water baptism in Jesus' Name.

[Beckie]

Clearly written passages:

Eze 36:25, Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27, And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Mar 1:4, John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luk 7:29, And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
Luk 7:30, But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Act 2:37, Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38, Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39, For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Rom 6:3, Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4, Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Gal 3:27, For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Col 2:11, In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12, Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13, And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

1Pe 3:20, Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21, The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Since baptism saves, it is not a work; while it is most certainly "righteousness"

Anything to devalue the shed Blood of Jesus over and over . How sad how terribly sad.

 

[Wansvic]

The Greek word “antitupon,” as used in I Peter 3: 21, is “an adjective, used as a noun,” and denotes, in the NT, “a corresponding type,” being “said of baptism.” “The circumstances of the flood, the ark and its occupants, formed a type, and baptism forms “a corresponding type,” each setting forth the spiritual realities of the death, burial, and resurrection of believers in their identification with Christ.

It 's not a case of type and antitype, but of two types, that in Genesis, the type, and baptism, the corresponding type.” Noah was saved by the ark “through (via) water.” Water was not the means of their salvation, but the ark. The ark is what both delivered and preserved them, the two aspects of “salvation.” Their “salvation” was typical of the salvation promised to the Christian. It pictured it. So also does Christian baptism picture the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

By saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience -through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony itself.

Your understanding is not accurate.
Foreshadows/types do not point to foreshadows/types. Types are a shadow of the real thing. (antitype)
The flood was the foreshadow. Baptism is the real thing.

 

[mailmandan]

John 3:16...those who believe "should not perish"...iffy.

Mark 16:16...those who believe and are baptized "shall be saved"...a more absolute promise

So you interpret John 3:16 (KJV) to mean that those who believe should not perish, but still might perish? The Roman Catholic Bible (NAB) reads - ..might not perish but might have eternal life. Two mights? Now that sounds iffy. That's no surprise since Roman Catholicism teaches salvation by works.

If John 3:16 meant those who truly believe in Him merely "might not perish and merely might have eternal life," then that would contradict John 3:18 which clearly reads "is not condemned" and NOT "might not be condemned." Now "should" subjunctive mood expresses a possibility or a consequence which results if a condition is met. In the case of John 3:16 the condition is “whoever believes in Him.” When that condition is met, two things happen. The person shall not perish, but receive eternal life.

Actually, half or more of the English translations of John 3:16 do not use the word should, and maybe because the translators felt that might confuse people. The NASB and NIV read, “whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” The NET Bible, LEB, and HCSB have the same translation except they use "will" instead of shall (will not perish).

 

[Beckie]

So Blood was sprinkled also ....Exo_24:6 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
Exo_24:8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.
Lev_6:27 Whatsoever shall touch the flesh thereof shall be holy: and when there is sprinkled of the blood thereof upon any garment, thou shalt wash that whereon it was sprinkled in the holy place.
Lev_8:19 And he killed it; and Moses sprinkled the blood upon the altar round about.
Lev_8:24 And he brought Aaron's sons, and Moses put of the blood upon the tip of their right ear, and upon the thumbs of their right hands, and upon the great toes of their right feet: and Moses sprinkled the blood upon the altar round about.
Lev_8:30 And Moses took of the anointing oil, and of the blood which was upon the altar, and sprinkled it upon Aaron, and upon his garments, and upon his sons, and upon his sons' garments with him; and sanctified Aaron, and his garments, and his sons, and his sons' garments with him.
Lev_9:12 And he slew the burnt offering; and Aaron's sons presented unto him the blood, which he sprinkled round about upon the altar.
Lev_9:18 He slew also the bullock and the ram for a sacrifice of peace offerings, which was for the people: and Aaron's sons presented unto him the blood, which he sprinkled upon the altar round about,
2Ki_16:13 And he burnt his burnt offering and his meat offering, and poured his drink offering, and sprinkled the blood of his peace offerings, upon the altar.
2Ch_29:22 So they killed the bullocks, and the priests received the blood, and sprinkled it on the altar: likewise, when they had killed the rams, they sprinkled the blood upon the altar: they killed also the lambs, and they sprinkled the blood upon the altar.
2Ch_30:16 And they stood in their place after their manner, according to the law of Moses the man of God: the priests sprinkled the blood, which they received of the hand of the Levites.
2Ch_35:11 And they killed the passover, and the priests sprinkled the blood from their hands, and the Levites flayed them.
Isa_63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
Heb_9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb_9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

 

[Beckie]

Your understanding is not accurate.
Foreshadows/types do not point to foreshadows/types. Types are a shadow of the real thing. (antitype)
The flood was the foreshadow. Baptism is the real thing.

Interesting Noah did not 'get wet' so to speak those in the water died.

 

[mailmandan]

Interesting Noah did not 'get wet' so to speak those in the water died.

Exactly. The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.

11:7 - By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Noah and his family were saved by the ark “through (via) water.” Water was not the means of their salvation, but the ark.

 

[mailmandan]

Your understanding is not accurate.
Foreshadows/types do not point to foreshadows/types. Types are a shadow of the real thing. (antitype)
The flood was the foreshadow. Baptism is the real thing.

You just don't get it.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

All scripture is inspired by God. Everything the Apostles preached was inspired by God. As one reads through the conversions in the New Testament, they were always baptized the same day that they believed. That is the pattern revealed in the book of Acts.

Thanks,
Wayne

Amen!
It was also done under the Supervision of the Holy Spirit, in Place of the already Ascended, Jesus.

 

[Wansvic]

Were they added because they repemnted and believed.. or were they added because they were baptized?

All of the above! Belief prompts action.

 

[mailmandan]

Wow.

Baptized into water

Baptized into Christ
Baptized into his death
Baptized into his body
Baptized into His burial

according to you these all mean baptized in water
sorry my friend, Your in error

"Baptized into Christ" does not mean water baptized into the body of Christ, as water salvationists teach. That is only accomplished through Spirit baptism. (1 Corinthians 12:13) Now in what "sense" would a believer be "water baptized into Christ?" In the same "sense" that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses.." (1 Corinthians 10:2) The Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses and there is little dispute that being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses as their leader. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people. Water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior, so it would only be in that sense.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I think I believe I know where the Apostles, would have SEEN Jesus Baptize in His Own Name, for the Disciples, to use the same Formula in the Book of Acts 2:38.

John 3:
22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he remained there with them and was baptizing.

Jesus, the WORD, made flesh, probably Baptized under His Own Authority!

He healed in His Name and said Your Sins are Forgiven. He definitely Baptized under His Own Authority!

Most likely why Disciples did it as well.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

God just showed that ^ to me!

 

[mailmandan]

Dear Mailman,

Thank you very much for taking the time that you did to respond to my message. I would like to comment on the following which I copied and pasted here.

Acts 2:36-41 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ--this Jesus whom you crucified." 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, (at this point they believed) and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"

Their "belief" at this point was "mental assent" that Jesus was the Messiah and they were guilty of crucifying Him. That is not saving belief yet. Nothing is mentioned here about them trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ for salvation, which explains why they still needed to repent and believe the gospel in that order.

First of all, concerning the word "belief". When the King James Bible was being translated into English, they had a problem of translating the Greek word "pistis". Faith has no verb and so another English word was used for the verb (believe) and at times, unbelief (which is the noun for the verb believe) was used instead of "faith".

Secondly, I find no place in the New Testament where the word belief is defined as just "mental assent".

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. There is a difference between mere "mental assent" belief (as the demons have) and saving belief in Christ, which the demons do not have. Same Greek word for believe (pisteuo) in James 2:19 and Acts 16:31.

Mailman, would you read through the following concerning hope, faith and works. I would like to hear what you think of this.

HOPE, FAITH, WORKS

What is Hope? We get hope when we receive knowledge and we trust that this knowledge is true. The knowledge we gained can be true or false, but nevertheless, people do trust in the knowledge (true or false) and thus have hope. So hope is trusting in the knowledge you have come to know.

How is Faith like hope and how is faith different that hope? Like hope, faith has trust in the knowledge that we have received whether that knowledge is true or false. Faith is different than hope.

Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith in Christ, then we have this hope. Faith is the substance of things HOPED for..(Hebrews 11:1). So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the HOPE of eternal life. (Titus 3:7)

This is described in James 2:14-16, there are three levels of faith:

1. A dead faith - It has no works.

James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

2. A unperfected faith - It will obey God when God so commands us to do so The example given is Abraham in Genesis 15 and Abramam's faith was reckoned unto Abraham as righteousness. God knew that Abraham would obey Him.

Genesis 15:4-6 Then behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This man will not be your heir; but one who will come forth from your own body, he shall be your heir." 5 And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." 6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

3. A perfected faith - It is a faith that has trusted in God and obeys God like Abraham obeyed God and went to sacrifice Isaac when God commanded him to do James 2:

James 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

In James 2:14 we read of one who says/claims he has faith, but he has no works to evidence his claim. That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

CONTINUED...

 

[mailmandan]

Also, faith CAN be seen,

and hope CANNOT be seen.

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Matthew_9:2

And they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven." Mark 2:5 And Jesus seeing their faith *said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."

Jesus knew they had faith by their actions and He also knew their hearts.

This also brings us to the fact that there are two different types of works:

Works of faith - 1Thessalonians 1:3 constantly bearing in mind your work of faith and labor of LOVE and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father,

2Thessalonians 1:11 To this end also we pray for you always, that our God will count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire for goodness and the work of faith with power,

An example of how our faith in God works is found in Colossians 2:12:

Colossians 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

This is the same argument that I hear from Roman Catholics and other works-salvationists. Saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. In 1 Thessalonians 1:3, notice the words "work of" faith, "labor of" love and "patience of" hope in 1 Thessalonians 1:3. These are the practical outworking of the Thessalonians' conversion.

The "work" the Thessalonians do is a result or consequence of their faith. So too their "labor" flows from love and their "endurance" comes from hope. Work "of" faith does not mean that faith in essence is the work accomplished or that they were saved based on those works accomplished. Their work is a result or consequence "of" their faith. The work done is "of" faith or done "out of" faith. Faith was already established at conversion and then the work followed as a result or consequence "of" their faith.

Some people try to turn work "of" faith into this work "is" faith. There is a distinction between faith “and” works that “follow” as a result of faith. We are not saved by faith and works. We are saved through faith, not works.

Also, in the conversions in the Book of Acts, faith is NEVER in the Active Voice (something you do). We do not baptize ourselves. Someone else always baptizes us. They are doing the work.

Yet by submitting to receiving water baptism, we have still accomplished a good work.

Thank you for listening.

One more thing concerning Acts 2:38. Mailman, if you look at a Greek sentence, the words that modiefy a noun, the verbs, are rearranged so that when we read it in English, it is easier for us to understand. So, Mailman, if what you say concerning Acts 2:38 is true, would you rearrange the words so that it would say what you believe it to say. If what you say is true, how come in all the translations that I have ever seen, the translators have arranged it so that as we read it, we see that when we are baptized, we receive the forgiveness of our sins and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

God bless you, Mailman!

Wayne

After properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine, baptism done "in order to obtain" the remission of sins does not harmonize with Acts 10:43-47 or with salvation through faith, not works in general.

Thank you for your kind response and may God bless you!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

It is questionable whether or not the end portions of Mark and Matthew were actually corrupted. However, prior to His ascension, Jesus prophesied that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name in all nations BEGINNING in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47) The NT message initially presented in Jerusalem at Pentecost included the need for repentance, and modified water baptism to include the use of Jesus' name. If that is not convincing, note Luke's comment concerning Jesus giving the apostles commands via the Holy Ghost after His ascension.

Acts 1:1-3I
The former treatise (Book of Luke) have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he (Jesus) through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:"

Personally, I find it inconceivable that the apostles would institute water baptism in the name of Jesus, or any command of their own volition.

I think I believe I know where the Apostles, would have SEEN Jesus Baptize in His Own Name, for the Disciples, to use the same Formula in the Book of Acts 2:38.

John 3:
22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he remained there with them and ""was baptizing.""

WHOAHHHHHHH!

Jesus, was discovered Baptizing People in the New Testament?

Jesus, the WORD, made flesh, God, would have most definitely Baptized under His Own Authority on EARTH!

He healed in His Name, and said Your Sins are Forgiven, Instructed we cannot get to the Father unless we Go, Through Him. He definitely Baptized under His Own Authority!

Most likely why Disciples did it as well.

I am truly convinced in my spirit this is what happened.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

We know now, because of John 3:22, that the Disciples, WERE in FACT doing EXACTLY what they SAW Jesus do, including, the Water Baptism Formula.

 

[heartwashed]

I'm sorry that you just don't get it. Your indoctrination seems to run deep. No argument "except your own" will be adequate enough for you.

The day of judgment will bear out which one of us is right.

Thing is, if you are right, I have not taught anything that will keep anyone from salvation.

But if I am right, you have.

 

[heartwashed]

Same chapter does not automatically make it in the same context. Again, Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus is over with and He has moved on. John 3:22 - After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing. Next..

Yes, if it is in the same chapter, it is in the immediate context.

 

[heartwashed]

Only the Lord can open your eyes to the truth.

I would say the same for you.

 

[heartwashed]

Paul also told us that Christ sent him out to preach the Gospel, NOT to baptize. Had water baptism been critical for salvation, he could never have made that statement.

What still hasn't been answered is Acts 2:39 as it relates to Romans 8:30.

And I have addressed Romans 1:17 by showing that many were baptized in Corinth under Paul's ministry (Acts 18:8); while Paul says about the fact that he was sent not to baptize, that he only baptized Crispus, and Gaius, and the household of Stephanas.

So, the conclusion is that Paul had his disciples do the baptizing for him; as Jesus also did in John 4:1-2.

I can make the statement that I am not sent to baptize but to preach the gospel; even though I believe that water baptism is critical to salvation. I cannot easily baptize people over the internet, but I believe in the tenets of the gospel that are in regards to baptism.