notice our “debt” of obedience is not to the flesh, to obey the lustful cravings and desires of the flesh, but rather we are to “by the Spirit” put to death, to crucify the sinful deeds and works of the flesh.


I think you will agree.


Notice what grace teaches us —


For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, Titus 2:11


So, in the New Covenant, unlike the old, we are taught by the Spirit, and led by the Spirit, because we have been born of the Spirit, which is called the Spirit of grace as well as the Spirit of truth.



Those are some of my thoughts on being under grace.



There are laws and commandments involved in any Covenant. The unique thing about the New Covenant is the laws and commandments are written on our heart and mind.




JPT
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Aren't the law of commandments contained in ordinances the ceremonial law?
No; the law is a unit. There aren't components as you imply. We see this in Galatians 3:10 and James 2:10:

Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
 
F

FollowingtheWay

Guest
I've heard other sincere believers say that since Jesus kept the Laws of Moses we should keep them or at least try and somehow that is following Him. Is this what Jesus was talking about in these passages?



Mathew 5:17-20 Jesus said, Do not think that I came to destroy the law and the prophets. No , I have not come to destroy them , but to fulfil them... whoever breaks the least of these commandment , and teaches men so, he will be called the least in the kingdom....

Mathew 5 verse 20 For I(JESUS) say to you, unless your rightousness exceeds the rightousness of the scribes and the pharisees, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

In verse 17, Jesus said we're teach and do the law of Moses to be great in the kingdom and in verse 20 Jesus said unless your rightousness exceeds the rightousness of the Law you'll in no case enter the kingdom of heaven.
Are we to do both, keep the Law of Moses like Jesus, and keep Jesus words in red . Would that be exceeding the scribes and pharisees rightousness?
“And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22‬:‭37‬-‭40‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.22.40.ESV

So to my understanding is the deeper question we ask ourselves .Are we Loving the Lord with all our heart, soul and mind? What does loving the Lord look like practically? How are we loving our neighbors? My understanding with these in our full view and intention and the full work of Christ s atonement of all our sins past present and future we are made righteous through Jesus and have obeyed the law as we abide in Christs finished work on the cross, and placing our hope in the resurrected life with Christ as our firm foundation. We can look to Jesus as the author and perfecter of our faith.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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No; the law is a unit. There aren't components as you imply. We see this in Galatians 3:10 and James 2:10:

Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
If you go back to the post I quoted the point being made was that the law was abolished. I believe Matt 5:17 says the law was fulfilled. How do you reconcile the verses given what you have shared?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,366
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If you go back to the post I quoted the point being made was that the law was abolished. I believe Matt 5:17 says the law was fulfilled. How do you reconcile the verses given what you have shared?
Simple: attempting to be right with God means either trusting in Christ or following the law perfectly and completely. Since the latter is impossible, the only rational choice is trusting in Christ. That is consistent with the law being both "fulfilled" and "abolished".