Is personal prophecy scriptural?

[Magenta]

so as you can see i had no idea you where implying i had wrote it

I never made any such implication. You continually erroneously assume and falsely accuse.

Not only that, you completely ignore what is said to stay the course of your repetitive inaccurate rambles.

Since you consider expressing my opinion as being very rude, what does that make you?

I spell it . H - Y - P - O - C - R - I - T - E.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Is it possible that your "discerning of the Holy Spirit" is wrong?
Just maybe?

Considering, the Majority of Church Fathers, associated closely to the Apostles, including, Paul, and they claim, Paul meant, when we SEE Jesus Face to Face, so I am not worried that I am.

 

[ResidentAlien]

You are side stepping the question. I will ask it again. If Paul meant the return of Jesus Christ as the "perfect" why not just say so?

Jesus will not come, He will return. It is the "perfect" that will come.

Jesus is never named as the "perfect". The Father is described as being perfect but not as the "perfect".

The word "perfect" in this verse is written as a term for something that is unknown.

What it is and when it is coming is not precisely told but the ceasing of prophecy is a hallmark of its arrival.

You're making some good points. What do you think Paul meant when he said in v.13: "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known."

What does "then" mean? Does it mean when the perfect comes? And if so, it sounds like it's something Paul himself will participate in. So the perfect must be something that occurred while Paul was still alive or will happen at a future point. What do you think?

 

[Lamar]

I looked it up and then quickly researched the connection to why you would have access to such a term, from your church teaching.
And to Label that to those who are Continuist is Stupid!

How I explained God opens my eyes while reading His Holy Word, is same way as ALL Pastors I know and associate with do.

So, to think other Denominations use this towards Continuist as explanation, shows just a level of ignorance one can become.

I will ask the question again.

Since you admit you don't know what esoteric knowledge is, why would you label it "stupid" and "idiotic"?

Before you looked up its meaning, how did you know it was "stupid" and "idiotic"?

If you are not willing to answer such a simple question, I suggest your discernment is lacking.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

If Jesus is the "perfect" Paul would have said so.

Do you have KNOWLEDGE, to know, since, according to your Theory, Knowledge/Prophecy would not be in existence now, to really know why you Believe in Cessation?

Since Knowledge clearly exists, like Prophecy and Tongues, I posses the Knowledge to Know it has Continued!

You, KEEP, living in the Dark, without Knowledge!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I will ask the question again.

Since you admit you don't know what esoteric knowledge is, why would you label it "stupid" and "idiotic"?

Before you looked up its meaning, how did you know it was "stupid" and "idiotic"?

If you are not willing to answer such a simple question, I suggest your discernment is lacking.

I already knew what esoteric was, because, I have seen that be used to explain, phenoms.
The Knowledge portion, just, is a complete and utter Joke!

 

[Beckie]

you are verry rude

this was my post mentioning the sons of jacob hours befor i posted the source about jacobs sons the one I was thinking of was a son of Jacob who was thrown in a well who was able to interpret dreams with his colourful raincoat



this was your first post to me you knew allready it was not something i had wrote.



expand...Are you Seventh Day Adventist?

https://adventistreview.org/magazine-article/jacobs-gift-of-prophecy/

That is where I found the source of your post.


this is your first post to me above which you knew allready it was not something i had wrote.
so i could i have known you where going to assume what you did assume after my next responce
this is my responce

What's an SDa and my source of information is a 12 months study at least.

i knew already knew that it was not something you where assuming i had wrote I thought you knew I had not wrote it.
i simply called it my source of infomation and not something i had wrote.

this is your reply
Are you saying you wrote that article?

this is my reply

have no idea what this is, is it a religion
And no I did not write the source why would you ask me theese things.


so as you can see i had no idea you where implying i had wrote it at first because you said this is where you got your source.

so if you call it your source of infomation meaning me, then your also saying this is my source of information.

That is why I called it my source of information

so once again you have chosen to insult me for this and really there was no need.

you are dishonest

 

[Lamar]

You're making some good points. What do you think Paul meant when he said in v.13: "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known."

What does "then" mean? Does it mean when the perfect comes? And if so, it sounds like it's something Paul himself will participate in. So the perfect must be something that occurred while Paul was still alive or will happen at a future point. What do you think?

Both.
I suggest that the Word of God (Bible) is the "perfect".

Paul certainly played a part in it and it is now our Sword of Truth.

Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the Word of God.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

From:
Church Fathers

Against Heresies: Book V
“For now,” he says, “we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but then face to face.”44924492 1 Cor. xiii. 9, 12. And this it is which has been said also by Peter: “Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom now also, not seeing, ye believe; and believing, ye shall rejoice with joy unspeakable.”44934493 1 Pet. i. 8. For our face shall see the face of the Lord 44944494 Grabe, Massuet, and Stieren prefer to read, “the face of the living God;” while Harvey adopts the above, reading merely “Domini,” and not “Dei vivi.” and shall rejoice with joy unspeakable,—that is to say, when it shall behold its own Delight.

When we SEE Jesus Face to Face, is the Perfect to Come!

 

[Lamar]

I already knew what esoteric was, because, I have seen that be used to explain, phenoms.
The Knowledge portion, just, is a complete and utter Joke!

Correct, esoteric knowledge is bogus. Yet those today who claim to get supernatural understandings from God are part of that "complete and utter joke".

Except you of course.

 

[FollowingtheWay]

You're making some good points. What do you think Paul meant when he said in v.13: "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known."

What does "then" mean? Does it mean when the perfect comes? And if so, it sounds like it's something Paul himself will participate in. So the perfect must be something that occurred while Paul was still alive or will happen at a future point. What do you think?

perhaps it has to do with this. Are we all familiar with what a veil does? What was veiled in the OT? Gods Glory. We for now see Gods glory dimly through us as divine image bearers but soon we will see clearly as we are transformed and when we get to see Christ face to face who is the embodiment of God. We will see perfectly.

“Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭17‬-‭18‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[ResidentAlien]

Both.
I suggest that the Word of God (Bible) is the "perfect".

Paul certainly played a part in it and it is now our Sword of Truth.

Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the Word of God.

I don't really see how it could possibly be the Bible. The Bible wasn't completed until Paul was long gone so how could he "know" and see "face to face" with it when it didn't exist till he was dead? I don't claim to know the answer, but I've never been at peace with the Bible theory.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Correct, esoteric knowledge is bogus. Yet those today who claim to get supernatural understandings from God are part of that "complete and utter joke".

Except you of course.

Church Fathers claim the Gifts Continued.
If this is true, then you, really are talking out of your own mind and lack of Knowledge and understanding.

 

[Lamar]

We are still in the midst of the large story God is telling in the Bible. Speaking in terms of a play- act 1 of the story was creation, act 2 -was the fall of humanity, Act3 - was Jesus death resurrection, assention, If Christs return is in act 4 of the story than we and the early Church are still in act 3. Just because we see the end or renewal written in Rev doesn’t mean we are outside the story of the Bible . The church is still being built up just as it was in The book of Acts and we find ourselves currently living somewhere in that part of the Bible.

Agreed but are we in a "midst" of the miraculous?

Miraculous ages were very rare in the Bible. What makes people think that we are living in one today?

 

[Lamar]

Church Fathers claim the Gifts Continued.
If this is true, then you, really are talking out of your own mind and lack of Knowledge and understanding.

I have no issue with the gifts still being active during the age of the Church Fathers .

The issue is about today, have you forgotten?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I have no issue with the gifts still being active during the age of the Church Fathers .

The issue is about today, have you forgotten?

You are being Selective, though, about which, you want to accept, from the Church Fathers.
They say, Perfect to Come, means, when we see Jesus.
That means, CESSATION, is unbiblical!
Therefore, That means, the Gifts, have never ceased.
They Continue!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I don't really see how it could possibly be the Bible. The Bible wasn't completed until Paul was long gone so how could he "know" and see "face to face" with it when it didn't exist till he was dead? I don't claim to know the answer, but I've never been at peace with the Bible theory.

This is one of the Best Reasons, I've been able to ever witness, towards this Topic.

 

[FollowingtheWay]

Agreed but are we in a "midst" of the miraculous?

Miraculous ages were very rare in the Bible. What makes people think that we are living in one today?

Why wouldn’t we be in the midst of the miraculous? When in scripture can we see that has ever ceased? Perhaps we don’t see it with our own eyes so we think it’s not possible. If evil is still on the loose which it clearly is. Satan, the prince of this world is still out there stealing killing and destroying everything not under the divine protection of God then why would God not continue to work the supernatural. We are still tasked to build the kingdom with God,and we know that God equips the saints for every good work so why wouldn’t the miracles be possible. I’m reminded of a quote I found related to this. And it follows.

According to Cornelius a Lapide, Thomas Aquinas once called on Pope Innocent II when the latter was counting out a large sum of money. “You see, Thomas,” said the Pope, “the church can no longer say, ‘Silver and gold have I none.’” “True, holy father,” was the reply; “neither can she now say, ‘Rise and walk.’”
Cited by F. F. Bruce, The Book of Acts, Revised Edition (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1988), 77–78

perhaps we still have the ability to be filled with Holy Spirit enough to do the supernatural but does the Holy Spirit have all of us so we can be enabled to do what is miraculous. God isn’t going to give humans the miraculous powers without knowing we can wield that power for His Kingdom appropriately

 

[Seddrik]

Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to the apostles with a mission to reveal all truth.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The apostles wrote that down by inspiration.

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

When we read it, we can understand the same message the apostles received.

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Scripture makes complete. Thus, Scripture must itself complete to accomplish this. I.e. “all truth” Jesus promised has been given in the scripture.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The faith has been once for all time delivered. Does it need to be revealed again?

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Understanding this completed miraculous, revelatory work of the Holy Spirit; read:

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

The Spirit said prophecies, tongues and revealed knowledge will cease. The obvious question is when?

v10 when the perfect comes. what is the perfect here? The parts are revelations, so the perfect (complete) is composed of those parts.

The childhood described v11, seeing dimly v. 12 are both illustrations of the beginning of the Spirits work in revealing the Gospel piece by piece, letter by letter to the apostles. But when that completed revelation is given, then there is no more need for ongoing revelations.

Like a puzzle, once you place the last piece do you go back to the box look for more? No. It is completed.

The perfect, in context, is made up of the identified parts. This cannot be a reference to Christ, because when Christ returns there will be miracles anew (resurrection, world on fire, etc).

Thus, modern claims of miracles & revelations & prophecies find themselves unsupported by the Word of the Spirit.

 

[Lamar]

I don't really see how it could possibly be the Bible. The Bible wasn't completed until Paul was long gone so how could he "know" and see "face to face" with it when it didn't exist till he was dead? I don't claim to know the answer, but I've never been at peace with the Bible theory.

Agreed.
There are holes in this theory. But it is the best suggestion I have.
Do you have any other ideas?