Zionism among the Evangelicals is contradicted by Scripture

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rogerg

Well-known member
#521
Jul 13, 2021
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notmyown said:
oh dear... hope i don't upset anyone...

For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His prized possession out of all peoples on the face of the earth. (Deut 7:6)

but see what Peter says?

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. (1 Pet 2:9)

with apostolic authority and under the inspiration of the Spirit Peter tells us this. is he writing to Jews? i don't think so, because he goes on to say:

Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. (v10)

it's not a replacement!! it's an addition. :)
believing Jews and believing gentiles; all one people of God.

For all the promises of God are “Yes” in Christ. And so through Him, our “Amen” is spoken to the glory of God. (2 Cor 1:20)

i take this to mean ALL God's promises are fulfilled in Christ, and received in Christ. no other way.
please don't kick me out, because i love you all so very much.
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You are absolutely correct! And in addition, God divorced the nation of Israel due to her following of, and spiritual fornication with, other gods. According to the law, once divorced, the divorced wife cannot be remarried by her prior husband.

What most miss regarding God's promises to Abraham, is that they were of two types: 1) the temporal which were His promises to
earthly Israel; and 2) the eternal which were His promises to spiritual Israel- the Israel of God. The ones given to earthly Israel were dependent upon satisfying their part of the covenant; the ones to eternal Israel, were solely dependent upon God alone and not man.

[Jer 3:6-9 KJV]
6 The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen [that] which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
7 And I said after she had done all these [things], Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw [it].
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.

[Deu 24:4 KJV] 4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that [is] abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
#522
Jan 17, 2023
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#522
rogerg said:
You are absolutely correct! And in addition, God divorced the nation of Israel due to her following of, and spiritual fornication with, other gods. According to the law, once divorced, the divorced wife cannot be remarried by her prior husband.
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Then someone should have told Paul. Or God Himself for that matter.


I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew.

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

rogerg said:
What most miss regarding God's promises to Abraham, is that they were of two types: 1) the temporal which were His promises to
earthly Israel; and 2) the eternal which were His promises to spiritual Israel- the Israel of God. The ones given to earthly Israel were dependent upon satisfying their part of the covenant; the ones to eternal Israel, were solely dependent upon God alone and not man.
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Well most would miss it because the Bible says the promises were everlasting, and He told the following generations the exact same thing. The literal promises He made to the Jews He will keep. The covenant was unconditional and everlasting. Scripture says so. I would hope everyone here reads the Word for themselves, if so they will find what I am saying is true.
 
R

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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#523
ThereRoseaLamb said:
I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew.

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
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God's people (elect) are the true Jews -- the elect - people taken out of all kindred, ethnic groups, races, religions, etc, chosen by God - not the Jews of the nation of Israel just because they are Jews from the nation of Israel. His everlasting calling was/is to the elect and that is irrevocable.

[Rom 9:6-8 KJV]
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

[Gal 3:28-29 KJV]
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
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Dec 20, 2017
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#524
rogerg said:
God's people (elect) are the true Jews -- the elect - people taken out of all kindred, ethnic groups, races, religions, etc, chosen by God - not the Jews of the nation of Israel just because they are Jews from the nation of Israel. His everlasting calling was/is to the elect and that is irrevocable.

[Rom 9:6-8 KJV]
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

[Gal 3:28-29 KJV]
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
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Do we apply the Bible in whole or in part? Do we use it just to back up our preferred theology? NO.
For a complete picture we must take the chastisement of Israel to it's conclusion.

Just think how embarrassed you will be when Israel repents. And you- the branch is seen to have been arrogant toward them - the root.

Brush Paul's strong warning aside at your own peril.
"provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off"
Have a heart for Israel because it is God's will for The Church.

Jer 46:28
Do not be afraid, Jacob my servant,
for I am with you,’ declares the Lord.
‘Though I completely destroy all the nations
among which I scatter you,
I will not completely destroy you.
I will discipline you but only in due measure;
I will not let you go entirely unpunished.’
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#525
Dec 20, 2017
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#525
Jer 30:11

I am with you and will save you,”
declares the Lord.
“Though I completely destroy all the nations
among which I scatter you,
I will not completely destroy you.
I will discipline you but only in due measure;
I will not let you go entirely unpunished.”​
 
T

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
#526
Jan 17, 2023
4,770
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#526
Lucy-Pevensie said:
Do we apply the Bible in whole or in part? Do we use it just to back up our preferred theology? NO.
For a complete picture we must take the chastisement of Israel to it's conclusion.

Just think how embarrassed you will be when Israel repents. And you- the branch is seen to have been arrogant toward them - the root.

Brush Paul's strong warning aside at your own peril.
"provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off"
Have a heart for Israel because it is God's will for The Church.

Jer 46:28
Do not be afraid, Jacob my servant,
for I am with you,’ declares the Lord.
‘Though I completely destroy all the nations
among which I scatter you,
I will not completely destroy you.
I will discipline you but only in due measure;
I will not let you go entirely unpunished.’
Click to expand...

Not a thing can be added to this. Just perfectly said.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#527
Jul 13, 2021
3,655
568
113
#527
Lucy-Pevensie said:
Do we apply the Bible in whole or in part? Do we use it just to back up our preferred theology? NO.
For a complete picture we must take the chastisement of Israel to it's conclusion.

Just think how embarrassed you will be when Israel repents. And you- the branch is seen to have been arrogant toward them - the root.

Brush Paul's strong warning aside at your own peril.
"provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off"
Have a heart for Israel because it is God's will for The Church.

Jer 46:28
Do not be afraid, Jacob my servant,
for I am with you,’ declares the Lord.
‘Though I completely destroy all the nations
among which I scatter you,
I will not completely destroy you.
I will discipline you but only in due measure;
I will not let you go entirely unpunished.’
Click to expand...
Did you miss this?

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

So are you actually saying that all Jews starting from Abraham until the end of time will become saved, because that would have to be the case if your understanding is correct? Or, if you think otherwise, then explain how you perceive/define Israel, because all of Israel, according to the Bible, must eventually become saved with no exceptions. If anything less than the full nation of Israel, then that can't be the correct Israel. Remember, God's blessing went through Isaac (Abraham's son), but not through Ishmael (also Abraham's son). Therefore, God's eternal blessing to Abraham was not/could not be to his physical seed or both would have had to be included not just Isaac. This means that His blessing was not for the nation of Israel as a whole, even as verse 8 above so informs. Obviously, this doesn't mean no Jews will become saved over time because some will be, but not because they are of the nation of Israel which is comprised of the physical seed of Abraham.
There is, however, an Israel where all of its people will be/must be saved, from the beginning of time until the end, which Israel alone, satisfies all of the requirements of the Bible for being the Israel that is recipient of God's blessings.
That Israel is spiritual Israel, the Israel of God.

[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
 
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