context....CONtext.........CONTEXT

[SACREDWARRIOR]

Hello Gang,
I read through posts & listen to podcasts typically on the subject of ESCHATOLOGY (End Times).....this has been a fascination of mine since youth....(im 61)...
I've ran through the gamut of positions...and find myself currently in the PRE-WRATH camp. somewhere between traditional and AMILLENNIAL . alongside of that I have recently questioned the common description/understanding of the 7th week......as I have watched and studied It occurred to me that nowhere in the NEW or OLD TESTAMENT was a 7 year period mentioned, save for the, the Original prophetic utterance through Jeremiah & repeated in Daniel.....
All common positions, PRE - MID -PRE WRATH - POST , consider an end time event period of 7 years.......Yet the Bible when speaking to the close of humanity, speaks only of 3 & 1/2 years.
I studied and learned directly under the author teachers, ROBERT VANKAMPEN, MARVIN ROSENTHAL, CHARLES COOPER, ETC...
through each of these teachers and their writings, there was a prominent teaching on how to understand scripture in general, pivotal prio to examining the subject of eschatology... this featured 2 primary tenets ...READ SCRIPTURE USING THE GRAMMATICAL RULE...NORMAL NATURAL CUSTOMARY SENSE OF UNDERSTANDING LANGUAGE......Which opened the word to me in a way I had not seen previously....
The second major understanding was CONTEXT...... TYPICALLY UNDERSTOOD AS THE SURROUNDING VERSES OR CHAPTER(S) NEAR the text in question, however Bob V, further maintained to investigate the whole of scripture on any given topic or study before drawing conclusions.
using this primary understanding, I came to realize 7 years is not written in the eschatological pages of scripture.........but what of the prophetic decree of Jeremiah & Daniel.......?
All positions divide the 7th year into 2 equal sections of 3.5 YRS, and have them running concurrent.......BUT!!!!!!!!!!!! what if they are not supposed to be concurrent? what if there was a PARENTHETICAL GAP TO BRING INTO SALVATION THE GENTILES......most believe in a GAP but is their understanding of the gap correct! In the clearest teaching of end times THE OLIVET DISCOURSE, we see a designation of 2 primary distinctions , BEGINNING OF SORROWS & TRIBULATION PERIOD INCLUDING "GREAT TRIBULATION"...what of the 1st half or period.....is there a peace treaty or covenant to indicated it, is there some miraculous sign from heaven , how would christians know when it began? I know the NORMAL descriptive EARTHQUAKES ,DISEASE, FAMINE ETC... but those things arguably have been occurring since the fall of man in Eden.....
What if the COMMA (,) was placed the wrong position a small JOT TITTLE causing the confusion....
SOMETHING TO PONDER!!!!!!
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS!!
Clarence

 

[Omegatime]

Sounds like you are in the middle of nowhere. You mentioned the Oivet discourse--this has nothing to do with the church age but Israel alone. A lot of scripture deals with last 7 years.

 

[Nehemiah6]

..I came to realize 7 years is not written in the eschatological pages of scripture...

Of course it is written in Scripture in Daniel 9:24-27. You have the terms "weeks" and "week". Those are not ordinary weeks but heptads of years. Therefore 70 weeks = 70 x 7 = 490 years. And one week = 7 years. We also know that 42 months are assigned to the Antichrist. That is equal to 3 1/2 years, which is exactly half of 7. Now 483 years cover the period from the decree of Cyrus to the crucifixion of Christ (when "Messiah was cut off, but not for Himself"). So 490-483 = 7 remaining years in order to fulfil what is in verse 24. This will be in the future.

 

[Grace911]

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

There is a logical understanding most eschatologist overlook and without the correct sabbatical and jubilee cycles, nearly impossible to reason.

Moses was born in 1459 BC. He was almost 80 years old at the burning bush. Moses and the Israelites/strangers also arrived at Mt. Sinai in 1379 BC and on the very first Shavuot/Pentecost recorded they are given the Covenant of Marriage contract.

The going forth of the commandment = Moses speaks with the LORD at the burning bush (The year is
Exo 3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb.
Exo 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Exo 3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Exo 3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
Exo 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exo 3:7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows;
Exo 3:8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.
Exo 3:9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them.
Exo 3:10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt.

After the exodus there was 7 Jubilee cycles (7 x 49 = 343 years.) The Mt. Sinai Covenant was 1379 BC PLUS 343 years = 1036 BC.
King David in 1043 BC was annointed at a very young age (maybe 3 or 4 years old - not uncommon at that time that children that young were the Shepherds and then annointed again in 1010 BC and 970 BC). And in 1010 BC King David begins to rule after King Saul.

Add to King David's annointing as King in 1010 BC ruling over just the Jews and in 970 BC over all 12 tribes and after 7 "weeks" (Jubilee cycles) PLUS 62 "weeks" (Jubilee cycles) 62 x 49 = 3038 years.
3038 years Minus 1043 BC Minus 1 year for no "zero" year between BC and CE = 1995/1996.

The 120th Jubilee cycle (70 Jubilee cycles countig since David's first annointing) falls 1996.
Can you see it? 1995 was the 49th year of the 119th Jubilee cycle or 7 + 62 = 69 cycles (69 x 49 = 3381 years)

One more time...... 3381 - 343 years (7 x 49) PLUS 3038 years (62 x 49) = 69 Jubilee cycles (69 x 49 = 3381 years.)

I recommend a few tools to help understand.
1) 45 proofs of the sabbitical and jubilee cycles (Yes! We can know that Adam was year "0" 3836 BC.)
2) Genesis 6:3 nd the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
3) 120 Jubilee cycles x 49 = 5880 years (Adam created in 3836 BC PLUS 2023 CE (<We are Here) = 5859 years of 5880 years. The 120th Jubilee cycle ends 2044 CE and the 7th Millennium begins 2045 CE.
4) 45 Sabbatical PROOFS with Documentation
5) Sabbatical and Jubilee Charts from Adam to end of 6th Millennium
6) I use NASA charts of moon stages with an app called Quick Phase Pro v. 4.0 which I had to purchase ($40 ish)
7) You can use TorahCalendar.com but beware they go by the Spring Equinox.
8) You can use Hillel II Calendar but beware they go by postponements for Feast of Trumpets to avoid have certain feasts fall on Friday or Sunday. They are no longer needed, as we have actual witnesses in Jerusalem to sight the new sliver on day 29 and day 30 (The Hebrew idiom is "No man knows the day or hour" comes from not knowing when the moon will be sighted.)

If you like video and teachers teaching the above, I recommend Sightedmoon on Youtube. It goes back as far as 2005 in teachings.

Shalom, End Time seekers.

Psalms 90:12 So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.

 

[oyster67]

Yet the Bible when speaking to the close of humanity, speaks only of 3 & 1/2 years.

There are only 3 1/2 years between the time antichrist breaks His covenant and desecrates the temple and the Second Coming, but the White-Rider-First-Seal and the Peace Covenant happen before this, during the first 3 1/2 years. Revelation makes this pretty clear. We differentiate the second half from the first by calling it the "Great Tribulation".

 

[GaryA]

There are only 3 1/2 years between the time antichrist breaks His covenant and desecrates the temple and the Second Coming, but the White-Rider-First-Seal and the Peace Covenant happen before this, during the first 3 1/2 years. Revelation makes this pretty clear. We differentiate the second half from the first by calling it the "Great Tribulation".

How does all of this align with what Jesus called 'great tribulation' in Matthew 24?

 

[oyster67]

How does all of this align with what Jesus called 'great tribulation' in Matthew 24?

Lets have a look-see...

Matthew 24:3
“And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

Pretty obvious what timeframe we are looking at.



Matthew 24:14
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”

Lots of things have happened up to this point, and the Gospel is still being preached.



Matthew 24:15
“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand”

Yes, I understand that Antiochus Epiphanes did this before Jesus day, but Jesus is talking about the future.



Matthew 24:16
“Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:”

This is prophesied of in Revelation. They shall be led to the mountain fortress of Petra near the end of the 7-year Tribulation and be kept by God.



Matthew 24:21
“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”

We call the latter half of the 7-Year Trib the "Great Trib" (for obvious reason).



Matthew 24
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Obviously, the Second Coming.



Matthew 24:34
“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”

Now if we only knew who "this generation" refers to. I hope it is yours and mine.



It then goes on to describe some clues, but emphasizes that an exact date shall not be revealed.

 

[GaryA]

Matthew 24:21
“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”

We call the latter half of the 7-Year Trib the "Great Trib" (for obvious reason).

If Jesus called all of it (all of what 'great tribulation' represents) by that phrase, why would we not do the same?

Is it so that a "separated" time span (separated from what Jesus is referring to) could be invented?

 

[GaryA]

Matthew 24:15
“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand”

Yes, I understand that Antiochus Epiphanes did this before Jesus day, but Jesus is talking about the future.

Yes, the real actual bona fide AoD occurred in 167 B.C. - and, will not occur again.

Sorry brother, but you are incorrect about Jesus talking about the future.

( whoso readeth, let him understand: )

Do you understand the meaning of this?

 

[GaryA]

Lets have a look-see...

I can readily identify with this 'entry' statement...

 

[GaryA]

Matthew 24:16
“Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:”

This is prophesied of in Revelation. They shall be led to the mountain fortress of Petra near the end of the 7-year Tribulation and be kept by God.

Only those "in Judaea"...? Will there not be anyone else?

No - this happened circa 70 A.D. (one time, never again)

 

[oyster67]

If Jesus called all of it (all of what 'great tribulation' represents) by that phrase, why would we not do the same?

We do. We call your 3 1/2 years "The Great Trbulation". It is the greatest time of tribulation the world has ever seen.

Is it so that a "separated" time span (separated from what Jesus is referring to) could be invented?

The first 3 1/2 years was not invented by Oyster. It was revealed to John on the Isle of Patmos. The time of the Four Horsemen and the False Treaty that occur after the rapture but before the Great Tribulation. The Seal Judgements begin before the Great Tribulation.

 

[oyster67]

I can readily identify with this 'entry' statement...

It's a start.

 

[oyster67]

Yes, the real actual bona fide AoD occurred in 167 B.C. - and, will not occur again.

Sorry brother, but you are incorrect about Jesus talking about the future.

( whoso readeth, let him understand: )

Do you understand the meaning of this?

I understand what v3 says loudly and clearly...

Matthew 24:3
“And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

Pretty obvious what timeframe we are looking at.

 

[oyster67]

No - this happened circa 70 A.D. (one time, never again)

This irrational demand on your part seems to be a stumbling block. Do you go as far as to think we are living in the Millennium right now??? Did you go up in the Rapture??? Did you get your glorified body??? Did you attend the Wedding??? Are you nuts???

 

[GaryA]

We do. We call your 3 1/2 years "The Great Trbulation". It is the greatest time of tribulation the world has ever seen.

The only 3-1/2 years "I have" ('your'?) is the Two Witnesses - which occurs after the end of the 'great tribulation' as referred to by Jesus in Matthew 24.

The first 3 1/2 years was not invented by Oyster. It was revealed to John on the Isle of Patmos. The time of the Four Horsemen and the False Treaty that occur after the rapture but before the Great Tribulation. The Seal Judgements begin before the Great Tribulation.

Not even going to get into this - more "correction" than I have time for or want to spend on it at this time...

 

[GaryA]

I understand what v3 says loudly and clearly...

That is not enough - every single word in the Olivet Discourse is not talking about the End Times Scenario. In fact, collectively, the prophecy is over a span of ~2000 years and not a "last-minute" 7-year span of time.

 

[GaryA]

This irrational demand on your part seems to be a stumbling block. Do you go as far as to think we are living in the Millennium right now??? Did you go up in the Rapture??? Did you get your glorified body??? Did you attend the Wedding??? Are you nuts???

No. No. No. No. No.

Matthew 24:15-20 / Mark 13:14-18 / Luke 21:20-23 are all referring to the very same exact thing at the very same exact place at the very same exact time. And, it was fulfilled circa 70 A.D.

 

[oyster67]

That is not enough

No. No. No. No. No.

We've all been there, Gary.
Learn and grow.
We love you.

 

[Cameron143]

This irrational demand on your part seems to be a stumbling block. Do you go as far as to think we are living in the Millennium right now??? Did you go up in the Rapture??? Did you get your glorified body??? Did you attend the Wedding??? Are you nuts???

Sometimes I feel like a nut. Sometimes I don't.