How to love your family, when God hates the nonelects?

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SilverFox7

SilverFox7

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Dec 24, 2022
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#221
Iconoclast said:
Hello SF,

God named those group of people. It is a group of sinners that God has had mercy on. It is not a "elite" group.
It is special because God has set His love on them. 2tim.1;9
Click to expand...
Amen. We are blessed to be among God's elect. The context I am referring to related to this thread are those who view their election as a special elite and predestined status above others, especially the unconverted.

I was a member of a church back in my 20s that thought we were the only "true" Church of God on earth. While we didn't categorize ourselves as elite, there was certainly a lot of pride at work. We looked at all other Christian denominations as sincere yet deceived. We went through a painful repentance process as a church and, thankfully, God changed our misguided doctrines, thinking, and most importantly our hearts and spirit.
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

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What Scripture are you quoting above?
In Gen.12-17....several times God tells Abraham that his spiritual descendants will number more than the stars of Heaven,or more the the sand in the sea.
More than man can number.
That is a multitude.
 
Snacker

Snacker

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May 10, 2023
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Iconoclast said:
What Scripture are you quoting above?
In Gen.12-17....several times God tells Abraham that his spiritual descendants will number more than the stars of Heaven,or more the the sand in the sea.
More than man can number.
That is a multitude.
Click to expand...
Exactly. He’s referring to the number of people who place their faith in Jesus Christ of their own accord by responding to the Gospel.
 
T

ThereRoseaLamb

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#226
Jan 17, 2023
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#226
Iconoclast said:
God saves His people when he wants to
You have no idea if they are elect, but not yet drawn to Jesus.
Click to expand...
No God doesn't save those He wants to he saves those who believe in Him and to His will.



1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”


Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.


We do know who is going to heaven. All kinds of other verses I could share. The Bible is clear.
 
T

ThereRoseaLamb

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Iconoclast said:
My friend, I cannot read your heart, but I can read your post! Jesus and the Apostles, and prophets all taught what is described as Calvinism.
Click to expand...

They absolutely did not!! No where does the Bible teach that only an elect few can be saved and the rest go to hell, not from their own choosing, but God CREATED them to be destroyed. Bible doesn't teach it, period.

I was in evangelism for a long time. We didn't stand up, preach the Word and say " Hey, we don't know if you got saved tonight. You may still go to hell. So, good luck with that." NO!! Those who believe ARE saved. It is not only utter nonsense, it is heresy to say that people CANNOT be saved. That is a lie from the pit of hell. Calvin as Luther stuck too much to their Catholic influences even when they came out of it. They both had issues with antisemitism, influence of the Catholic church. In many ways they did more harm than good.
 
Snacker

Snacker

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ThereRoseaLamb said:
They absolutely did not!! No where does the Bible teach that only an elect few can be saved and the rest go to hell, not from their own choosing, but God CREATED them to be destroyed. Bible doesn't teach it, period.

I was in evangelism for a long time. We didn't stand up, preach the Word and say " Hey, we don't know if you got saved tonight. You may still go to hell. So, good luck with that." NO!! Those who believe ARE saved. It is not only utter nonsense, it is heresy to say that people CANNOT be saved. That is a lie from the pit of hell. Calvin as Luther stuck too much to their Catholic influences even when they came out of it. They both had issues with antisemitism, influence of the Catholic church. In many ways they did more harm than good.
Click to expand...
In the mind of a Calvinist, Jesus feeds 5,000 people, points to three of them sitting up front and says, God has chosen you to receive salvation, but the rest of you better savor that fish and bread cause y’all are beat.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#229
Snacker said:
In the mind of a Calvinist, Jesus feeds 5,000 people, points to three of them sitting up front and says, God has chosen you to receive salvation, but the rest of you better savor that fish and bread cause y’all are beat.
Click to expand...
Calvinists usually get saved in 4's...we 4, no more, shut the door.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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#230
Cameron143 said:
Calvinists usually get saved in 4's...we 4, no more, shut the door.
Click to expand...
That's why Calvinist quadruplets are natural church leaders. Their salvation is so assured they can focus on the important things... like barring others from heaven.
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

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#231
"ThereRoseaLamb,

TRL, I am glad and thank you that you are excited enough to respond here.
However i might ask if you could clarify?

[No God doesn't save those He wants to]

God did not purpose to save anyone ?
He did not want to save people?
Was He somehow forced to save people , but really did not want to?
God had no say in who gets saved?

[he saves those who believe in Him and to His will.]

No one seeks God, or does God's will, so who are these people?


[1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”


Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.]

Good verses

[We do know who is going to heaven.]

We know the promise of God is that everyone believing will go to heaven jn3:15-16

We take people at their profession of faith, but know there are false professions of faith, Mt&:21-24

[All kinds of other verses I could share. The Bible is clear]

You have shared some good verses showing the promise. They do not tell us each person by name however.
The O.P> suggested he knew his family members are reprobate, because they failed his examination of them.
While I do believe in electon and predestination, they do not give us any special insight into a persons heart.
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

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#232
ThereRoseaLamb,

{They absolutely did not!!]

Jesus and the Apostles and prophets taught these truths as foundational doctrines Eph2:20

[No where does the Bible teach that only an elect few can be saved]

Correct, it was an elect multitude that gets saved,look here;Gen13:
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

[and the rest go to hell, ]
They do go to hell. Where do you think they go? a resort on Holiday?

[not from their own choosing,]

Really? Men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

[but God CREATED them to be destroyed. Bible doesn't teach it, period.]

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

[I was in evangelism for a long time. We didn't stand up, preach the Word and say " Hey, we don't know if you got saved tonight. You may still go to hell. So, good luck with that." NO!! ]

You preached what is known as "easy believism" which is an incomplete defective message

[Those who believe ARE saved.]

Those who believe by a God given faith are saved, Those who only make a carnal fleshly profession are lost

[It is not only utter nonsense, it is heresy to say that people CANNOT be saved.]

Not according to Jesus;
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


[That is a lie from the pit of hell. Calvin as Luther stuck too much to their Catholic influences even when they came out of it. They both had issues with antisemitism, influence of the Catholic church. In many ways they did more harm than good.]
That is your caricature, it keeps you from truth.
 
T

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
#233
Jan 17, 2023
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#233
Iconoclast said:
"ThereRoseaLamb,

TRL, I am glad and thank you that you are excited enough to respond here.
However i might ask if you could clarify?

[No God doesn't save those He wants to]

God did not purpose to save anyone ?
He did not want to save people?
Was He somehow forced to save people , but really did not want to?
God had no say in who gets saved?
Click to expand...
My quote was based on your quote. So lets be clear in what I am saying. God does not choose to save some and not others. God said in Word who is saved. I just got finished posting those verses so you can go back over them again.


Iconoclast said:
[he saves those who believe in Him and to His will.]

No one seeks God, or does God's will, so who are these people?


[1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”


Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.]

Good verses
Click to expand...
Yes, they are good verses and they are very direct. That's why I chose that group.



Iconoclast said:
[We do know who is going to heaven.]

We know the promise of God is that everyone believing will go to heaven jn3:15-16

We take people at their profession of faith, but know there are false professions of faith, Mt&:21-24
Click to expand...
But I thought you said we couldn't know who is elect? We can know who is going to heaven. So we agree on this point?


Iconoclast said:
[All kinds of other verses I could share. The Bible is clear]

You have shared some good verses showing the promise. They do not tell us each person by name however.
The O.P> suggested he knew his family members are reprobate, because they failed his examination of them.
While I do believe in electon and predestination, they do not give us any special insight into a persons heart.
Click to expand...
I have an uncle that was a drunk his whole life. Just before he died a preacher friend went and led him to the Lord in our place because we were too far away to go to him. He assured my father he now understood and he knew in his heart he was going to heaven. We pray until a persons last breath. There is hope until then.
 
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