How to love your family, when God hates the nonelects?
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Yes, a bit too too dark... how about this instead? .
Ezekiel 18:4 plus 32
Ezekiel 18:4 plus 32
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God is Love, this is the first and foremost attribute of God, everything else is within this essence of God is love.
We know this because of the first commandment,
Calvinists really mess up the character of God to make their system work!!!
(from the internet!!)
What do you think "holy" means?
We know this because of the first commandment,
Calvinists really mess up the character of God to make their system work!!!
(from the internet!!)
What do you think "holy" means?
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Jesus did not preach or teach Calvinism. That Scripture doesn't teach it either.
That wasn't my point. My point is God did not create elect people and then damn the rest to hell. Hell is a choice.
Don't really think hell is a humorous situation. You are taking snippets of what I'm saying and that is unfair. I'm saying God did not CREATE people to go to hell. Of course people who don't accept Christ will go to hell, but that is their CHOICE.
Here is my quote. You are cutting up my comments to make them say something other than what I meant for them to say. Please use my full quote.
Here is what my quote was ...
"No where does the Bible teach that only an elect few can be saved and the rest go to hell, not from their own choosing, but God CREATED them to be destroyed."
So random verses taken out of context adds what to the conversation?! God did not create a people to be saved and a people to be damned. He did not create a people that are unable to be saved, who are without hope and damned before they begin life. The Bible does not teach it and those Scriptures don't either.
Don't you ever speak that lie again !! I count very seriously the lives and the souls of people that came to the Lord. We preached the Word. And that comment is an utter and vile lie. A keyboard warrior is not going to tell me that sharing the Gospel where people are saved, marriages are healed, people come out of bondage of drugs is easy believism. That is falsehood.
Well, we aren't following the Gospel according to Iconoclast, and the the Lord for that! We are following what the Word says, and the verses were already shared. Those who believe on Him are saved. You can try and bar the way a hundred different ways, but the Bible tells who can be saved, how they are saved, and that they can know they are saved and on their way to heaven. That's what the Word says, that's what we preached. There is no other Gospel according to Calvin.
This proves what I am saying, not what you are saying! You won't believe me ( choice) you won't listen to me (choice) !! If you believe Calvinism that person CANNOT hear, believe, or obey because God already created them with a defect, they're going to hell. This is saying you have a choice, you have a will , you won't believe me, you won't hear me, that's choice. They can hear, they can believe, they CHOOSE not to do either. You made my point, thanks.
Fact is fact whether you like it or you don't. Before you stand behind Calvins "gospel", you might want to learn something about the man himself. No "man" keeps me from the Truth!! I have the Word, I don't need Calvin.
They HATE this!!
Romans 1:
19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them.
20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse—
21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks.
This Verse 21, explains that Scientists, world known Atheists, every HUMAN that looked up and gazed at the stars, flew and observed the landscape, traveled by water and discovered the wind patterns and natural disaster pathways, can walk mountain trails, tourist bike trails, hiking, so many things to get out there and SEE what God did at Creation and still here today. And, it especially includes those who are Now Saved.
Are?
Paul said: "for God has shown it to them, So people are without excuse, for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God
Romans 1:
19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them.
20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse—
21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks.
This Verse 21, explains that Scientists, world known Atheists, every HUMAN that looked up and gazed at the stars, flew and observed the landscape, traveled by water and discovered the wind patterns and natural disaster pathways, can walk mountain trails, tourist bike trails, hiking, so many things to get out there and SEE what God did at Creation and still here today. And, it especially includes those who are Now Saved.
Are?
Paul said: "for God has shown it to them, So people are without excuse, for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God
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Did I mention Calvin at all?
Can you show a direst quote where Calvin says God lies?
Can you show a direct quote where Calvin says God is cruel?
Or are you hiding behind a shallow mention of Calvin because you cannot respond to what is being offered?
I doubt you have read much if any Calvin.
Calvin lived his life before God and will answer to God based on his life then.
We answer for ourselves. You were not around where Calvin lived, so rather than repeat half truths, deal with the scriptures at hand.
Can you show a direst quote where Calvin says God lies?
Can you show a direct quote where Calvin says God is cruel?
Or are you hiding behind a shallow mention of Calvin because you cannot respond to what is being offered?
I doubt you have read much if any Calvin.
Calvin lived his life before God and will answer to God based on his life then.
We answer for ourselves. You were not around where Calvin lived, so rather than repeat half truths, deal with the scriptures at hand.
Calvin doesn't say God lies, He makes God a liar when he twists Scripture to say something it doesn't. Like Jesus didn't die for the world, or that He doesn't love the sinner and wish for them to be saved.
Calvin doesn't say God is cruel, his beliefs do. To teach that God created a people to be destroyed, that their only purpose is for hell and they cannot be saved, then yes, that is cruel and that is not God.
I can respond night and day with what is being offered, not one question yet I haven't answered using the Word.
Oh trust me, we've gotten a snoot full of Calvin here, more than we ever wanted.
I think you are either very naive or you know exactly what I'm talking about. There is such a thing as history, and I think you better do some reading before you accuse a fellow Christian of half truths.
Calvin doesn't say God is cruel, his beliefs do. To teach that God created a people to be destroyed, that their only purpose is for hell and they cannot be saved, then yes, that is cruel and that is not God.
I can respond night and day with what is being offered, not one question yet I haven't answered using the Word.
Oh trust me, we've gotten a snoot full of Calvin here, more than we ever wanted.
I think you are either very naive or you know exactly what I'm talking about. There is such a thing as history, and I think you better do some reading before you accuse a fellow Christian of half truths.
ThereRoseaLamb,
TRL, let's see what you have got! Looks like an emotional rant, devoid of facts.
[Jesus did not preach or teach Calvinism.]
Sure He did. This tells us you have no clue, no idea what the teaching is.
[That Scripture doesn't teach it either.]
Again it is clear you are not well studied on either account, I would not point that out, except you are getting hostile.
[That wasn't my point. My point is God did not create elect people and then damn the rest to hell. ]
God considered mankind as fallen, and headed for hell, In love and mercy he elected a multitude to be saved.
You fail to understand the confessional statement.
[Hell is a choice.]
Wrong again, sin is the choice that sinners are bound to. hell is the consequence.
[Don't really think hell is a humorous situation. You are taking snippets of what I'm saying and that is unfair. I'm saying God did not CREATE people to go to hell.]
No one said He did, but you made that suggestion.
[Of course people who don't accept Christ will go to hell, but that is their CHOICE.]
Men are bound by sin since the fall/It is not a choice but rather the default position of the natural man.
[Here is my quote. You are cutting up my comments to make them say something other than what I meant for them to say. Please use my full quote]
Here is what my quote was ...
"No where does the Bible teach that only an elect few can be saved and the rest go to hell, not from their own choosing, but God CREATED them to be destroyed."]
Your quote is a confused mess of contradictions and caricatures
[So random verses taken out of context adds what to the conversation?! God did not create a people to be saved and a people to be damned. He did not create a people that are unable to be saved, who are without hope and damned before they begin life. The Bible does not teach it and those Scriptures don't either. ]
Most of the problem is right here. You have no clue, what happened at creation and the fall.
[Don't you ever speak that lie again !! I count very seriously the lives and the souls of people that came to the Lord. We preached the Word. And that comment is an utter and vile lie. A keyboard warrior is not going to tell me that sharing the Gospel where people are saved, marriages are healed, people come out of bondage of drugs is easy believism. That is falsehood.]
All who teach easy believism do not own it, hopefully, God uses what you did for His glory
[Well, we aren't following the Gospel according to Iconoclast, and the the Lord for that! We are following what the Word says, and the verses were already shared. Those who believe on Him are saved. You can try and bar the way a hundred different ways, but the Bible tells who can be saved, how they are saved, and that they can know they are saved and on their way to heaven. That's what the Word says, that's what we preached. There is no other Gospel according to Calvin.]
More emotional nonsense. No facts, No understanding.
[This proves what I am saying, not what you are saying! You won't believe me ( choice) you won't listen to me (choice) !! If you believe Calvinism that person CANNOT hear, believe, or obey because God already created them with a defect, they're going to hell. This is saying you have a choice, you have a will , you won't believe me, you won't hear me, that's choice. They can hear, they can believe, they CHOOSE not to do either. You made my point, thanks.]
No...it proves you have a man centered point of view. A man centered theology
[Fact is fact whether you like it or you don't. Before you stand behind Calvins "gospel", you might want to learn something about the man himself. No "man" keeps me from the Truth!! I have the Word, I don't need Calvin.]
You insert Calvin, who you know nothing about, to avoid showing that you do not know the word as you should.
TRL, let's see what you have got! Looks like an emotional rant, devoid of facts.
[Jesus did not preach or teach Calvinism.]
Sure He did. This tells us you have no clue, no idea what the teaching is.
[That Scripture doesn't teach it either.]
Again it is clear you are not well studied on either account, I would not point that out, except you are getting hostile.
[That wasn't my point. My point is God did not create elect people and then damn the rest to hell. ]
God considered mankind as fallen, and headed for hell, In love and mercy he elected a multitude to be saved.
You fail to understand the confessional statement.
[Hell is a choice.]
Wrong again, sin is the choice that sinners are bound to. hell is the consequence.
[Don't really think hell is a humorous situation. You are taking snippets of what I'm saying and that is unfair. I'm saying God did not CREATE people to go to hell.]
No one said He did, but you made that suggestion.
[Of course people who don't accept Christ will go to hell, but that is their CHOICE.]
Men are bound by sin since the fall/It is not a choice but rather the default position of the natural man.
[Here is my quote. You are cutting up my comments to make them say something other than what I meant for them to say. Please use my full quote]
Here is what my quote was ...
"No where does the Bible teach that only an elect few can be saved and the rest go to hell, not from their own choosing, but God CREATED them to be destroyed."]
Your quote is a confused mess of contradictions and caricatures
[So random verses taken out of context adds what to the conversation?! God did not create a people to be saved and a people to be damned. He did not create a people that are unable to be saved, who are without hope and damned before they begin life. The Bible does not teach it and those Scriptures don't either. ]
Most of the problem is right here. You have no clue, what happened at creation and the fall.
[Don't you ever speak that lie again !! I count very seriously the lives and the souls of people that came to the Lord. We preached the Word. And that comment is an utter and vile lie. A keyboard warrior is not going to tell me that sharing the Gospel where people are saved, marriages are healed, people come out of bondage of drugs is easy believism. That is falsehood.]
All who teach easy believism do not own it, hopefully, God uses what you did for His glory
[Well, we aren't following the Gospel according to Iconoclast, and the the Lord for that! We are following what the Word says, and the verses were already shared. Those who believe on Him are saved. You can try and bar the way a hundred different ways, but the Bible tells who can be saved, how they are saved, and that they can know they are saved and on their way to heaven. That's what the Word says, that's what we preached. There is no other Gospel according to Calvin.]
More emotional nonsense. No facts, No understanding.
[This proves what I am saying, not what you are saying! You won't believe me ( choice) you won't listen to me (choice) !! If you believe Calvinism that person CANNOT hear, believe, or obey because God already created them with a defect, they're going to hell. This is saying you have a choice, you have a will , you won't believe me, you won't hear me, that's choice. They can hear, they can believe, they CHOOSE not to do either. You made my point, thanks.]
No...it proves you have a man centered point of view. A man centered theology
[Fact is fact whether you like it or you don't. Before you stand behind Calvins "gospel", you might want to learn something about the man himself. No "man" keeps me from the Truth!! I have the Word, I don't need Calvin.]
You insert Calvin, who you know nothing about, to avoid showing that you do not know the word as you should.
"ThereRoseaLamb,
[Calvin doesn't say God lies, He makes God a liar when he twists Scripture to say something it doesn't.]
That is you twisting things, your wrong understanding.
[Like Jesus didn't die for the world, or that He doesn't love the sinner and wish for them to be saved.]
These are separate topics that i Do not think you can defend biblically. Stop hiding behind Calvin
[Calvin doesn't say God is cruel, his beliefs do. To teach that God created a people to be destroyed, that their only purpose is for hell and they cannot be saved, then yes, that is cruel and that is not God.]
You cannot show Calvinists teach this. Show me where the 1689 confession teaches or offers verses saying this!
[I can respond night and day with what is being offered, not one question yet I haven't answered using the Word.]
Not in the posts to me.
[Oh trust me, we've gotten a snoot full of Calvin here, more than we ever wanted.]
From a mainstream Calvinists eyes, you are fighting strawmen, not biblical Calvinism.
[I think you are either very naive or you know exactly what I'm talking about. There is such a thing as history, and I think you better do some reading before you accuse a fellow Christian of half truths.]
I am very simple, but will look to scripture. Bring whatever you have got my friend.
[Calvin doesn't say God lies, He makes God a liar when he twists Scripture to say something it doesn't.]
That is you twisting things, your wrong understanding.
[Like Jesus didn't die for the world, or that He doesn't love the sinner and wish for them to be saved.]
These are separate topics that i Do not think you can defend biblically. Stop hiding behind Calvin
[Calvin doesn't say God is cruel, his beliefs do. To teach that God created a people to be destroyed, that their only purpose is for hell and they cannot be saved, then yes, that is cruel and that is not God.]
You cannot show Calvinists teach this. Show me where the 1689 confession teaches or offers verses saying this!
[I can respond night and day with what is being offered, not one question yet I haven't answered using the Word.]
Not in the posts to me.
[Oh trust me, we've gotten a snoot full of Calvin here, more than we ever wanted.]
From a mainstream Calvinists eyes, you are fighting strawmen, not biblical Calvinism.
[I think you are either very naive or you know exactly what I'm talking about. There is such a thing as history, and I think you better do some reading before you accuse a fellow Christian of half truths.]
I am very simple, but will look to scripture. Bring whatever you have got my friend.
Better to quit believing in the elect. God's plan was predestined. Read it again. Those he foreknew we're predestined to be conformed to Christ' image. The conforming was predestined. Your family could get saved whenever they choose. If you can't love them you can't love God. How can you love God who you don't see if you don't love Man who you can see. That's Bible. You sound frustrated that they don't listen. Faith works patience. Just get forgiveness of hating them I suggest and love sinners. Christ died for us while we were yet sinners.
Hello Jonathan,
I would like to help you with this. You offer several topics here, all good and need to be discussed.
Quick answer is, the Apostles all believed in the elect, so it is not better to quit believing in the truth of God.
Let me offer you this;
http://vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html
I would like to help you with this. You offer several topics here, all good and need to be discussed.
Quick answer is, the Apostles all believed in the elect, so it is not better to quit believing in the truth of God.
Let me offer you this;
http://vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html
Well now you've not been able to prove a Scripture wrong that I've posted. I noticed you skipped answering most of those posts. I'd say the one trying to defend a man instead of the Word is the "emotional" one.
He didn't and many have shared Scripture here to prove that wrong.
No, you fail to understand the character of God. Love and mercy have nothing to do with a god who would send people to hell with no hope, no choice, forbidding them to even cry out to Him, no that is not the God of the Bible. That is the god of Calvin.
No, sinners can be set free of sin. Some choose to stay in sin. But God wants to set them free.
No, you did. Or is that a part of Calvinism you don't adhere to?
Sin is a choice.
It's what Scripture teaches.
I don't need to hear the TULIP talking points all over again.
I know what was preached I know God honored it, His Word doesn't return void. Don't worry yourself about it.
Prove me wrong with Scripture.
Prove it wrong with Scripture.
Third time, prove me wrong with Scripture.
He didn't and many have shared Scripture here to prove that wrong.
No, you fail to understand the character of God. Love and mercy have nothing to do with a god who would send people to hell with no hope, no choice, forbidding them to even cry out to Him, no that is not the God of the Bible. That is the god of Calvin.
No, sinners can be set free of sin. Some choose to stay in sin. But God wants to set them free.
No, you did. Or is that a part of Calvinism you don't adhere to?
Sin is a choice.
It's what Scripture teaches.
I don't need to hear the TULIP talking points all over again.
I know what was preached I know God honored it, His Word doesn't return void. Don't worry yourself about it.
Prove me wrong with Scripture.
Prove it wrong with Scripture.
Third time, prove me wrong with Scripture.