problem related to praying in tongues
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Yup the 'ol "Priming the pump" thing is a COMMON HERESY in the Assemblies of God (and probably other Pentecostal groups as well).
It almost guarantees that the tongues that result, will be phony.
In my case (a couple of weeks after being prayed for to receive the "Baptism in the Holy Spirit" (as the AG calls it) in an FGBMFI meeting in the '70s, SUddenly there was an odd word in my mind, and when I spoke it, more words followed, and I was "speaking in tongues" spontaneously. 50 years later I still am, BUT NEVER in "Message to a meeting" format. I've never been "Burdened" to do that - only to Interpret.
Quick story: There was a fellow in a AG church up in Ohio, who could be depended on to break out in tongues EVERY SERVICE, at the same point in the service (toward the end of the singing). And EVERY UTTERANCE was the same. Same words, same length, same order, same, same.
SO, I wrote him off as a fake.
But after I began speaking in tongues myself, in one service shortly after, the same fellow went off with his utterance - and the Holy Spirit burdened ME to INTERPRET for the first time, so I did, speaking the words as they flowed through.
And While I'll admit to being a little skeptical now and again, I have stopped being as legalistically judgemental of other people's giftings. IN MOST CASES, however, I regard "Tongues in meetings" as kind of a "trumpet sound" to alert the people that An interpretation (which has meaning) will follow.
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Niki7
Guest
Don't twist my words. That simply makes your error(s) even more obvious.,
Scripture is fine and instructional and we can live by it. The way you are 'using' scripture, being selective and deliberately ignoring portions that do not support your worn out excuses is what is troublesome.
Did you just redact those portions that do not agree with you? Considering how you twist what I actually said, it would seem no trouble for you to do the same with the Bible as so many do.
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Niki7
Guest
Tongues are used in the church by believers FOR believers. Don't quote anything from I Corinthians if you just ignore the fact that if out loud, they should be interpreted or just don't pray out loud. Also, they are for the building up of the individual BELIEVER.
The issue is cessationists glibly dismissing all that is written about the gift of tongues.
The issue is cessationists glibly dismissing all that is written about the gift of tongues.
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Niki7
Guest
I know you didn't ask me and I use Got Questions myself sometimes, but they believe tongues have ceased. They refer to the perfect, as the Bible, as do so many cessationists.
Since I've been in and around Historic Pentecostal, and CHarismatic people in groups, and individually for the last 50+ years, I doubt if there's ANY error/heresy/wierdness, or just plain stupidity that I haven't seen at one time or another (never seen pew runners yet, just aisle runners).
The "Oneness Pentecostals" (United PEntecostal CHurch International - UPCI) are one bunch that teach that if you don't jabber in tongues, you ain't saved.
I said MAJOR pentecostal groups.
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Niki7
Guest
Please sir, I am not acquainted with them? Seriously, I think I have come across maybe one person believing that?
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Niki7
Guest
Actually, now that you mention it, the person I came across that believes if you don't speak in tongues (in the forum here) also believes in water regeneration. IMO, if you are so firm on one error, you will continue in error and probably get worse with what you believe.
ANd since both the "TONGUE", and the "Interpretation" are gifted utterances, your "Test" would be totally meaningless. and I know better to even BOTHER with "anecdotal stories".
The issue with Cessasionist is the same as with all of their Doctrines. Cherry
Picking Verses that have a confirmed meaning and then it's removed to become a New MAN MADE TRADITIONAL Gospel based off man's Idealism.
Once you are SEARED in your Minds and Hearts to the place you can remove a Verse and place it elsewhere and then Accept it like GOD just did this, you can go to Factual True Gospel Doctrines and do the Same Thing without ever feeling like you just MANIPULATED God's Word. in fact, the ones moving Scripture around might even feel Embolden and Empowered like they are doing GOD a favor.
It's really sad when a Protestant Group has been together so long and still hasn't gotten any of it Right yet. And they are the Biggest Protestant Group of them all. Running around BLIND!
If a person does not choose to speak in tongues, it will not happen.
So you think it will just "happen"? If you don't choose to do it, and the Spirit does not possess you or make you or cause you to do it, how does it just "happen"?
People speak in tongues according to their free will. If that was not the case, then Paul giving instruction on how it is to be done would be moot.
The Spirit has already chosen that Christians are to do it.
HOw to make a doctrine:
1) Decide what you want to "Prove Biblically"
2) Go through the Scriptures and catalog all the passages that REINFORCE the belief that you want to prove. These are your "Proof texts".
3) Go through the Scriptures, and find all the passages that REFUTE the believe you want to prove. These are your "Problem texts".
4) Invent viable explanations for your "Problem Texts" - Why they don't say what they seem to say / why they don't mean what they seem to mean / why they're not applicable to the situation / why they were for THEM and not for us / etc.
5) construct your DOCTRINE reinforcing it with your "Proof Texts", and defending it with your "Explanations" of the problem texts.
Result: Congratulations, you've got a "DOCTRINE"!!!! You might even be able to built a "Denomination" around it!!!
I am not attaching you or tongues, I come from a deep long history of Pentecostalism. A question/statement:
Most folks who support 'tongues' also support laying on of hands healing. Tongues are easy to fake, having folks rise up and walk not so easy. Our mouths can fake, truth , prophecy, our mouths way to often . We are warned Jas_3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. This may not relate to you, Why does speaking in tongues mean so much to those who push it ? My Grandmother insisted tongues was part of salvation, yet she was not a loving person. 1Cor 13 ... Why do we not see the tongues 'like unto fire' Acts 2:3 those can not be faked very easy. Why do some of the tongues talkers blow gold dust around the room? A few miles north of my home they blew Holy Angels feather through the air conditioning unit. The fakers are why i stepped away from it years ago. JUst wondering your thoughts
Outside of the Gospel Jesus Preached and the Grace Paul Taught, the majority and rest of the Doctrines are ideas from Reading the Word and creating the thoughts in your mind based off Scripture that specifically Benefits your View.
All that means is now you're going to destroy every Verse that comes against your ideas and support every Verse that promotes your View.
Ain't a thing Godly at all being done in that Process.
But how many Protestant Groups, Doctrines, Denominations, Sects within a Group is there?
Ain't NONE of it Godly!!
Most people are just repeating what they have learned from the churches they have attended. Few people go empty-handed or empty-headed.
Getting someone to rise and walk can easily be faked too. A "healer" can do things to temporarily relieve someone's pain and they may get up out of a wheelchair or throw away their crutches. But the real test is whether a person was actually healed or simply had a placebo effect. The history of faith healing is loaded with people who thought they were healed; were told they were healed; but weren't really healed. When you study so-called faith healers, what you see is they stay away from people who have serious problems; and when they do actually try to heal someone with an incurable disease they aren't able to heal them.
William Branham was a popular faith healer from the '50s and '60s. He was famous for his healing revivals in which he would supposedly heal people and tell them they were healed, they just had to believe. By the time they realized they weren't really healed, many died and Branham was long gone. This became such a scandal Branham had to start holding his revivals in foreign countries where he wasn't known.
Scandals like these follow most of the so-called miracle workers. There are a million tricks they use. The real miracle is how they can still get people to believe in them.
William Branham was a popular faith healer from the '50s and '60s. He was famous for his healing revivals in which he would supposedly heal people and tell them they were healed, they just had to believe. By the time they realized they weren't really healed, many died and Branham was long gone. This became such a scandal Branham had to start holding his revivals in foreign countries where he wasn't known.
Scandals like these follow most of the so-called miracle workers. There are a million tricks they use. The real miracle is how they can still get people to believe in them.
In previous discussions about tongues, there were a few (several?) that explicitly stated that if a believer did NOT speak in tongues, they had not received the Spirit. I think they were careful to not specifically SAY that the person wasn't "saved", but implied that IF they were saved, they were some sort of lesser believer, who just didn't understand, or comprehend, or their faith was lacking.
They believed that IF a person was saved, they WOULD speak in tongues, as a sign....
Repeating what they don't fully understand because if it's Godly, everyone will benefit, once it becomes knowledge unto them.
Look at Explaining the Trinity for example. Not a single 1 Example actually makes Sense. but we know what we read so we make these concoctions work in our Favor, even if, we are so wrong it could be harming us..