Christ kept the Law of Moses, so....

[Quartodeciman]

Personally, I think that the things mentioned at the Jerusalem Council for the gentiles to do was a capitulation and not meant for doctrine. I just don't think that it was a Spirit lead decision.

[Cough] What? Do you still have that page in your Bible with 2nd Tim 3:16? And.. [head shaking] the Jerusalem council were NOT lead of the Spirit?

 

[Quartodeciman]

1 Corinthians 6:12
“All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.”

1 Corinthians 10:23
“All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.”

"All things are lawful for me" literally means Paul considered the Law in all that he did. For example, do you believe it was lawful (ie. permissible [sic]) for Paul to commit sodomy? Paul didn't (Acts 25:8).

 

[Ted01]

[Cough] What? Do you still have that page in your Bible with 2nd Tim 3:16? And.. [head shaking] the Jerusalem council were NOT lead of the Spirit?

Do you suppose that all of Scripture is about things that we ought to do... or does it contain lessons about what not to do?
(I'm led by the Holy Spirit too... but, still get things wrong from time to time).

 

[cv5]

There is nothing whatsoever like YHVH Himself dictating the law here bro. Not even close.
Just some homespun solid Jewish advice about clean living is all.....

Upon review, these ordinances are recapitulations from Leviticus. Therefore, yes, they are in a sense "laws" per se.
However, we are not "under the law" as were the Israelites.
They were required to be obedient to be saved.
We are saved to be obedient.

Lev 19:26
Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

Lev 26:1
Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

 

[Cameron143]

Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated. Naturally I've read and believe the same Scripture that you've quoted, but that isn't answering my question. I'll try another way. Christ observed the Lord's Passover with His disciples (Luke 22). During the Passover Christ said that He will eat the Passover again when it is fulfilled in the Kingdom. If Christ revealing Himself as the Passover Lamb necessarily ends the observance of the Lord's Passover then why does Christ intend to observe it again?

In Matt 26:29 Jesus said He would not drink of the wine until He drank it new with the disciples in the Father's kingdom. No mention of Passover.
Also, the institution of Communion as a memorial to His death is what is continued, not Passover.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If Christ revealing Himself as the Passover Lamb necessarily ends the observance of the Lord's Passover then why does Christ intend to observe it again?

It would seem that the Passover meal will be re-enacted in the future Kingdom of God. But we do not know enough about this.

 

[cv5]

Upon review, these ordinances are recapitulations from Leviticus. Therefore, yes, they are in a sense "laws" per se.
However, we are not "under the law" as were the Israelites.
They were required to be obedient to be saved.
We are saved to be obedient.

Lev 19:26
Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

Lev 26:1
Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Better stated:
Be obedient and live.....for Israel under the law.
Live and be obedient......as born again Christians.

 

[Quartodeciman]

Exactly as i said, the truth about circumcision leaves 2 possible conclusions - and you chose that "jots and tittles are being removed from the Law all the time" - going further, that they are also added to the Law.

Rendering Matthew 5:18 null, in your position.

Has then all been fulfilled?

Not my conversation, but, no.

 

[Quartodeciman]

It would seem that the Passover meal will be re-enacted in the future Kingdom of God. But we do not know enough about this.

Sooo, the Law IS the standard for righteousness for God's people in the past and in the future, but just not now?

 

[Quartodeciman]

Its all straining gnats and counting mint and rue as far as I can tell.

But no worries.....we are the Kings kids.

Rom 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Rom 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
Rom 8:16
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Hmmm. Yes, some profitable and some unprofitable servants.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Sooo, the Law IS the standard for righteousness for God's people in the past and in the future, but just not now?

How did you jump to this conclusion? The Ten Commandments are embedded in the Law of Christ (the Law of Love).

 

[oyster67]

"All things are lawful for me" literally means Paul considered the Law in all that he did. For example, do you believe it was lawful (ie. permissible [sic]) for Paul to commit sodomy? Paul didn't (Acts 25:8).

Quite to the contrary. Paul emphasized liberty. Your postings seem to envision a NT Church with absolutely no spiritual mooring whatsoever. That was not the True Church. The OT Law cannot provide this necessary mooring and cannot be used as a substitute. It is now the Spirit that gives us aid as we build upon the Cornerstone, which is Jesus.

You seem to be attributing the wickedness of the early and modern "Church" to a lack of understanding OT Law. Please take a closer look. These "Churches" were and are filled to overflowing with men who have neither intention nor desire to walk in His (Jesus') light. The Pharisees were masters of the Law, but it got them nowhere either. They loved to swat at leaves also, but they never laid the axe to the root of their problems nor those of their followers.

 

[cv5]

Sooo, the Law IS the standard for righteousness for God's people in the past and in the future, but just not now?

The Law of Christ. You have never heard of it?
Gal 6:2
Rom 8:2
Rom 10:4
Gal 2:16
Gal 2:21
Gal 5:4
Phl 3:9

 

[oyster67]

Sooo, the Law IS the standard for righteousness for God's people in the past and in the future, but just not now?

Perhaps it might be helpful to remind you that our focus today is on the Way of Salvation, who is Jesus. Today our focus is on a Man, not a religion. This Man is Jesus. Today our focus is on a relationship, not an ancient code of does and don'ts. The OT Law can teach us some things, but I pray that it will not be a distracting stumbling block for yourself and others.

John 14:6
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

 

[Quartodeciman]

Ex 19 - God promised to make Israel a nation of priests if they obeyed. The people agreed to the covenant that they would obey the voice of God.

Ex 20 - 3 days later, the covenant was ratified in blood and the voice spoke the commandments, but people couldn't bear to hear the voice.

Ex 20-23 - So the judgments are spoken to Moses.

Ex 24:1-3 - Moses tells all the judgments to the people and they agree to obey.

Ex 24:7 - Moses reads "all the words in the book of the covenant" and again the people agreed to obey. All the words of the covenant are the commandments and judgments. No sacrificing was mentioned. Look it up. Blood is sprinkled on the people. Ratified.

Ex 24:12-13 - Moses is told to come to get the tablets of stone and the law to teach the people.

Ex 25-31 - Instructions for the tabernacle, a priesthood, and purifying the altar/blood, as well as the tablets are given to Moses so that God can dwell among the people.

----

Note: At this point, the book was completed, the law was completed, and the tablets were completed. No offering for sin & iniquity was ever mentioned. No works to remedy sin & iniquity were mentioned. [Font color added by responder].

First, to be clear, I'm in full support of most of what you've said in this thread, but, looking at the words in red above, there is mention of sin offerings in Exo 29:14,36; 30:10. Right?

 

[Quartodeciman]

The Law of Christ. You have never heard of it?
Gal 6:2
Rom 8:2
Rom 10:4
Gal 2:16
Gal 2:21
Gal 5:4
Phl 3:9

Thanks. I thought you might say that. Since your misuse of those Scriptures has already been adequately addressed I will ignore your response.

What I'm asking for here is for the antinomians to explain the logic behind a supposed temporary abolition of God's Law. If, as Paul says, it is Holy, just, and good, then what do you propose is God's purpose in getting rid of it only to bring it back again later?

 

[Quartodeciman]

Perhaps it might be helpful to remind you that our focus today is on the Way of Salvation, who is Jesus. Today our focus is on a Man, not a religion. This Man is Jesus. Today our focus is on a relationship, not an ancient code of does and don'ts. The OT Law can teach us some things, but I pray that it will not be a distracting stumbling block for yourself and others.

John 14:6
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

And that Man tells His people to keep His/God's commandments (Mat 5:17-19; Joh 14:15; 15:10; et al). No obedience = no relationship.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1st Cor 6:9-10)

Salvation without repentance is just a fairytale. Sorry.

 

[Quartodeciman]

Praise be to God....I believe that once you are saved and you walk with God, you do not try to keep the law for the one who fulfilled the law is inside you...from there it's faith and always seeking grace and mercy

Sooo... A man can now dress as a woman, as long as he has "faith" and is "always seeking grace and mercy"? I'm not trying to be contentious. I would just like to see a real world example of this schema you propose.

 

[Quartodeciman]

Amen! But which law are we talking about? The moral law? Yes. The mosaic law? Certainly not. Such was given to the nation of Israel only, which is not for today. If it was, children not born of lawful marriage would have a problem...
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.
Deuteronomy 23:2

Remember, we cannot pick and choose...

1st John 3:4 refers to God's Law. It includes commandments such as -

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." (Lev 18:22)

Hence, homosexuality is sin.

And, I can assure you, neither the homosexual men of the unlawful marriage nor their child are permitted to enter into the Lord's congregation.

There is no such thing as a "moral law" ever mentioned in Scripture as though it were a subsection of God's Law. ALL of God's laws determine the right or wrong in human behaviour.

 

[cv5]

Thanks. I thought you might say that. Since your misuse of those Scriptures has already been adequately addressed I will ignore your response.

What I'm asking for here is for the antinomians to explain the logic behind a supposed temporary abolition of God's Law. If, as Paul says, it is Holy, just, and good, then what do you propose is God's purpose in getting rid of it only to bring it back again later?

"God's Law"? Which package and what era?

As for "proposing.....getting rid of it", I need not exert myself in the least to wrestle with that question, as it has already been answered in the most exorbitant manner imaginable.

BTW, the Church is not "under the law"......we are "under grace". Just to let you know.

Rom 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.