water baptism in Jesus' Name.

[Everlasting-Grace]

You just don't get it.

Not sure he ever will

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

"Baptized into Christ" does not mean water baptized into the body of Christ, as water salvationists teach. That is only accomplished through Spirit baptism. (1 Corinthians 12:13) Now in what "sense" would a believer be "water baptized into Christ?" In the same "sense" that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses.." (1 Corinthians 10:2) The Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses and there is little dispute that being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses as their leader. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people. Water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior, so it would only be in that sense.

if the interpretors translated the greek word baptizo instead of transliterate it. we would not be having this discussion.

The literal translation should be we were placed into Christ..

instead they used a word not even native in the english language because of their confusion, and hence caused the confusion of many people.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The day of judgment will bear out which one of us is right.

Thing is, if you are right, I have not taught anything that will keep anyone from salvation.

But if I am right, you have.

If your wrong, your leading people to hell

since we believe one should be baptized.. if we are wrong.. we are still saved, because we did still get baptized.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes, if it is in the same chapter, it is in the immediate context.

wrong,

this showes your lack of knowledge of the word.. The origional bible was nto written in chapter/verse form..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I guess you're thinking that the holy scriptures devaluate the blood of Jesus. How sad how terribly sad.

No,

You and people like you do..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So, you appear to be attempting to say that baptism in water condemns rather than saves you...

I will only say that such is an ultimate heresy.

No

Baptism in water for salvation shows your faith is in your physical act. and not in christ

thats what condemns you. because you are still in unbelief, hence still condemned.

 

[mailmandan]

The Gentiles received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and then they were baptized in water. It was not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit
Please read the context clear into Acts 11. After Cornelius, no one was baptized in the Holy Spirit.

God bless you,
Wayne

That is false. In Acts 10:45-46 we read that the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. They clearly received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and only those who receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can receive a spiritual gift, which is ONLY for the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12) and in this case it was the spiritual gift of tongues.

In Acts 11:17, we read - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?”

In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we read - For by one Spirit we were ALL baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You are advocating the idea that we cannot understand the Bible unless we know what the words meant 400 yrs ago.

For the most part, what they meant 400 yrs ago is what they mean today.

Therefore we can understand the Bible simply by reading it and taking it at face value.

not true

the words verily verily.. what do they means?

the word tongues.. 400 years ago, it just meant languages, today people see it and insert some jobberish language that is nto even a language

baptism. was not even a native english word.. so in order to see what it really means. we have to go and find the defenition of the word it was transliterated from (baptizo)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

God's promises are not "iffy" despite the fact you repeatedly say so. Shame on you for even suggesting it.

he can't get out of his own way..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Someone can "believe for a while" in His righteous shed blood "and then fall away" (Luke 8:13).

The only guarantee of not falling away is in Mark 16:16, and/or Romans 10:13, if you call on the name of the true Lord (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) Jesus Christ.

those people did not have faith.. that's why they fell away.

1 John makes this clear.. they were of us, but they were really nbot of us, for if they were of us they would not have left (fallen away)

for one who says we need to use the whole councel of God. you failed in this part.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

1 + 2 are a formula for absolute assurance of salvation.

1 alone is a formula for a salvation that can be lost.

3 is a formula for damnation and usually involves #4. and is not baptized.

Because if you don't believe you are probably not going to be baptized...so baptism doesn't even need to be mentioned in the latter part...it is a given that if you don't believe, you won't be baptized.

Where are the "if's" in this equation?

salvation can not be lost.

God did not give us conditional life. he gave us eternal life.. that is what our hope is based on. and God can not lie

a hope based on a physical tradition is not any hope at all..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I go by the Bible that I hold in my hand...a Protestant kjv.

I believe that the Bible is 66 books that correspond to the 66 chapters of Isaiah.

They are even grouped the same way. The first 39 chapters of Isaiah are law and the last 27 chapters are grace.

your KJV is flawed. its a translated. it is not inspired by God.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You don't communicate in writing "too good".



It is relevant to the idea that Mark 16:16 is not scripture to all readers of scripture.

go drink poison and allow a snake to bite you and see if you do not die.

In fact. look at all the believers who died of these very thing in the last 2000 years. and then tell me if the end of mark 16 can be verified.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

My eyes were opened right after I repented and believed the gospel on October 11 1998. My assurance of salvation rests exclusively in Christ. (1 John 5:11-13) Praise God!

amen,

rests in God..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I already explained to you that John 3:16 is not iffy salvation. The word "should" subjunctive mood expresses a possibility or a consequence which results if a condition is met. In the case of John 3:16 the condition is “whoever believes in Him.” When that condition is met, two things happen. The person shall not perish, but receive eternal life and half or more of the English translations of John 3:16 do not use the word should. The NASB and NIV read, “whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” The NET Bible, LEB, and HCSB have the same translation except they use "will" instead of shall (will not perish). In John 3:18, even in the KJV, we read - He that believeth on him is not condemned.. Hmm.. so why doesn't it read, "should not be condemned?" So much for your iffy salvation.

Saving belief in Christ continues (in the present tense) and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away, as we see in the 2nd type of soil in the parable of the sower. Unlike saving belief, temporary, shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? It doesn't. Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they are not saved.

Now even though this shallow ground hearer in Luke 8:13 is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually "saved"? I will explain the reasons.

First, his heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer in the 4th soil, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.

John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some level) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus which "falls short of firmly rooted and established belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not truly "believe unto salvation" and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.

IN CONTRAST TO - Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. So the rocky soil represents a person not properly prepared in heart and the seed planted ends up with a lack of "root" (lack of being firmly planted, or established) and good soil represents a person properly prepared in heart who having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keeps it and bears fruit with patience.

he wont look at the greek.. He would see it is aorist tense in John 3..

 

[Ted01]

You should put your trust in the more absolute promises of scripture; rather than in the promises that are "iffy".

If your God is "iffy" and you can't trust him... try coming to Jesus because He can be trusted!

Jer. 17:7
Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord,
whose trust is the Lord.

 

[Magenta]

Why don't you read my thread, "Sermons on the law"...you may find your answer.

I have read enough of that thread to know you do not mention baptism there because it would too obviously be an
addition to the requirement for salvation aside from grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ.

I have even pointed that out to you in that thread. The thread where you go on and on about how wrong it would
be to add anything to salvation aside from the requirement of faith by grace in the shed righteous blood of Christ.

 

[Wansvic]

...
So why did Peter include baptism in Acts 2:38? It was probably in anticipation of all the false teachings which would come later. What he was doing there is simply showing the very close connection between salvation and baptism. just as Christ did in Mark 16:16. So once again it is our solemn duty to examine all the Scriptures, and then show what is the true Gospel.

Peter included baptism because having one's sin remitted is essential to salvation. Jesus told Peter he would give him the "keys" to the kingdom. (Matt. 16:19) Peter faithfully presented the "keys" to all groups of humanity. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:43-48) The keys include water and Spirit; they parallel Jesus statement in John 3:3-5.

 

[Wansvic]

Interesting Noah did not 'get wet' so to speak those in the water died.

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized INTO Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
...IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,...(Rom 6:3, 5-6)


Notice the above statement says that the body of sin is destroyed when baptized INTO Jesus Christ. That is why it is essential to be baptized in the name of Jesus, and not the titles Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Why? Because Jesus is the one who was crucified. Paul pointed out this truth as noted below:


"Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Cor 1:13

 

[Wansvic]

Exactly. The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.

11:7 - By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Noah and his family were saved by the ark “through (via) water.” Water was not the means of their salvation, but the ark.

Rebirth of necessity requires the old man to die, and come forth ONCE AGAIN from waters of the "womb." According to scripture man is without excuse because Spiritual concepts can be understood by God's natural designs.

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" (Rom 1:20)