The Trinity...my take.

[The_Watchers_2017]

@CS1 asked heartwashed the same question five times and he consistently sidestepped the question with a red x. That’s proof positive heartwash knows he’s spouting heresy. No wonder he cries cyberspace martyrdom.

I am merely assuming here, like you and others here are about his presentation and meaning.
But, for me, I have actually moved to an area that forced me to understand this New Sect of Calvary Chapel Movement. Been in God and around God my entire life and never heard of this Group. But from Texas to Cali to Mexico and Canada, this Movement has been well known to the Western USA for past 50 years. Mega Churches and many many small ones. No different than anything else. Same ole Same ole. They really believe the Bible. In fact, they begin first day of a Brand New Church with Genesis 1:1 and go Verse by verse, Chapter by Chapter, Book by Book, until they finish the Bible.
And then, they go back to Genesis 1:1 and do it again. A typical Church Member could hear and read the Bible in the Church alone, not while at home reading, this is only inside church, at least 10 complete times in a lifetime. They know the Bible!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Same essence is essential otherwise we have polytheism.

Amen!

 

[HeIsHere]

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of [1] the Father, and of [2] the Son, and of [3] the Holy Ghost (Mt 28:19 KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, [1] the Father, [2] the Word, and [3] the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

There is good evidence this was added in during the fourth century.

 

[HeIsHere]

Amen!

People just do not do the research, there were many forces at play during those first centuries of Christianity.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I am merely assuming here, like you and others here are about his presentation and meaning.
But, for me, I have actually moved to an area that forced me to understand this New Sect of Calvary Chapel Movement. Been in God and around God my entire life and never heard of this Group. But from Texas to Cali to Mexico and Canada, this Movement has been well known to the Western USA for past 50 years. Mega Churches and many many small ones. No different than anything else. Same ole Same ole. They really believe the Bible. In fact, they begin first day of a Brand New Church with Genesis 1:1 and go Verse by verse, Chapter by Chapter, Book by Book, until they finish the Bible.
And then, they go back to Genesis 1:1 and do it again. A typical Church Member could hear and read the Bible in the Church alone, not while at home reading, this is only inside church, at least 10 complete times in a lifetime. They know the Bible!

I say that ^

Because, how they do it structuredly FITS ALL Creeds.

Let me explain.

Go to Baptist Church, you will learn ASAP Calvinism.

Go to Pentecostal, ASAP, Gifts of the Spirit.

But go to Calvary Chapel, they can believe everyone's View because they have no set Doctrine!.. It's just open Bible, it says this, OK, We going to Believe it because Bible says it.

Calvary Chapel's Doctrine is literally EVERYONE's ELSE's ""special Doctrines!""

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Calvary Chapel's Doctrine is literally EVERYONE's ELSE's ""special Doctrines!""


Let me explain:
Your View, no matter what you Believe Protestant Wise, is THEIR View even if Their View is not Your View! But, Their View is 100% Biblical!

 

[CS1]

I say that ^

Because, how they do it structuredly FITS ALL Creeds.

Let me explain.

Go to Baptist Church, you will learn ASAP Calvinism.

Go to Pentecostal, ASAP, Gifts of the Spirit.

But go to Calvary Chapel, they can believe everyone's View because they have no set Doctrine!.. It's just open Bible, it says this, OK, We going to Believe it because Bible says it.

Calvary Chapel's Doctrine is literally EVERYONE's ELSE's ""special Doctrines!""

That is not true. They have very much a set doctrines Read more about Chuck Smith, the founder of C-Chapel they have a " what we believe". on their site:

We are continuationist.
We are complementarian.
We are pre-millennial.
We are pre-tribulational.
We are evangelical.

 

[CS1]

Here is C-Chapels take on the Trinity right from their web site

"So what is God like? The Bible reveals that God is what we call triune (or trinitarian) in nature. When we say God is triune, we mean that God is three Persons in one divine being (the Trinity). These Persons within the being of God have revealed themselves in the Bible as God the Father, Jesus (God the Son), and God the Holy Spirit. Though difficult to fully understand, the concept of the Trinity is clearly depicted in the pages of the Bible. How so? Prepare for some serious mental exercise."


The Nature of God in a Nutshell
The biblical depiction of the nature of God can be summarized in 5 layers:

1. The Father is God
(John 6:27).

2. The Son is God
(John 1:1-3; Hebrews 1:7-8; Colossians 1:13-17).

3. The Spirit is God
(Genesis 1:2; Job 33:4; Psalms 104:30; Acts 5:3-4; Acts 13:1-4).

4. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are NOT each other
(Matthew 3:16-17; John 1:1-3 & 18; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14).

5. There is only one God
(Deuteronomy 6:4; Mark 12:32; Romans 3:30; 1 Corinthians 8:6).

Did you get all that? I know this is big to grasp for all of us, so let me say it all again: God exists as the three Persons of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each of those three Persons is divine. They are not three separate Gods. They are not merely one divine Person portraying Himself in three separate ways, such as a man who wears three different uniforms. The Father, Son and Spirit are literally three distinct Persons unified by one divine substance. Incredible!

Time for a Mental Meltdown
Usually, this is the point where our brains start to hurt. As we try to wrap our heads around the grandeur of God’s nature, feelings of futility and inadequacy soon follow. But don’t feel bad if that’s what you’re feeling as you read this! While we can certainly apprehend the biblical teaching regarding the triune nature of God, we cannot fully comprehend it in its fullness.

At Least Draw Me a Picture
Things get even more difficult when we try to illustrate the nature of God. The Trinity is not only difficult to understand, it is virtually impossible to illustrate. Many have used images like the Shamrock, egg, apple, and nuclear family (dad, mom, kids) to try to illustrate the Trinity.

My favorite illustration for the Trinity is probably the apple. You could say that the apple consists of three main parts: the core, the flesh and the skin. Each of those parts is not the other. The skin is not the flesh, the flesh is not the core, etc. And yet, the three distinct parts of the apple share one substance, and together are a single apple. So, there is a cute attempt at illustrating the Trinity for you. But still, as much as I like it, this analogy ultimately breaks down because God does not really consist of separate parts.

So, again, while I applaud and value illustrations like the apple as tools to help people grasp the Trinity, all illustrations fall short for different reasons. The truth is, you can’t just draw a picture of God! There is no simple way to articulate or make an analogy that fits His nature. Why? Nothing else in the universe is three-in-one in the same way that God is in His nature. Truly, God is bigger and better than our best definitions and illustrations.

FYI, this is all Doctine

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Here is C-Chapels take on the Trinity right from their web site

"So what is God like? The Bible reveals that God is what we call triune (or trinitarian) in nature. When we say God is triune, we mean that God is three Persons in one divine being (the Trinity). These Persons within the being of God have revealed themselves in the Bible as God the Father, Jesus (God the Son), and God the Holy Spirit. Though difficult to fully understand, the concept of the Trinity is clearly depicted in the pages of the Bible. How so? Prepare for some serious mental exercise."


The Nature of God in a Nutshell
The biblical depiction of the nature of God can be summarized in 5 layers:

1. The Father is God
(John 6:27).

2. The Son is God
(John 1:1-3; Hebrews 1:7-8; Colossians 1:13-17).

3. The Spirit is God
(Genesis 1:2; Job 33:4; Psalms 104:30; Acts 5:3-4; Acts 13:1-4).

4. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are NOT each other
(Matthew 3:16-17; John 1:1-3 & 18; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14).

5. There is only one God
(Deuteronomy 6:4; Mark 12:32; Romans 3:30; 1 Corinthians 8:6).

Did you get all that? I know this is big to grasp for all of us, so let me say it all again: God exists as the three Persons of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each of those three Persons is divine. They are not three separate Gods. They are not merely one divine Person portraying Himself in three separate ways, such as a man who wears three different uniforms. The Father, Son and Spirit are literally three distinct Persons unified by one divine substance. Incredible!

Time for a Mental Meltdown
Usually, this is the point where our brains start to hurt. As we try to wrap our heads around the grandeur of God’s nature, feelings of futility and inadequacy soon follow. But don’t feel bad if that’s what you’re feeling as you read this! While we can certainly apprehend the biblical teaching regarding the triune nature of God, we cannot fully comprehend it in its fullness.

At Least Draw Me a Picture
Things get even more difficult when we try to illustrate the nature of God. The Trinity is not only difficult to understand, it is virtually impossible to illustrate. Many have used images like the Shamrock, egg, apple, and nuclear family (dad, mom, kids) to try to illustrate the Trinity.

My favorite illustration for the Trinity is probably the apple. You could say that the apple consists of three main parts: the core, the flesh and the skin. Each of those parts is not the other. The skin is not the flesh, the flesh is not the core, etc. And yet, the three distinct parts of the apple share one substance, and together are a single apple. So, there is a cute attempt at illustrating the Trinity for you. But still, as much as I like it, this analogy ultimately breaks down because God does not really consist of separate parts.

So, again, while I applaud and value illustrations like the apple as tools to help people grasp the Trinity, all illustrations fall short for different reasons. The truth is, you can’t just draw a picture of God! There is no simple way to articulate or make an analogy that fits His nature. Why? Nothing else in the universe is three-in-one in the same way that God is in His nature. Truly, God is bigger and better than our best definitions and illustrations.

FYI, this is all Doctine

Yeah, it matches a little bit of Everyone.

So, now that you have a more in-depth look, what's the issue with the Op?
Does this Site back you off him?
Maybe he is newer, 5 year's Saved kind of Knowledge, and does not understand the Churches Core Beliefs specifically.

 

[evyaniy]

2 Corinthians 4

3 Even if our Good News is veiled, it is veiled in those who are dying, 4 in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the Good News of the glory of Messiah, Who is the image of YAH, should not dawn on them. 5 For we don’t proclaim ourselves, but Messiah Yeshua as Adonai, and ourselves as your servants for Yeshua’s sake, 6 seeing it is YAH Who said, “Light will shine out of darkness,” Who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of YAH in the face of Yeshua the Messiah.

 

[Nehemiah6]

There is good evidence this was added in during the fourth century.

There is NO EVIDENCE that this was added. More baloney.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Give scripture to substantiate these statements.

Really? As though you will abandon your false belief after Scripture is given? Anyhow if you cannot fathom these Scriptures then you are in very serious trouble:

And Jesus [God the Son], when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God [God the Holy Spirit] descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice [of God the Father] from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (Mt 3:16:17)

But if the Spirit [God the Holy Spirit] of him [God the Father] that raised up Jesus [God the Son] from the dead dwell in you, he [God the Father] that raised up Christ [God the Son] from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit [God the Holy Spirit] that dwelleth in you. (Rom 8:11)

 

[evyaniy]

John chapter 9 verses.

3 Yeshua answered, “This man didn’t sin, nor did his parents, but that the works of YAH might be revealed in him. 4 I must work the works of Him Who sent Me while it is day. The night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

35 Yeshua heard that they had thrown him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of YAH?”
36 He answered, “Who is He, Adonai, that I may believe in Him?”
37 Yeshua said to him, “You have both seen Him, and it is He Who speaks with you.”
38 He said, “Adonai, I believe!” and he worshiped Him.
39 Yeshua said, “I came into this world for judgment, that those who don’t see may see; and that those who see may become blind.”

 

[evyaniy]

John chapter 10 verses.

14 I am the good Shepherd. I know My own, and I’m known by My own; 15 even as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one Shepherd. 17 Therefore the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life, that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it away from Me, but I lay it down by Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. I received this commandment from My Father.”

24 The Judeans therefore came around Him and said to Him, “How long will You hold us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Yeshua answered them, “I told you, and you don’t believe. The works that I do in My Father’s Name, these testify about Me. 26 But you don’t believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I told you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father Who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are One.”

34 Yeshua answered them, “Isn’t it written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods?’* 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of YAH came (and the Scripture can’t be broken), 36 do you say of Him Whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of YAH?’ 37 If I don’t do the works of My Father, don’t believe Me. 38 But if I do them, though you don’t believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”

 

[GaryA]

I wrote a proof a God when I was 14 based on relativity...based on anthropomorphic theory of universe, that there must be creator...and what I imagined was similar to what you say. Worse Anselm, working back on properties of God in maybe 1300s worked backward to develop properties of universe.

meant anthropologic theory

The post with the correction was made one minute later than the post it was to correct.

Perhaps you do not realize that you have five minutes from the initial posting to edit a post?

You could have corrected the first post without making the second post. Just so you know...

 

[evyaniy]

John chapter 11 verses

21 Therefore Martha said to Yeshua, “Adonai, if You would have been here, my brother wouldn’t have died. 22 Even now I know that whatever You ask of YAH, YAH will give You.”
23 Yeshua said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
25 Yeshua said to her, “I am the Resurrection and the Life. He who believes in Me will still live, even if he dies. 26 Whoever lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
27 She said to him, “Yes, Adonai. I have come to believe that You are the Messiah, YAH’s Son, He Who comes into the world.”

38 Yeshua therefore, again groaning in Himself, came to the tomb. Now it was a cave, and a stone lay against it. 39 Yeshua said, “Take away the stone.”
Martha, the sister of him who was dead, said to Him, “Adonai, by this time there is a stench, for he has been dead four days.”
40 Yeshua said to her, “Didn’t I tell you that if you believed, you would see YAH’s glory?”
41 So they took away the stone from the place where the dead man was lying. Yeshua lifted up His eyes and said, “Father, I thank You that You listened to Me. 42 I know that you always listen to Me, but because of the multitude standing around I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me.” 43 When He had said this, He cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!”
44 He who was dead came out, bound hand and foot with wrappings, and his face was wrapped around with a cloth.
Yeshua said to them, “Free him, and let him go.”

 

[evyaniy]

John chapter 12 verses.

23 Yeshua answered them, “The time has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Most certainly I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains by itself alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25 He who loves his life will lose it. He who hates his life in this world will keep it to eternal life. 26 If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me. Where I am, there My servant will also be. If anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.
27 “Now My Soul is troubled. What shall I say? ‘Father, save Me from this time?’ But I came to this time for this cause. 28 Father, glorify Your Name!”
Then a voice came out of the sky, saying, “I have both glorified it and will glorify it again.”
29 Therefore the multitude who stood by and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to Him.”
30 Yeshua answered, “This voice hasn’t come for My sake, but for your sakes. 31 Now is the judgment of this world. Now the prince of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 But He said this, signifying by what kind of death He should die.

44 Yeshua cried out and said, “Whoever believes in Me, believes not in Me, but in Him Who sent Me. 45 He who sees Me sees Him Who sent Me. 46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me may not remain in the darkness. 47 If anyone listens to My sayings and doesn’t believe, I don’t judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and doesn’t receive My sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke will judge him in the last day. 49 For I spoke not from Myself, but the Father Who sent Me gave Me a commandment, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 I know that His commandment is Eternal Life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to Me, so I speak.”

 

[Blain]

I believe in predestination only as the Bible speaks of that word and teaches on the matter; and am no Calvinist.

I never said you were a calvanist and as for how you believe according to how the word us used and taught well the thing is you have to wrap all kinds of verses to show evidence of your point I only need one and it is from the mouth of Jesus himself

You asked me for scripture and that if it was presented and you are proven wrong you would accept it.

However clearly you didn't mean that if Jesus himself tells you how it is and you still keep trying to prove your doctrine as if the king of kings words are just words to you.


This is how one knows if one is after the truth or if they are just after the truth of their doctrine, you can make an entire book on all the evidence you can gather but that is another issue people their overcomplicating it the turth is not something that requires deep insight and vast cerses to wrapped together it just takes one verse of truth that is it and we are to come to him as small children are we not?

What do you think he meant by that? think about how receptive those children must have been to him how they didn't overcomplicate him

I am done with this however I have shown my stance and I am not in the buiseness of fruitless debates so with that all I ask is that you look at that verse and really meditate on it don't look at it as scripture as in written words take it as his actual voice and actual words and consider what it means to listen to the word of God not read it.

 

[HeIsHere]

There is NO EVIDENCE that this was added. More baloney.

Your detailed rebuttal, so obviously based upon countless hours of objective painstaking research is truly inspiring!

 

[evyaniy]

Nearly all of John 14 is about Father, Son and Spirit.

1 “Don’t let your heart be troubled. Believe in YAH. Believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many homes. If it weren’t so, I would have told you. I am going to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you to Myself; that where I am, you may be there also. 4 You know where I go, and you know the way.”
5 Thomas said to him, “Adonai, we don’t know where you are going. How can we know the way?”
6 Yeshua said to him, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father, except through Me. 7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also. From now on, you know Him and have seen Him.”
8 Philip said to Him, “Adonai, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.”
9 Yeshua said to him, “Have I been with you such a long time, and do you not know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. How do you say, ‘Show us the Father?’ 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from Myself; but the Father Who lives in Me does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the very works’ sake. 12 Most certainly I tell you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and he will do greater works than these, because I am going to My Father. 13 Whatever you will ask in My Name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you will ask anything in My Name, I will do it. 15 If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 I will pray to the Father, and He will give you another Counselor, that He may be with you forever: 17 the Spirit of truth, Whom the world can’t receive, for it doesn’t see Him and doesn’t know Him. You know Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans. I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world will see Me no more; but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 One who has My commandments and keeps them, that person is one who loves Me. One who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him, and will reveal Myself to him.”
22 Judah (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Adonai, what has happened that You are about to reveal Yourself to us, and not to the world?”
23 Yeshua answered him, “If a man loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who doesn’t love Me doesn’t keep My words. The word which you hear isn’t Mine, but the Father’s Who sent Me.
25 “I have said these things to you while still living with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My Name, will teach you all things, and will remind you of all that I said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you. My peace I give to you; not as the world gives, I give to you. Don’t let your heart be troubled, neither let it be fearful. 28 You heard how I told you, ‘I am going away, and I will come back to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced because I said ‘I am going to My Father;’ for the Father is greater than I. 29 Now I have told you before it happens so that when it happens, you may believe. 30 I will no more speak much with you, for the prince of the world comes, and he has nothing in Me. 31 But that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father commanded Me, even so I do. Arise, let’s go from here.