The Trinity...my take.

[evyaniy]

The idea that we need to "work" for Salvation and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is refuted by a host of Scripture that call on us to believe (too many to post):

Jn. 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Rom. 10:9 - Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Jn. 20:31 - But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Jn. 5:24 - Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

1 Jn. 5:10 - Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son.

Jn. 17:20-23 - I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.

Jn. 7:29 - Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Eph. 1:13 - In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Gal. 3:2 -
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Gal. 3:14 -
in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

I'm aware that there are also a lot of verses that show that water baptism was used - and I think that water baptism is an important part of obedience. However, it's the baptism of the Holy Spirit that's important, the thing that saves us -

Lk. 3:16 -
John answered and said to them all, “As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Thank you.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Oddly Enough, he theoretically presented the 345 AD Creed of Same Essence between Father/Son, and he is being called a Heretic. What he is saying is factually ALL in this very Creed but Modern Believers of the SAME DOCTRINE, claim he is incorrect and turning Scripture into a new meaning. Actually, it is Modern Day Trinity who has DONE that Very Thing, not Old School, Trinity Doctrine!

No sir he twisted the creeds with his own words.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I am Old School Trinity, 345 AD, SAME ESSENCE, not this Modern Day Heresy!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

No sir he twisted the creeds with his own words.

He presented all the facts because I helped him, because I saw he was doing it incorrectly. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME?

 

[Snacker]

Now, I have answered your question. So, you can answer my questions.

He asked you five times and you consistently gave him a red x. Why did it take you so long to answer a simple question?

 

[evyaniy]

1 Timothy 3:16

And without controversy great is the mystery of holiness: YAH was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[Snacker]

2Co 12:9, And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Remember those very words regarding people who disagree with you rather than referring to such people as natural men unable to receive things from the Spirit of God.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

No sir he twisted the creeds with his own words.

BTW, if I am Wrong about him, my bad, in Advance, just in case

But I did rearrange his thoughts and he made it seem he saw it as I did. So, I just think some are misunderstanding him, or, I am

 

[montana123]

Here is how I define the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15).

The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

(For God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24).)

The Holy Ghost being distinct from the Father in that He has lived the human life of Christ and therefore has an experiential understanding of humanity.

The Son being distinct from the Father and the Holy Ghost in that He is come in flesh (while the Father and the Holy Ghost also dwell in the Person of the Son, Colossians 2:9).

I believe that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); which does not make it impossible that He is pre-existent.

For He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist outside of time.

For in the Bible codes of Genesis 1 it can be determined that there are ten dimensions in reality. The risen and ascended Son fills all ten. So, He is far above the fourth dimension; which is time. Therefore Jesus exists outside of time.

And because He exists outside of time, His existence extends into eternity past.

Thus, the Father created the worlds through Jesus Christ; since Christ existed in the beginning;

While the beginning of His life (as the Son in flesh) happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

Some have tried to define this theology as not being the Trinity by giving it the label of "Coexistent Modalism".

I think that such is a slander on the doctrine.

I developed this doctrine as an emphasis on the Oneness of God in the Trinity, as a response to mormon theology; which has also infiltrated the minds of some who call themselves Trinitarians; that there are three beings who are God;

i.e. that the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost.

I would declare that they are the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) and therefore, also, in a specific sense, the same Person.

While they are also three distinct Persons according to the beginning statements of this post.

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

When Jesus said Father in to your hands I commend my spirit it was not the Holy Spirit, but the spirit of a human, which all spirits go back to God who gave them regardless if the person is saved or not if you looking at it from that viewpoint.

The Holy Spirit is an omnipresent Spirit which He does not have to move so the Spirit could not come forth from Jesus for the Spirit is already there.

Like Jesus come in flesh which He does not have the Spirit that moves around with Him for there cannot be a double portion of the Spirit in one place, and a space that is empty of the Spirit.

But Jesus walks through the Spirit and wherever He is at the Spirit is there the same as the saints.

That is how Jesus can be God manifest in the flesh for the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God for He cannot be separated, and Jesus walks through the Spirit and wherever He is at the Spirit is there and the Spirit in Jesus is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God, so it is not a tiny portion of the Spirit moving around with Jesus, but He is moving through the omnipresent Spirit of God that cannot be separated.

If you know what I mean.

There are some things that seem to go against a trinity.

Why was Jesus conceived of the Holy Spirit the third person of the trinity, and does not say God the Son, for it should be God the Son that caused the conception in Mary.

The Bible says but to us there is but one God the Father, and in another place one God and Father of all, that is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Why does the Bible only attribute the Father as God.

Which the Bible says the Son shall be called the everlasting Father but how can that be.

They say the Son has no beginning as God but the term Son means to be begotten or else the term has no meaning.

If Jesus has no beginning then how is He a Son.

And begotten eternally is a meaningless term for people that want to justify Jesus having no beginning but being called a Son.

How can you be begotten eternally for if you were begotten you have a beginning.

Jesus said baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Jesus said He came in His Father's name, and manifest the Father's name, and declared the Father's name, so the Father's name is Jesus.

The Bible says the Son inherited the name Jesus from His Father, which the Father's name is Jesus so the Son's name is Jesus.

The Bible says the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

It appears that the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is Jesus.

Which Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles, were baptized in Jesus' name in the book of Acts.

The Old Testament says that God created Adam in His image.

The New Testament says Adam was made in the image of Christ.

The image of God is the image of Christ.

God made Adam in the image that He would show up in the future and that is an innocent nature in flesh.

So the let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus for He is part of that image, so it makes more sense that the us is God the Father, and the Son, the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus is at the right hand of God.

God's right hand represents power, wisdom, and salvation.

Jesus said all power is given unto me in heaven and Earth.

The Bible says there is one God, and mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

The Bible says there is one throne in heaven, and one who sits on that throne, which is the throne of God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

David said the LORD said unto my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.

For the Son must reign for He is the mediator until all His enemies are conquered, and then the Son shall submit to the Father that God may be all in all.

So the Son being at the right hand means is a temporary role, and means God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power until His enemies are conquered, and then the Son shall stop being at the right hand that God may be all in all.

There is only one throne in heaven, and Jesus is not sitting on a throne next to the Father.

The only person we will see in heaven is Jesus which He told Philip that is you have seen me then you have seen the Father, and the words that I speak are not my own but the Father that dwells in me He does the works.

The Bible says the Son shall deliver up the Church to the Father and in another place Jesus will present the Church to Himself.

These are some things that seem to go against a trinity.

 

[CS1]

There is one name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved (Jesus Christ of Nazareth); and therefore, if the name is not acknowledged, salvation does not occur.

While there is salvation in water baptism in Jesus' Name (1 Peter 3:20-21, Ezekiel 36:25-27, Romans 6:1-4; Acts 2:38-39).

And in allowing for salvation through Matthew 28:19 baptism, I am trying to be lenient.

"In the name" means =by HIS Authority, you need to learn the English meaning and terms. Jesus said I am the only way, the only truth, and the only life. No goes to the Father but by me. John 14:6

 

[CS1]

Beside the point. The point is that since the "Trinity" is not mentioned, the Bible cannot say that believing in the Trinity is essential for salvation.

I believe in the Trinity, personally.

I am certainly NOT mocking it.

No one has said you must believe in the Trinity; what we are saying is the Concept is well seen in the scriptures. What are saying is we must approach the Eternal Godhead reverently and humbly. No one can fully comprehend the Godhead. If you think you can, you are wrong. I don't believe you accept the concept of the Trinity because your words are Oness, and you have been playing both sides of the coin. I will leave you alone because to are trying to be subtle.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

"In the name" means =by HIS Authority, you need to learn the English meaning and terms. Jesus said I am the only way, the only truth, and the only life. No goes to the Father but by me. John 14:6

18 And Yeshua came up to them and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

 

[evyaniy]

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

When Jesus said Father in to your hands I commend my spirit it was not the Holy Spirit, but the spirit of a human, which all spirits go back to God who gave them regardless if the person is saved or not if you looking at it from that viewpoint.

The Holy Spirit is an omnipresent Spirit which He does not have to move so the Spirit could not come forth from Jesus for the Spirit is already there.

Like Jesus come in flesh which He does not have the Spirit that moves around with Him for there cannot be a double portion of the Spirit in one place, and a space that is empty of the Spirit.

But Jesus walks through the Spirit and wherever He is at the Spirit is there the same as the saints.

That is how Jesus can be God manifest in the flesh for the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God for He cannot be separated, and Jesus walks through the Spirit and wherever He is at the Spirit is there and the Spirit in Jesus is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God, so it is not a tiny portion of the Spirit moving around with Jesus, but He is moving through the omnipresent Spirit of God that cannot be separated.

If you know what I mean.

There are some things that seem to go against a trinity.

Why was Jesus conceived of the Holy Spirit the third person of the trinity, and does not say God the Son, for it should be God the Son that caused the conception in Mary.

The Bible says but to us there is but one God the Father, and in another place one God and Father of all, that is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Why does the Bible only attribute the Father as God.

Which the Bible says the Son shall be called the everlasting Father but how can that be.

They say the Son has no beginning as God but the term Son means to be begotten or else the term has no meaning.

If Jesus has no beginning then how is He a Son.

And begotten eternally is a meaningless term for people that want to justify Jesus having no beginning but being called a Son.

How can you be begotten eternally for if you were begotten you have a beginning.

Jesus said baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Jesus said He came in His Father's name, and manifest the Father's name, and declared the Father's name, so the Father's name is Jesus.

The Bible says the Son inherited the name Jesus from His Father, which the Father's name is Jesus so the Son's name is Jesus.

The Bible says the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

It appears that the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is Jesus.

Which Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles, were baptized in Jesus' name in the book of Acts.

The Old Testament says that God created Adam in His image.

The New Testament says Adam was made in the image of Christ.

The image of God is the image of Christ.

God made Adam in the image that He would show up in the future and that is an innocent nature in flesh.

So the let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus for He is part of that image, so it makes more sense that the us is God the Father, and the Son, the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus is at the right hand of God.

God's right hand represents power, wisdom, and salvation.

Jesus said all power is given unto me in heaven and Earth.

The Bible says there is one God, and mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

The Bible says there is one throne in heaven, and one who sits on that throne, which is the throne of God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

David said the LORD said unto my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.

For the Son must reign for He is the mediator until all His enemies are conquered, and then the Son shall submit to the Father that God may be all in all.

So the Son being at the right hand means is a temporary role, and means God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power until His enemies are conquered, and then the Son shall stop being at the right hand that God may be all in all.

There is only one throne in heaven, and Jesus is not sitting on a throne next to the Father.

The only person we will see in heaven is Jesus which He told Philip that is you have seen me then you have seen the Father, and the words that I speak are not my own but the Father that dwells in me He does the works.

The Bible says the Son shall deliver up the Church to the Father and in another place Jesus will present the Church to Himself.

These are some things that seem to go against a trinity.

Without agreeing or disagreeing, these are excellent points and questions and Scripture references. Thank you for sharing these.

 

[CS1]

18 And Yeshua came up to them and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

your point?


When Peter and the Apostles baptized or preached or healed, they did so by the Authority of the Lord Jesus Christ.

This has been the question asked not only of the Apostles but also of the Lord Jesus " By what authority do you do these things?"

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

When Jesus said Father in to your hands I commend my spirit it was not the Holy Spirit, but the spirit of a human, which all spirits go back to God who gave them regardless if the person is saved or not if you looking at it from that viewpoint.

The Holy Spirit is an omnipresent Spirit which He does not have to move so the Spirit could not come forth from Jesus for the Spirit is already there.

Like Jesus come in flesh which He does not have the Spirit that moves around with Him for there cannot be a double portion of the Spirit in one place, and a space that is empty of the Spirit.

But Jesus walks through the Spirit and wherever He is at the Spirit is there the same as the saints.

That is how Jesus can be God manifest in the flesh for the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God for He cannot be separated, and Jesus walks through the Spirit and wherever He is at the Spirit is there and the Spirit in Jesus is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God, so it is not a tiny portion of the Spirit moving around with Jesus, but He is moving through the omnipresent Spirit of God that cannot be separated.

If you know what I mean.

There are some things that seem to go against a trinity.

Why was Jesus conceived of the Holy Spirit the third person of the trinity, and does not say God the Son, for it should be God the Son that caused the conception in Mary.

The Bible says but to us there is but one God the Father, and in another place one God and Father of all, that is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Why does the Bible only attribute the Father as God.

Which the Bible says the Son shall be called the everlasting Father but how can that be.

They say the Son has no beginning as God but the term Son means to be begotten or else the term has no meaning.

If Jesus has no beginning then how is He a Son.

And begotten eternally is a meaningless term for people that want to justify Jesus having no beginning but being called a Son.

How can you be begotten eternally for if you were begotten you have a beginning.

Jesus said baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Jesus said He came in His Father's name, and manifest the Father's name, and declared the Father's name, so the Father's name is Jesus.

The Bible says the Son inherited the name Jesus from His Father, which the Father's name is Jesus so the Son's name is Jesus.

The Bible says the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

It appears that the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is Jesus.

Which Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles, were baptized in Jesus' name in the book of Acts.

The Old Testament says that God created Adam in His image.

The New Testament says Adam was made in the image of Christ.

The image of God is the image of Christ.

God made Adam in the image that He would show up in the future and that is an innocent nature in flesh.

So the let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus for He is part of that image, so it makes more sense that the us is God the Father, and the Son, the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus is at the right hand of God.

God's right hand represents power, wisdom, and salvation.

Jesus said all power is given unto me in heaven and Earth.

The Bible says there is one God, and mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

The Bible says there is one throne in heaven, and one who sits on that throne, which is the throne of God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

David said the LORD said unto my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.

For the Son must reign for He is the mediator until all His enemies are conquered, and then the Son shall submit to the Father that God may be all in all.

So the Son being at the right hand means is a temporary role, and means God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power until His enemies are conquered, and then the Son shall stop being at the right hand that God may be all in all.

There is only one throne in heaven, and Jesus is not sitting on a throne next to the Father.

The only person we will see in heaven is Jesus which He told Philip that is you have seen me then you have seen the Father, and the words that I speak are not my own but the Father that dwells in me He does the works.

The Bible says the Son shall deliver up the Church to the Father and in another place Jesus will present the Church to Himself.

These are some things that seem to go against a trinity.

THIS!

This indeed Represents the 345 AD Creed of "SAME ESSENCE"

Which also is why: I am Old School Trinity, 345 AD, SAME ESSENCE, not this Modern Day Heresy!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

your point?


When Peter and the Apostles baptized or preached or healed, they did so by the Authority of the Lord Jesus Christ.

This has been the question asked not only of the Apostles but also of the Lord Jesus " By what authority do you do these things?"

Just added the Scripture where Jesus reveals He as All Authority, like you were doing with the Verses You offered.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Thank you.

Without agreeing or disagreeing, these are excellent points and questions and Scripture references. Thank you for sharing these.

Just what I was praying and hoping for (not disagreement, but for) words of gratefulness and encouragement on this wonderful Sunday day of worship of
The LORD And Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Thanks, @evyaniy ♫ 😇 ↑

 

[Snacker]

Oddly Enough, he theoretically presented the 345 AD Creed of Same Essence between Father/Son, and he is being called a Heretic. What he is saying is factually ALL in this very Creed but Modern Believers of the SAME DOCTRINE, claim he is incorrect and turning Scripture into a new meaning. Actually, it is Modern Day Trinity who has DONE that Very Thing, not Old School, Trinity Doctrine!

@CS1 asked heartwashed the same question five times and he consistently sidestepped the question with a red x. That’s proof positive heartwash knows he’s spouting heresy. No wonder he cries cyberspace martyrdom.

 

[HeIsHere]

Agreed. Nor is God ever described as "three Persons of the same Divine Essence."


So Jesus was wrong when he said he was a man who learned from God (John 8:40), and when he said his Father is "the only true God" (John 17:3)? Paul was wrong when he said for us there is one God, the Father (1 Cor 8:6)?


It's a false paradigm to try and associate where Jesus said "ego eimi" with Exo 3:14. They are simply words of self identification. Jesus was identifying himself as the Messiah. What we must believe is that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31). If we do not believe that Jesus is the Christ, we will die in our sins.


Jesus spoke for God, with the authority and backing of God. In that sense he was making himself God.


An alternate translation of Heb 1:8 is "Your throne is God." The power behing Jesus Christ is God.
Concerning Heb 1:9, God does not have a God, but Jesus Christ does.

I'm not going to say any more. I know the rules of this forum. A person can believe whatever they want (nobody can stop them..), but if a person argues too much for a position the admins of this forum have deemed "heresy," they'll be banned. There are lots of other things to talk about... Later.

VARob your thoughts much appreciated in many topics on this discussion board, great insight in so many areas, now if only I can get you to reconsider your eschatology, it is amazing how even those tricky passages/timelines become harmonized.

Be blessed.

 

[HeIsHere]

I am Old School Trinity, 345 AD, SAME ESSENCE, not this Modern Day Heresy!

Same essence is essential otherwise we have polytheism.