water baptism in Jesus' Name.

[The_Watchers_2017]

Jesus did not baptize, his disciples did the baptizing. (John 4:1-2)
Also, consider that baptism in the name of Jesus was begun after His death, burial and resurrection. As Paul expressed, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?


"When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) John 4:1-2


"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed," Rom 6:3-6

I have been reading the connection between the Apostles and Church Fathers for many many years. They spoke and wrote Greek naturally as I do English. They probably understood the meaning better than even today's classified Research Experts [Scholars]. But around 70 AD, one of the Apostle John's Disciples, Papias, wrote the Original Hebrew Version of Matthew was written in the Hebrew Language. He then, furthers, by saying, they did their best to translate into the Greek. They did not understand Hebrew at all.

Then, around 375 AD, Jerome, journals he had personally not only seen this Hebrew Matthew, but that in his own Writings, he actually Translates the Hebrew Text.



Now, These weren't the only people claiming this, concerning Gospel of Matthew was originally written in the Hebrew.

Here's some Interesting facts:



Papias

Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church. After their departure, Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter. Luke also, the companion of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel preached by him. Afterwards John, the disciple of the Lord, who also had leaned upon his breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia. (Against Heresies, 3:1)

Irenaeus was a student of Polycarp, who was a student of the Apostle John. Around 170 A.D., Irenaeus confirms and elaborates upon Papias’ report:

In Papias’s writings, known as Expositions of the Oracles of the Lord, it is stated by Eusebius of Caesarea, that he wrote: ‘So then Matthew wrote the oracles in the Hebrew language, and every one interpreted them as he was able’ (in Eusebius, Church History, 3.39.16). Papias lived within 50 years after the death and resurrection of Christ.

The Bishop Papia of Hierapolis said: "Matthew gathered Jesus's loghia in a Hebrew dialect and each of them translated them (in Greek)



Origen

Among the four Gospels, which are the only indisputable ones in the Church of God under heaven, I have learned by tradition that the first was written by Matthew, who was once a publican, but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, and it was prepared for the converts from Judaism and published in the Hebrew language. (Recorded by Eusebius in Church History, 6:25)



Eusebius

For Matthew, who had at first preached to the Hebrews, when he was about to go to other peoples, committed his Gospel to writing in his native tongue, and thus compensated those whom he was obliged to leave for the loss of his presence. (Eusebius, Church History, 3:24)



Jerome (374-420 A.D.) who saw the Hebrew gospel, said he had translated it and on several occasions and he quoted from it (On Famous Men 2 & 3).



What's interesting about Jerome's claim to what Matthew wrote, much like Mark Chapter 16, where the Baptism part is mentioned, has by Scholars, and Church Fathers, it was ADDED at a later time. When you see Jerome's copy of Matthew's Hebrew Version, there is no Matthew 28:19 mention to Baptize at all. I have a pic and you can see for yourself.

https://html.scribdassets.com/2kxf83y75s5rxu97/images/83-43b2f1c838.jpg

^

been translated to English:





I am not claiming all things are legit here, this is just a Discussion.



But, if this is all factual, then Mark 16 and Matthew 28 Baptism portions were added Later.



So, I do believe in John Chapter 3 where Jesus ""is overseeing"" His Disciples "Baptize," He did have them Baptize in His Name. And they just continued doing same throughout New Testament. Even Paul is a part of this. Anyway, it's Food for Thought!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

16. But concerning Matthew he writes as follows: So then Matthew wrote the oracles in the Hebrew language, and every one interpreted them as he was able. And the same writer uses testimonies from the first Epistle of John and from that of Peter likewise. And he relates another story of a woman, who was accused of many sins before the Lord, which is contained in the Gospel according to the Hebrews. These things we have thought it necessary to observe in addition to what has been already stated.

This is Eusebius, showing how Matthew's Hebrew Version also matched portions of John's Gospel and Peter's (Mark).

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I personally believe, there's enough evidence, to give Credence, to why the Apostle's Water Baptized in Jesus Name. And to really Believe Jesus, Himself, Commanded it. Now, this has nothing to do with God, being, Who God is, Father-WORD-Holy Spirit. I just really believe Jesus Commanded to Water Baptize in His Name and it goes back to John Chapter 3.

 

[Wansvic]

Natural H2O has no power to produce Spiritual birth. It takes living water. (John 4:10,14; 7:37-39) The natural man can only seem to understand natural water. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

Water has no power, but God sure does! God instituted the command and it's associated reality. Trusting and obeying His word, when it makes no sense to your natural mind is an act of faith. Those who choose to believe and obey have their spiritual eyes open. (John 3:3)

Many fail to accept there is relevance to being water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. I ask, who was crucified for your sins? Why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling upon the NAME OF THE LORD. That name is Jesus. For there is none other name under Heaven whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12

According to Jesus except a man be born again he cannot SEE the kingdom. Seeing results from taking a step of faith.

 

[Beckie]

You are advocating the idea that we cannot understand the Bible unless we know what the words meant 400 yrs ago.

For the most part, what they meant 400 yrs ago is what they mean today.

Therefore we can understand the Bible simply by reading it and taking it at face value.

Face value of Scripture?
Do you wear sandals? Mar_6:9 But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.

Mat_5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

1Co_14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Ti_2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

Mat_5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

 

[Wansvic]

Did You actually just turn Romans 1:20 into a Regenerative type of result Verse?

A Verse, where Paul shows us specifically, it is about why Sinners will go to Hell, and it not be God's literal Fault or Choice?

Read this CORRECTLY Now:

19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them.
20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse—
21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks.

Romans 1:20 has as much to do with Regeneration or Water Baptism, as a styrofoam cup, holding gasoline!

You must be Calvinist, gotten used to cherry picking Single Verses with one Meaning and converting them into YOUR meaning, huh?

Note the initial statement applies to overall concepts. then transitions to the same concept applying to His eternal power and Godhead. Nothing in God's creation was designed haphazardly. Every minute detail parallels a spiritual truth.

Why do you suppose God designed a water filled womb from which a newborn is birthed? Think about it, He's God! He could have had the baby spring forth from a dry sack on its mother's back. But no. He choose a body of water. Think rebirth; man believes and obeys God's command being immersed in and springing forth from water. Parallel? I would say so.

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
EVEN his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:.."Rom 1:20

 

[Niki7]

27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Galatians 3

This indicates spiritual union with Christ and has nothing to do with water baptism. Absolutely nothing.

The amplified Bible makes it plain: 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ [into a spiritual union with the Christ, the Anointed] have clothed yourselves with Christ [that is, you have taken on His characteristics and values].

There is no such thing as water regeneration. Water does not cleanse from sin nor does it save us. People who teach this are not qualified to teach anyone as they themselves have yet to discern the truth.

LUKE 3:16
John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with water, but he who is mightier than I is coming, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.”

 

[Niki7]

Hi, Niki7, are there any scriptures in the New Testament that give a reason or purpose for being baptized?

Thank you,
Wayne

Yes

 

[heartwashed]

You "add" must be water baptized "in Jesus name" (only) to salvation through faith in Christ, which is faith + works and the Bible states we are saved through faith, not works, so it's just the opposite of what you said above in regards to the day of judgment. I already received water baptism after my conversion anyway, so I'm saved even according to your faith + baptism = salvation argument. Unles being water baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is not good enough for you. It was good enough for Jesus. (Matthew 28:19)

If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your answer? Because you were water baptized using the specific formula, "in Jesus name?" That's obviously what you are trusting in for salvation. My answer would be, because you died for sins, were buried and rose again the third day to provide for me eternal life. I trust in YOU as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. Praise God!

Yes, I would say because You died for me and rose again also. And I have even greater confidence because I have been identified with Him in that through water baptism in Jesus' Name.

And again, baptism is not a work; otherwise, it does not save as scripture so plainly says that it does in Acts 2:38-29, Ezekiel 36:25-27, 1 Peter 4:20-21, and Romans 6:1-4.

Matthew 28:19 baptism is in fact good enough for me if you also acknowledge that the singular name associated with the titles in that verse is "Jesus Christ"; and if you are also baptized for the remission of sins.

 

[heartwashed]

No it's not. What part of "Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus is over" and "Jesus and His disciples have moved on and came into the land of Judea" don't you understand? Also, the word "baptism" is not found in John 3:5 yet John 3:14-18 is in the immediate context which connects "believes in Him" (apart from additions or modifications) to receiving eternal life. You need to seriously consider the truth here.

Same chapter, same immediate context.

 

[heartwashed]

My eyes were opened right after I repented and believed the gospel on October 11 1998. My assurance of salvation rests exclusively in Christ. (1 John 5:11-13) Praise God!

I received the gift of tongues in 1986...I don't remember what month it was. Then, I received a baptism of love in December of 1989. I was also baptized in Jesus' Name at a later time and have never doubted my salvation since.

 

[mailmandan]

The Holy Ghost comes to dwell IN a person. (Acts 2:4, 33) Whereas those obedient to the command to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus are baptized into His death. (Rom. 6:3-6) The experiences are separate from one another and address different aspects of man's makeup.

Waster baptism is merely the picture. Spirit baptism is the reality.

Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament. See Romans 6:3-5
Romans 6 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

"And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, (Rom. 6:3) AND he in him. (Acts 2:4) And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us." 1 John 3:24

Descriptive of those who dwelleth in Him. They "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments.

"...ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, (Water baptism; Acts 2:38, Rom. 6:3) AND by the Spirit of our God. (Acts 2:4, 38; Rom. 8:9) (1 Cor. 6:11)

Water baptism is merely the picture of this washing with water by the word. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26)

God's grace is seen in His willingness to set in place a plan of salvation that man did nothing to deserve:

By grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Not faith and water baptism. We are justified by faith. (Romans 5:1) Not faith and water baptism. We have access by faith into grace. (Romans 5:2) Not faith and water baptism.

"But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, AND renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Titus 3:4-5

The washing of regeneration is not accomplished by water baptism. The word "washing" in the Strong's Greek Concordance with Vine's Number 3067 - (Loutron) "a bath, a laver" is used *metaphorically of the Word of God, as the instrument of spiritual cleansing,* (Ephesians 5:26; and Titus 3:5), of the "washing of regeneration." Washing refers to spiritual washing or purification of the soul, accomplished by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation. Once again, water baptism is merely the picture of the reality.

 

[mailmandan]

Same chapter, same immediate context.

Out of context with Jesus' coversation with Nicodemus, but not out of context with John 3:14-18. Period.

 

[mailmandan]

The word of truth, the gospel of salvation, referenced in the Ephesians scripture below, is in fact what Peter initially presented on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:2-42) And, Paul revealed to the Ephesian disciples in Acts 19:1-7. It is trust in Jesus that prompts individual's to believe and obey the God given commands. All are essential to the NT rebirth.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

More eisegesis. Romans 1:16 simply says BELIEVES. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 simply says BELIEVE. Ephesians 1:13 simply says BELIEVED. You keep adding the work of water baptism to BELIEVES.. We need to be very careful that we truly believe the gospel. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

 

[Niki7]

I told you that I teach what I teach only on the internet. I don't subvert what Calvary Chapel teaches...while I hope that those who are saved by my teaching will provoke them to jealousy in order that they also might be saved.

You absolutely subvert what they teach as follows

What I just said, is actually taught by Chuck Smith and the entire Calvary Chapel movement.

That has been proven to be an untrue statement from you. I posted what they teach and it is not what you teach. We all can read here or we would not be on here and we all can see that you fudge what you say and twist what others say at times and simply ignore any and all posts that define your heretical errors. You either accept the gospel as it is presented or you do not. You, do not.

Actually, Calvary Chapel does not use any name when baptizing.

I received Acts 2:38 salvation in a Oneness church. I just didn't continue to attend there.

The truth is just not in you dude. From Calvary Chapel:

We believe in the believer's baptism by full immersion in water. We baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, by the authority or name of Jesus. (Matt 28:19) We believe that when someone is saved they are then commanded to be baptized as is recorded in the book of Acts. source All Calvary Chapels baptize that way. I have seen it myself

 

[heartwashed]

I already explained to you that John 3:16 is not iffy salvation. The word "should" subjunctive mood expresses a possibility or a consequence which results if a condition is met. In the case of John 3:16 the condition is “whoever believes in Him.” When that condition is met, two things happen. The person shall not perish, but receive eternal life and half or more of the English translations of John 3:16 do not use the word should. The NASB and NIV read, “whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” The NET Bible, LEB, and HCSB have the same translation except they use "will" instead of shall (will not perish). In John 3:18, even in the KJV, we read - He that believeth on him is not condemned.. Hmm.. so why doesn't it read, "should not be condemned?" So much for your iffy salvation.

Saving belief in Christ continues (in the present tense) and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away, as we see in the 2nd type of soil in the parable of the sower. Unlike saving belief, temporary, shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? It doesn't. Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they are not saved.

Now even though this shallow ground hearer in Luke 8:13 is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually "saved"? I will explain the reasons.

First, his heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer in the 4th soil, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.

John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some level) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus which "falls short of firmly rooted and established belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not truly "believe unto salvation" and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.

IN CONTRAST TO - Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. So the rocky soil represents a person not properly prepared in heart and the seed planted ends up with a lack of "root" (lack of being firmly planted, or established) and good soil represents a person properly prepared in heart who having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keeps it and bears fruit with patience.

in the parable of the sower, the 2nd and third types of ground are living plants and also have faith in Jesus Christ unto being forgiven of their sins. For, as Magenta had quoted over and over,

Act 10:43, To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

So, the one who "believes and then falls away" (Luke 8:13) falls under this category of those who have received remission (forgiveness). However, because they fall away, they do not keep that forgiveness for ever. This is also the category of those who merely believe but are never baptized...they "should" not perish...whereas those who believe and are baptized "shall" be saved. It is wrong to defer to another translation because you prefer it over and above the kjv...you are doing what was prophesied in 2 Timothy 4:3.

As for John 1:18. He that believeth on him "is not condemned" for the present moment. But if he falls away, he will lose the forgiveness that he had because of believing (Luke 8:13).

You seem to be advocating the idea that someone can believe and not have remission (forgiveness) of sins. That would contradict Magenta's contention of Acts 10:43...and would indicate that not everyone who believes has forgiveness of sins. If that is the case, then salvation is also "iffy" with mere belief.

However, I think that the proper exegesis would tell us that Acts 10:43 is speaking of all believers; but that some "believe and then fall away" (Luke 8:13) and for them, salvation is also "iffy" while they have mere faith because as long as they have not been baptized, there is the danger of falling away.

But even if, as you say, there is a mental assent that does not bring salvation, that can be defined as belief (as in Luke 8:13), it would be true that not everyone who believes necessarily has salvation. In that case, Acts 10:43 cannot be taken as an absolute promise; and not everyone who believes is necessarily saved / forgiven. And therefore, belief alone would not be any kind of guarantee of salvation. Thus "iffy".

 

[heartwashed]

*NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

It does when you use the biblical hermeneutic of 1 Corinthians 2:13, and compare Acts 2:39 to Romans 8:30.

 

[heartwashed]

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses, yet He does not mention it. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Now what was the one requirement that Jesus mentions nine different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *

The doctrine of baptisms cannot be mentioned in every verse, it would convolute the scriptures. God expects you to understand the scriptures on faith in conjunction with the scriptures that speak of baptism.

"faith" is in "the operation of God" (Colossians 2:12) -- baptism (see Ezekiel 36:25-27).

 

[heartwashed]

and YOUR WRONG.

Your just as wrong as the jew demanding people be circumcized if they wanted to be saved..

I don't think that I am wrong here. Luke 7:29-30 tells me that those who have not been baptized will reject the counsel of God; and those who have been will receive it.

Thus, you reject the counsel of God because you have not been baptized, specifically, with baptism in Jesus' Name for the remission of sins.

Have you?

The Bible preaches condemnation for the one who is circumcised and is attempting to be justified by the law (Galatians 5:1-4).

But it preaches salvation to the one who is baptized in Jesus' Name and is seeking to be justified by faith in Christ (Acts 2:38-39).

So, they are not the same.

 

[heartwashed]

Not sure he ever will

Happy to be saved in Acts 2:38 salvation. Don't think that I have any reason to change.