water baptism in Jesus' Name.

[Cameron143]

Being baptized in Jesus' name is to identify with Jesus in His death, burial, and resurrection. In baptism we effectively "take up our cross and follow Him". We are buried with Him in baptism and when we come out of the water, we are risen with Him to walk in newness of life (Colossians 2:12, Romans 6:4). This is a heart change and it = salvation.

Our trust is 100% in what Jesus did for us on the Cross; and the fact that we are one with Him in His crucifixion, burial, and resurrection.

If we don't become one with Him, we aren't saved.

You can believe He was crucified for you all you want...

If you are in Christ, then you have been crucified with Him (Galatians 5:24).

The very fact that we weren't actually crucified with Christ literally should show you that your last statement isn't literal. The same is true of baptism. We aren't literally buried with Him. It's symbolic of a spiritual reality.

 

[mailmandan]

Nope. Read the verses again.

Taking the scriptures at face value is eisegesis and flawed hermeneutics?

I've read those verses numerous times. Prior to my conversion, I was raised in the Roman Catholic church, so I'm no stranger to the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration. None of your arguments are anything new or enlightening.

 

[mailmandan]

The very fact that we weren't actually crucified with Christ literally should show you that your last statement isn't literal. The same is true of baptism. We aren't literally buried with Him. It's symbolic of a spiritual reality.

Amen! As Greek scholar AT Robertson said - a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality.

 

[mailmandan]

I encourage the reader to be a Berean (Acts 17:10-11) and to read the verses for themselves instead of taking @mailmandan 's word for it.

You are not fooling me or any of my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat. A good Berean properly harmonizes scripture with scripture before reaching their conclusion on doctrine.

 

[heartwashed]

Water baptism is a "work of righteousness." (Matthew 3:13-15; Titus 3:5)

In regards to Romans 6:3-4, as Greek scholar AT Robertson explains - Baptism is the public proclamation of one's inward spiritual relation to Christ attained before the baptism. See on "Galatians 3:27" where it is like putting on an outward garment or uniform. Into his death (ei ton qanaton autou). So here "unto his death," "in relation to his death," which relation Paul proceeds to explain by the symbolism of the ordinance. The picture in baptism points two ways, backwards to Christ's death and burial and to our death to sin, forward to Christ's resurrection from the dead and to our new life pledged by the coming out of the watery grave to walk on the other side of the baptismal grave. There is the further picture of our own resurrection from the grave. It is a tragedy that Paul's majestic picture here has been so blurred by controversy that some refuse to see it. It should be said also that a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality.

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/rwp/romans-6.html

Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that faith, not baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16, 3:22-30; 4:4-6, 13; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures. Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification." (Romans 4:24,25)

Since believers receive the benefits of Christ’s death and resurrection (justification), and that through faith, believers must be spiritually united to Him (delivered and raised up with Him). If baptism is taken as the instrumental cause, then Paul contradicts what he had established before, namely that justification is by faith, not baptism. *Hermeneutics. Paul clearly teaches that what is signified in baptism (buried and raised with Christ) actually occurs "through faith." Christians are "buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead" (Colossians 2:12). Justification on account of union in Christ's death, burial and resurrection is brought about "through faith" - and is properly symbolized by dipping the new believer in and out of the water.

In regards to Ezekiel 36:26, Christian baptism is not done by sprinkling, but immersion. Try again. You would walk around mountains of grace in order to find water.

While water baptism in Jesus' Name is indeed righteousness, it simply is not a work.

Because salvation (remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost) can be obtained by submitting to the ordinance; and we know from scripture that salvation is "not of works, lest anyone should boast." (Ephesians 2:9).

Faith is certainly involved in Acts 2:38 salvation (see Colossians 2:12).

Taking all of scripture in all of its context, I conclude that we are risen with Christ "through the faith of the operation of God" and that therefore the promise of Acts 2:38-39 is obtained by faith in the promise; through fulfilling the condition of the promise.

Hermeneutics is a great swelling word, btw.

We really need to get away from using words like it.

btw, if sprinkling has the power to save a person, putting within them a new spirit and a new heart, how much more immersion?

 

[heartwashed]

You are not fooling me or any of my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat. A good Berean properly harmonizes scripture with scripture before reaching their conclusion on doctrine.

What a good Berean does not do is that he does not pit scripture against scripture. The scripture never contradicts itself; and every verse can be taken at face value and stands on its own as a bastion of spiritual truth.

 

[heartwashed]

The very fact that we weren't actually crucified with Christ literally should show you that your last statement isn't literal. The same is true of baptism. We aren't literally buried with Him. It's symbolic of a spiritual reality.

Yes, we are symbolically buried with him in the water.

And it is the antitype (symbol) that doth also now save us.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

I think its act of belief that saves...conversion of heart, not some act....thats a symbol to others you joined. Christ didnt need to be baptized he did it to show others. for example.

Jesus' BAPTISM was a baptism of REPENTANCE. Not of SIN (since he had none), but of his lifestyle up to that point. "Repentance" means nothing beyond a "Change of direction". Jesus repented of being Head of Mary's household, as the eldest SON in the absence of Joseph, and immediately entered his teaching ministry.

 

[heartwashed]

I've read those verses numerous times. Prior to my conversion, I was raised in the Roman Catholic church, so I'm no stranger to the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration. None of your arguments are anything new or enlightening.

Apparently you have become calloused to the plain meaning of what these verses say. Again, I encourage the reader to be a Berean and to actually read the verses (1 Peter 3:20-21, Ezekiel 36:25-27, Acts 2:38-39, Romans 6:1-4) I'll add one more: Mark 1:4.

 

[mailmandan]

You haven't shown any scripture that declares that baptism is a work; while I have shown logically that it is not a work, even from holy scripture.

You have shown me no such logical thing and baptism is a work. By Jesus getting water baptized He was fulfilling all righteousness, so baptism is clearly a work of righteousness. Now see Titus 3:5.

 

[heartwashed]

You have shown me no such logical thing and baptism is a work. By Jesus getting water baptized He was fulfilling all righteousness, so baptism is clearly a work of righteousness. Now see Titus 3:5.

Your argument is that baptism is a work and therefore does not save.

My argument is that baptism in Jesus' Name does save and therefore it is not a work.

Have you taken your scissors and cut Acts 2:38-39 out of your Bible yet?

Because that passage clearly teaches that baptism saves.

You really should do to your Bible physically what you have done to it in your heart.

Just remember what it says in Revelation 22:18-19.
'

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, we are symbolically buried with him in the water.

And it is the antitype (symbol) that doth also now save us.

The antitype doesn't do anything but point to the reality.

 

[heartwashed]

You have shown me no such logical thing and baptism is a work. By Jesus getting water baptized He was fulfilling all righteousness, so baptism is clearly a work of righteousness. Now see Titus 3:5.

While being baptized is righteousness, it clearly is not a work.

 

[heartwashed]

The antitype doesn't do anything but point to the reality.

The antitype (symbol) doth also now save us (1 Peter 3:21).

Read it and weep.

 

[mailmandan]

Apparently you have become calloused to the plain meaning of what these verses say. Again, I encourage the reader to be a Berean and to actually read the verses (1 Peter 3:20-21, Ezekiel 36:25-27, Acts 2:38-39, Romans 6:1-4) I'll add one more: Mark 1:4.

Verses like John 3:15,16 18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 15:1-4; Galations 3:26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3;15; 1 John 5:13 etc..) are plain to me and do not harmonize with your biased interpretation of your pet verses.

 

[mailmandan]

While being baptized is righteousness, it clearly is not a work.

Flawed logic.

 

[Cameron143]

The antitype (symbol) doth also now save us (1 Peter 3:21).

Read it and weep.

Read the whole passage. It is the resurrection that saves us.
Antitypes or shadows only depict the reality. They aren't the reality. We may as Christians walk through the valley of the shadow of death. But we don't walk through the literal valley of death. The reason being is that we have passed from death to life. In like manner, baptism depicts our death with Christ, but it is His actual death and resurrection that saves us.

 

[WayneKCobb]

Did you believe that Jesus was God, when you first was Saved, before you got Water Baptized?
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved


Nowhere, is Water Baptism listed.

Hi MailmanDan,

I was wondering if you could answer this question. Acts 2:21 says, 'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.' Because this does not mention believing, does it mean that I could go down to the local bar and pay someone who does not believe in God, to say, "Jesus save me". According this verse he would be saved. MailmanDan, what do you say?

Thank you,
Wayne

 

[heartwashed]

Flawed logic.

Show your work.

 

[heartwashed]

Verses like John 3:15,16 18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 15:1-4; Galations 3:26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3;15; 1 John 5:13 etc..) are plain to me and do not harmonize with your biased interpretation of your pet verses.

How do you deal with Acts 2:39 as it relates to Romans 8:30?

This question has not been answered by any of you in 338 posts!